Ajax

mutant_matt: Thank for your reply, and I read it with interest.


But I need those words.

Where the **** has IM put this in writing, as I for one will be ready to rip them apart if they have over stepped the mark being unreasonable

Bottom line what constitutes an out of warrantee modification, I want to see the words.

mutant_matt

Ajax,

I can't help you with the location of the words I'm afraid as I have never bought a UK sourced car (). Hopefully someone will be able to point you to the correct location though.

RE the JD Power survey. Subaru used to win it and/or score very highly but these days they have slipped somewhat. I would also be surprised if that many people who buy their first Impreza look at this site before purchasing. There is a large number of owners out there that have never heard of Scoobynet or the SIDC. I think you get a warped sense of perspective on this BBS sometimes about that fact, because the very fact that we use this BBS (IYSWIM).

Cheers,

Matt

[Edited by mutant_matt - 1/19/2004 10:25:11 AM]

Rog Ford

Do you really think IM are being unreasonable? They're offering a 3 year, 60,000 mile warranty, on the condition that you don't fit unauthorized performance parts to it (and if a backbox isn't a performance part - why are you bothering to fit it?)

If they're going to allow some parts, but not others, then they will be required to decide whether or not a particular part caused the engine to go bang or not. How are they going to do that? An engineers report (which is likely to be disputed) for every warranty claim?

Some dealers might be willing to fiddle the warranty claim for you, but that hardly makes IM's rules wrong, does it? And can you blame them for being upset with "nice" dealers who fiddle the claims?

Of course, if this isn't made clear to buyers it certainly should be. But after that, it's up to you. Want to keep the warranty up? Stick to the rules by which is provided.

That K&N letter is based purely on US law. I see nothing that suggests it should apply to the UK too, though there may well be similar UK laws.

AlexM@work

I think the warranty wording is something along the lines of 'original parts or equivilant quality'. It is written in the warranty T&Cs in the first couple of pages.

If you replaced a downpipe or mid-section with a decatted part, then it is NOT to the OE spec as the catalyst has been removed. IM could hardly countenance fitting of any part that means the car is no longer road legal.

Similarly if a replacement part in the induction system could be represented as having caused a consequential failure of the maf, or affected the caliberation of the ECU then you will probably be out of luck if IM sends a warranty inspector to look at the car (as they usually will for high-value warranty claims).

Personally I think this is perfectly ok, and that nobody should be under any illusions as to what the position is if you fit non-approved performance parts, regardless of how individual dealers choose to implement the policy.

I think that EU legislation has been tightened with regard to aftermarket parts - do they not require type approval if the warranty is to be maintained?

Cheers,

Alex

Scooby300

Asked my dealer today for their views ........Have to get back to me when they have checked with the service manager, can't see it a problem.

Ajax

AlexM@work: You comments make perfect sense to me.
Where would they draw the line, non approved tyres or floor mats.
What ever next.

Scooby300: If you do get an answer to the warrantee words question can you post them, and what interpretation they put on 'original parts or equivalent quality' or what ever it says.

sugar04:Quote
backbox has to be OEM or prodrive, read the small print

What small print, we are still waiting to see it m8??????????????????

mutant_matt:
Do you realy think there are Scooby owners that have not heard of SIDC or Scoobynet, Realy!

Maybe not heard of Scoobycity, but not Scoobynet

Scooby300

Well I have the answer from my dealer.

“Fitting a replacement non OEM back box would not be a problem”

“IM would have to show it caused the direct problem for the warranty claim ie they could not refuse a Starter Motor Clutch E.C.T if a Back Box had been changed”.

They have also said that they have had “cars with a full de-cat come in and been accepted for warranty work without any problem”.

However they have advised to keep the old standard box which can be refitted (by the dealer in needs be) should IM need to carry out a full inspection of the car , “however this is very unlikely”.

“A replacement Back Box is only going to give a couple of HP so how can that cause any additional stress to the engine”

“Any changes to the ECU ie remaps ect then kiss goodbye to your warranty unless it is a Prodrive ECU”

I have also been looking at an article on 2003 Block Exemption Rules, which make interesting reading regarding Non OEM parts and also the use of no franchised dealers for service work. Need to read it properly and do a little more research before I comment any further but looks good for us all.

Anyone who knows the full details on the above European Regulations or a full understanding of the paper please post below.

Scooby300

sugar04

can you please let us all know what dealer you work for.

Some will go the extra mile to help us and some just to shaft us, It would be nice so we all know where not to take our cars

sillysi

Regarding Block Excemption. I have made the following point on other threads.

"all new Subarus purchased after October 2003 can be serviced at a garage meeting IMs new standards. This at the moment only means franchised dealers. It is all down to a clause in block excemption that the OFT are looking into early nexy year."

Basically the EU did not remove Block Excemption on Servicing, they have left it down to each member country to decide on. The OFT produced a report in Dec 2003 on the whole issue and are going to look into it this year.

Scooby300

I apologise if parts of this text don’t make sense but this is scanned from an article in the trade press and has been converted by a OCR program into text.

Motor Trader 19th January 2004

RAGS VERSUS RICHES: The OFT’s research has concluded that servicing a car through an independent could save the customer around £85 over a main dealer

A PROBE into new car warranties
has presented the first challenge
to manufacturers and their
dealer networks under the new
block exempt on rules.

Last month the Office of fair Trading declared that car
makers and their franchised retail outlets must lift
restrictions on where vehicles can be serviced under
warranty - and pledged to use the full force of
European law if they refused.

The move opens up the first front in what promises to
be tough battle for control of the aftermarket, one of the
most profitable automotive sector so With more than 2.5
million cars sold in the UK during each of the last two
years, drivers are reckoned to spend a total of around
£10 billion a year on servicing and repair so
According to the OFT, most cars come with an
extended warranty offering up to three year's cover.
However, around half of them have servicing
restrictions, stipulating that only a franchised dealer can
carry out the relevant work.

Yet, according to the OFT report, most consumers are
in the dark about where they can get their cars serviced
without invalidating the warranty - even where there
are no restriction.
While accepting that some manufacturers had already
removed servicing restrictions, the watchdog said others
needed to follow suit and improve advice to customers
about servicing options

WATCHDOG BARES ITS TEETH
The OPT also said it would launch a consumer
awareness campaign and work with trade associations,
such as the RMI, on developing codes of practice to
enhance customer confidence. If manufacturers did not
comply; then they would face a formal investigation
under European competition law.°
"I suppose that you could describe this as a shot
across the manufacturers' bows," ]onathan May ;the
watchdog's director of market and policy initiatives, told
reporters at a press conference. "We'd had a number of
complaints from consumers as well as independent
garages about this issue.
"Around 90 per cent of servicing is carried out by
franchised dealers, but there is no real difference in
quality whether you go to a franchised or independent
outlet," he added. "However, we did find that there was
a significant difference in price."

The probe found that servicing at independent
garages was typically around £116 as opposed to £199 at
their franchised counterparts. At these rates, May
calculated that in total consumers were being charged
around £500;000 too much each year.
"If we don't see the sort of changes we are looking
for, then we will consider taking action in the spring
when we get new powers under European law," May
stressed. 'We are concerned about this restrictive
practice. "
This threat of action is a significant move. Despite the
hype surrounding the introduction of the new block
exemption regulations last October, little has happened
since. But the OPT announcement suggests that the
coming year will see the authorities clamping down on
anyone failing to abide by rules.
Keith]ones, managing director of Unipart Logistics
and an industry veteran, recently warned fellow
aftermarket professionals that the European Union was
determined to see its laws enforced. He stressed that the
new block rules were the most significant development
in the motor industry for years - and was convinced that
any transgressions would be dealt with severely.

'SHOW ME THEMONEY'

Meanwhile Philip Wylie, automotive team leader at
accountancy firm KPMG, also predicted that servicing
would be fiercely contested by franchised dealers and
independents because of the financial rewards it
brought. "It will be a battleground because it is where
they money is," he added.
Colin Parlett, RMI deputy president, believed the OFT
report was the tip of the iceberg. He maintained that
Brussels-based European authorities were keen to see
the block rules rigorously policed - and were relying on
local agencies to get the job done.
But Parlett, who is taking over the presidency of the
federation next May believed the clarification of new car
warranties was an important step towards the freeing up .
of the market ~ and would bring benefits for both
independents and franchised dealers.
"Given these new opportunities, independents must
now take them on in a responsible manner and know
and accept their limitations," Parlett told Motor Trader.
"It is essential that they identify the things they can do
effectively.

"However the recommendations of warranty
investigation also offer opportunities to franchised
dealers - they will be able to service cars from other
brands."

Whatever the final outcome of the OFT probe, it is
clear that local block exemption enforcement
authorities are ready and willing to use their new
powers as soon as they become available.

October's introduction of the new block exemption
rules might have passed of without incident. But in the
eyes of the Brussels Bureaucrats it seems ,the time for
talking is over. The coming 12 months will be a time of
reckoning - and the letter, as the spirit, of the
law will be applied without mercy



[Edited by Scooby300 - 1/20/2004 8:29:06 PM]

Ajax

Scooby300: sillysi:

Well done to the both of you for the research and coming back to us with it.

Thank goodness common sense prevails.

Louby

Janspeed made all the systems for the world rally car and have there own road version!

MikeWood

Let's get this straight, Janspeed DID NOT make the exhausts for the WRC Impreza. Fitting ANY non-approved exhaust components will have warranty implications.

Mike

Mick

iTrader: (1)

Don't worry about sugar04's comments... I'm sure it's just another PSLewis 'PenName'

Mick

Scooby300

Very Hard to prove the exhaust componet caused any problems and the dealer know this, ok if its a full de-cat but just a back box


[Edited by Scooby300 - 1/23/2004 11:58:43 AM]

midlander123

All of this does not seem a problem, just simply make sure you only purchase parts that are easily removed, and replace with the original parts when your car goes in to the franchised dealer for service or repair.
If something nasty happens away from home find a good bed and breakfast while your best mate brings the original parts to you, fit them back on the roadside and then phone the Subaru hotline.
Seems a better bet than taking IM to court, my divorce just cost me £6000 in legal fees, taking IM to court is likely to cost much more.......

midlander123

All of this does not seem a problem, just simply make sure you only purchase parts that are easily removed, and replace with the original parts when your car goes in to the franchised dealer for service or repair.
If something nasty happens away from home find a good bed and breakfast while your best mate brings the original parts to you, fit them back on the roadside and then phone the Subaru hotline.
Seems a better bet than taking IM to court, my divorce just cost me £6000 in legal fees, taking IM to court is likely to cost much more.......