TonyNesta

Wow, TSR2, very high speed low-level strike aircraft, years ahead of its time.
IIRC, the engines developed for this aircraft were used in Concorde. One of the most advanced aircraft of its day, cancelled in the 60s by Denis Healey I think, due to defence cutbacks.

T

ScoobyDoo555

Lovely plane, the TSR - only seen it once @ RAF Cosford

Shame

andys

There is one on display at Duxsford

[Edited by andys - 1/16/2004 3:39:22 PM]

what would scooby do

Lightning and Vulcam get my vote on the UK side

but also..





and a great classic :-

Nick100

Good choices so far - can't argue.

Vulcan and Lightning for me.
Saw a Vulcan following the M6 north near the Lake District (probably mid/late 70s) looked fantastic and enjoyed the James Bond film with them in (Thunderball).
Saw a Lightning at Plymouth Navy Day (about '75) from the deck of the old Ark Royal (open to the public). The plane just went vertical and disappeared through the high cloud.

Always been fascinated by the SR-71/A-12. I was recently in Richmond, Virginia for a day. Having arrrived at night, couldn't see anything and then when leaving next day, I found about two minutes down the road, there's an air museum with one outside - gutted. Read a book by Ben Riche (sp) called Skunk Works. He used to head it up, but was invovled in the engine intake design for SR-71. Excellent stories of the design/build under Kelly Johnson and stories of operations, plus the other aircraft to be made there.

Helicopters - like the BIG Sikorksy CH-53 picture above - seen a picture also of this heli towing a mine clearing sled behind on about 200m of cable.

I forgot to add - Concorde was fantastic for what it did and the looks - as said earlier - it still looks futuristic. Been on one many times, but only in a hangar - supporting BA - wonderful.

[Edited by Nick100 - 1/16/2004 4:29:26 PM]

^Qwerty^

Nice Read

Quote about the TSR2:


[Edited by ^Qwerty^ - 1/16/2004 4:33:23 PM]

Leslie

It was always a great loss when we lost the TSR2 as well as the projected stol/vtol transport aircraft that Hawkers had on the drawing board. I was doing flight tests on the equipment which was going into the aircraft during its early test flights. We used to hear how it was doing through the MOA net and it was exceeding all its design requirements. I was lucky enough to be taken around the factory at Vickers and see the production line, there were 9 aircraft being built and I wrote my name on the first one's wing! Some hopes!
The No 2 aircraft fuselage was being delivered to Boscombe Down when the lorry driver got it wrong around a corner and it fell off and was damaged. They said he ran away!

It was cancelled of course because LBJ leant on Harold Wilson and threatened him with the destruction of the Pound unless he did. The US wanted to sell the F111 instead and it was a big factor in the decline of our aircraft industry. The Aussies bought the F111 instead and regretted it. Even the US pilots were all of a twitch whenever they flew it.

Les

carl

Well the first one's a MiG 15 (although it might be a 17).
The second one's a MiG 25 -- nearly as fast as an SR71 (Mach 2.5) but with weapons
Not sure about the next one -- MiG 31?

[Edited by carl - 1/16/2004 10:15:08 PM]

Daz34

No it is one of these apparently

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

I seem to remember that (after they had stoped flying) there was/is a vulcan at North Weald that occasionaly was run up and down the runway. But wasn't flown.

Is this a figment of my imagination? Does anyone know if this aircraft plans to fly again?

Steve

what would scooby do

That new mig I posted up is a Mnogofunktsionalny Frontovoi Istrebel or project 142 - latest generation of ruski Air Defence fighters..


My main interest in aviation started off as a kid, ended up working for Marconi doing secret "stuff"

Most interesting plane I ever saw was a Chinese copy of the A10 Tankbuster - twice as heavy, puny engines.. I spent two weeks watching it going up and down a runway in central China - didn't so much as lift a wheel off the tarmac LOL

[Edited by what would scooby do - 1/16/2004 11:24:31 PM]

carl

I don't know if it's still true, but a few years ago there was a Phantom at Duxford that they could only taxi around. Because it was still in active service in some parts of the world, they couldn't fly it because of some sort of arms limitation treaty.

^Qwerty^

Vulcan's that taxi are at Southend and errrr, some place south of Coventry that I can't remember the name of atm.

The aim is to get the one at Bruntingthorpe flying again after allocation of some lottery funds.

I'll believe it when I see it, but fingers crossed.

Sbradley

Apaches?

I'll see your Apache...and raise you a Werewolf



I flew one of these for a while evaluating them for potential export and consulting on some other bits and pieces. They are in use outside Russia but only very discreetly...

We took one of them to Fort Rucker, Alabama, for DAC training against Apaches and got a 9:1 kill ratio against them... and 3:1 against some ANG F-16s

Nasty, nasty piece of kit. Great to fly, though

SB

CrisPDuk

Mmmmmm, There's no such thing as not enough armament methinks

Are the two rotors contra-rotating?

IWatkins

Yeah, but that was against American pilots. I should hope so too.

That is a fearsome looking helicopter (haven't seen one before) but can't help thinking that it is a risky platfrom in the anti-tank role. By the looks of it you have to bring the whole aircraft above the tree/ridge line before the sensor package can get a good look at the battlefield, hence leaving you open to an artillery response.

One of the great things about the Apache D in addition to some of the work the Brits are putting in theirs, is that you only need to pop the millimetre wave radar dome above the tree/ridgeline for targetting and then for not very long. Cross link that info to your mate (Apaches hunt in pairs, at least UK tactics dictate it) and he can launch off some ordnance for you lowering your risk to counter attack by ground based artillery.

Lot of other great stuff on the Apache, so much so, I can't belive it was designed by Americans (but refined by Brits)

Cheers

Ian

Sbradley

CrisPDuk said True.




And yes, the rotors are contra-rotating. Very quiet and very strong, although not fashionable and hardly stealthy...

While Ian said Fair point, and well made Mind you, they were instructors and actually quite good...

The primary sensor package is in the nose, yes, and that does mean you have to completely unmask to engage as a solo. So you don't work solo. Russian aircraft have datalinks and handoff capability as well, but they tend (tended) to use infantry borne sensor packs delivered via Hind...

The next generation version - the Ka52 - has a mast mounted sensor pack as well as a second crewmember. Pilot workload in the '50 was very high despite the automation and the fact that the cab was very easy to fly.

But that radome has a huge radar cross section. I worked on the RAH-66 Comanche programme for a bit and couldn't believe that the whole Comanche has 1/64 the observability of the Longbow radome...

While Apaches hunt in pairs, they still have difficulty handling the flight envelope of the Werewolf. -4 to +9 G and a VNE of 180kt makes for a bloody hard helo target. Add the survivability of the airframe and the very wide engagement envelope of the missiles and you've got something you honestly don't want to go up against. The missiles have an 80 degree off boresight acquisition capability and a Mach 4 cruise. They are also capable of engaging armour or aircraft, being pilot configurable as missiles or hittiles. The gun is a 37mm cannon lifted off the BMP-2 which is heavy and has a relatively low rate of fire bt the muzzle velocity is enormous and the shell energy is terrifying.

I can. Seen it's reliability and MTBF records for Desert Storm?

Should be OK once it's been Anglicised, though, and it does fly nicely

SB


[Edited by Sbradley - 1/17/2004 7:19:28 PM]
Edited for speeling & to answer the rotor question...

[Edited by Sbradley - 1/17/2004 7:23:40 PM]

mj

...actually, am I allowed to change my mind after seeing all this juicy hardware?

can I swap the SU-27 for the Apache as my favourite?

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

Damn, I love planes. Interest started as my dad did his engineering apprenticeship building English Electric Lightnings. My great uncle was also a pilot for the Pathfinder squadron flying Lancasters in WW2.

So apart from those two -

SR71 - The Daddy (so much so I had to have one)



deHavilland Mosquito - the Wooden Wonder , and most beautiful plane ever IMO

North American XB70 Valkrie - how big, how fast :O:

North American X-15 - ultimate speed and height (mach 6.70!)

Fairey Delta 2 - British 1,132mph in 1956 !

Rgds
Phil

IWatkins

Mj,
No you can't

Sbradley,
(Note, I'm no pilot or expert an helicopters/planes etc. Most of my professional knowledge is to do with weather effects on various sensor packages and weather effects on tactical/strategic operations.)

Thanks for the info. I've had a little search on the 'net and reading all the specs. that is one mean helicopter. At the moment I think I would still take the Apache but with mast mount sensors I think it would easily swing the other way.

Interesting you mention the Apache radome, as I understand it, a lot of work was/is being done on that along with the awful exhaust baffles that don't really do anything to suppress the IR sig on the Apache.

So how does the Werewolf fly ? The few UK Apache pilots I know love the way the Apache flys, even including the funny way it doesn't really pitch forward heavily while accelerating (something to do with keeping the whole platform level so that the gun, weapons and sensor package can keep on target, so I was told).

Cheers

Ian

Sbradley

Ian, Werewolf flies like an STi goes

It's incredibly stable - the rotor arrangement means that you don't get the normal issues around torque & lift assymetry that you do in a conventional chopper and you can genuinely fly stab off, hands off. Try doing that in an Apache

The flight envelope takes a bit of getting used to, as does the rather strange feeling when you slave flight control to the weapons system...

The cockpit wasn't very sophisticated by Western standards with analogue clocks and a moving map that still used a roll of paper. But the navigation data was downloadable from a standard audio cassette. Believe it or not, you could play audio through it as well!

It was fitted with an ejection system that jettisoned the rotors and hauled the pilot out through the roof. It was a 0/0 system and is supposed to work at 200' inverted. It hadn't been tested fully when I flew it but I was happy enough it was there - if you're gonna need the seat then you're history anyhow so at least this gives you a chance.

The big thing was the strength of the main fuselage. When I was flying the aircraft there was an independent (Western) assessment done that said there was no currently deployed AA system that had sufficient energy to cause a catastrophic failure apart from the AIM-54 Phoenix. In other words, a Stinger, Sidewinder or AMRAAM wouldn't sjoot it down even with a direct hit. I saw a film of a test aircraft being hit with several hundred 30mm rounds while being hovered by a real live pilot (wonder who he p!ssed off to get that job) about 400m from the ZSU-30 that was firing. It shot off all the ancilliary bits, punctured the tyres and so on, but the aircraft was still recoverable...

SB

Edited because I have a knackered keyboard. Or I can't spell...

[Edited by Sbradley - 1/17/2004 8:30:45 PM]

johnfelstead

If you get the chance, go visit the Boing museum at Boing Field just outside Seattle, they have some fantastic aircraft on display there.

Some of one the favourites in this thread.


The engine


and onboard the original Air Force One.


[Edited by johnfelstead - 1/17/2004 8:47:29 PM]

Brun

drumsterphil - where did you get that model? I want one