imlach

No, bad grammer from me - do not smoke and never have.

imlach

ozzy said :
Indeed, you are correct, height has nothing to do with the definition of "overweight".

However, I added my height as it is gives a sense of scale. ie, I'm sure my ideal weight is probably around 13-14 stone or something.....ballpark. So, 4 stone is only about 30% overweight for me. If one was a short person of 5', and ideal weight was 8st, then you'd be 50% overweight.....FAR FAR worse.

Yes, I understand both are still overweight, but one of the above is a lot worse.

imlach

Can I also just add my personal observations of the Atkins so far.

I am now 6 days into it. I feel no worse for it, in fact, I feel better for it as I am feeling less stressed at work, less tired at work, and get a good nights sleep. I have no cravings, and what I'm eating I don't consider to be "devil's food".

Reason? Well, I think I have actually improved my diet since last week. Before, I used to have pretty sensible balanced meals, but perhaps too many days in the work canteen where the lure of chips was too easy, slipping the odd chocolate shortbread thing onto the tray. Late-afternoon, the lure of the choccy machine. Home to another nice balanced meal, but then come 10-11pm, maybe the odd alcoholic beverage or two, packet of crisps or 3, maybe a hunk of bread. You know the score. Didn't do ALL the above on one day, but cumulative effect took it's toll.

OK, so yes, I could take out all the crap out the above (chips, crisps, chocolate, too much booze) and I'd be back to a proper sensible diet with no inbetween meal madness. However, I know it'd be too easy to slip the odd one back in here & there, and bang, back where I started!!

What I, and perhaps many, attracted us to the Atkins is the lure of a kickstart. A diet is something I have also before now poo-pooed, and vowed never to do that "women" $hit. I am not good on reduced intake. Could never cope with 1 lettuce leaf for lunch, followed by a bowl of cabbage soup for tea. I need to feel like I'm eating not far off normally.

Atkins seemed to provide this. Eat fairly normally, but no carbs. Now, look at it this way.....compare my worst & best case menus both before & during Atkins.

Before (Menu 1) : brekkie (bacon rolls), lunch (beef stir fry with chips, choc shortbread), snack (Yorkie), dinner (homemade veggie lasagne & chips & salad), snack (few beers, crisps x 3, bread, choc biccies).

My menu today (Menu 2) : brekkie (scrambled egg), lunch (drained tuna with STACKS of salad), dinner (chicken breast x 2 again with stacks of salad). All under the 20g daily carb limit set by Atkins.

Now, which menu has more saturated fat, more processed crap (refined sugar, hydrogenated fat, white flour, alcohol!). OK, I'm missing out on lots of carbs in the 2nd menu, but I'm still getting 20g of the ****ers every day!!!

Would you all not agree that Menu 1 is a heart attack on a plate, and Menu 2 isn't far off what we are told to eat - lean chicken breast, tuna, egg, stacks of salad, etc. OK, in the non-atkins world, I'd maybe have had a bit of pasta with the chicken, and my 5 bits of fruit throughout the day. Add that in, and you wouldn't be that far removed from the IDEAL balanced diet.

The point is, I'm missing out on a bit of pasta, and a bit of fruit. However, look what $hit I've taken out from my old diet!!!

Would you not agree that my diet now is far more healthy and balanced????


Now for my second point. Atkins is bad. OK, maybe it is. I've got an open mind. I'm not blind to all the 'talk' about it. I don't intend to keep my carb level at this level for too long anyway. Spring is approaching and I'll be out on my bike, and the plan is that by that time, I'll have kickstarted my weight, metabolism up, and I'll be exercising the additional carb intake away. My aim is to be on a portion of either pasta/rice/bread every day. Balanced.

...ok, and finally, what IF Atkins is really bad. How bad is it? Smoking is bad, but smoking for 1 month in your life is not going to kill you. Drinking is worse, but drinking for 1 month in your life is not going to kill you (assuming non-lethal quantities - let's say 100 units/week for month - most people could cope with that and live to tell the tale with no long-term effects).

I can see from this diet that perhaps it is too easy to obsess over carbs. I suspect those with longer-term damage are consuming zero carbs, huge amounts of the wrong fat, not enough water every day, and COULD BE clogging up their kidneys etc. All with the aim of trying to get thin TOO fast.

Time will tell. I know that there can't be too many short-term effects, as millions have done it ok. Long term, who knows. However, I know that my previous diet & booze intake was probably doing equally bad or even far worse things long-term!!

Just to add at the end, that I am not yet "pro-atkins", but believe for me, at this present time in my life, it has given me that "kickstart" I required. The willpower to try and remove the gut once & for all. Words that every dieter says I'm sure, but time will tell

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

This woman works for the Atkins lot - scary






Wife's just started on it & moaning like buggery 'cos she's a picker & nibbler, so finds herself hungry. Maybe this might help stop that which is no doubt one cause of her excess weight.

I am yet to feel the effects of the Atkins my wife is on. This evening she generously cooked a baked potato for me + sweetcorn, neither of which she can have


I probably am not too heavy for my size/frame but could do with losing a few round the tummy & getting fit. My diet is simple - don't eat! Not a great eater & have never been, so my stomach doesn't expect it. However, like a beer or 4 a night, hence the tummy, so trying to cut that right back - hard, like giving up smoking again!

Next its excercise but £40 pcm in a gym is outta budget & its raining outside

Anyhow, lets see how the wifey does - prehaps it might increase her libido

imlach

I don't want to be thin like her - yuk!

Exercise - I have started walking home from the railway station BEFORE the railway station I should get off at - it's 2.5 miles, and takes me about 35-40 minutes. Do this, as weather is a bit dark & cold for bike right now.

ozzy

The whole bodyweight/height ratio is very misleading and people shouldn't take it on face value. A 5' body builder could have a poor ratio, since muscle is heavier than fat.

People shouldn't get too fixated just on weight. Ideally anyone concerned with "looking" heavy, should get their body fat measured and then take things from there. Just because your 4 stone over some 1970's average doesn't mean all 4 stone is unhealthy fat (unless you've had this checked already )

I'm not against the principle of Atkins, in that lowering carb intake can cause weight loss. All I'm against is the media hype and the marketing around it. Having too much of the wrong carbs will make you put on weight and it's usually all the sugary cr@p added to our foods. For example, so-called healthy yogurt is one of the worst. If people just followed some simple advice we wouldn't need to bother about these diets.

Pasta isn't that bad for you, but most people (even athletes) eat too much or the simply don't burn it off. Carbs are a great fuel source, but you can only store so much and you need to watch you keep the right balance. Even if you exercised for a few hours per day, it would take some effort to use all the extra carbs/calories if you had bowls of it 3 times per day.

The one thing that surprised me training in the Marines was just how much we ate. A fry-up and cereals for breakfast, large portions of meat, vegatables & bread for lunch and as much for dinner (including plenty of pudding). The reason is simple, you're getting thrashed for 10hrs per day and you need it. You can't eat or exercise at that intensity forever, but it goes to show that you need to burn off what you eat. Whether it's carbs or fat, that simple system needs to be followed. How your body burns and stores these different types is important and that's why I'd say keep it balanced (neither very high carbs or fat) and get plenty of exercise. I've yet to see a fat Marine recruit (note I added recruit)

The Atkins looks like a short-term fix, which is exactly why it's called a fad diet. People try it, lose lots of weight then go back to their old routine and pile it back on. Unless people gradually kick habits and sugary food then more often than not the weight will get put back on.

I'd say the important bit is stopping what made someone overweight in the first place. I still eat chocolate or have pudding when I'm out for a meal and I didn't think twice about eating a large portion of popcorn and the pictures tonight. As long as it's every now and again, I'll treat myself.

Anyway, best of luck with getting your weight down and we'll be making sure you keep it off

Stefan

imlach

Ozzy - I agree with everything you are saying to me. I spent my youth cycling all hours of the day & weekend, and competing, so was damm fit then.

I then went to Uni, got a bit blobby, and then spent the time post-Uni (finding job!) as a cycle courier, and that was 35 hours a week of hard toil - yet, found I ate less & less as I got fitter again (metabolism etc I guess).

I would love to be able to exercise it off like that again (time/family prevent this now).....but cycling 25 miles/day to/from work will help come March. I'll be back on carbs by then, and off this 'faddy' thing

However, hopefully I'll be a stone lighter by March too.....

[Edited by imlach - 1/22/2004 12:11:11 AM]

milo

rubbish. sorry but that is. there is PLENTY of evidence to suggest that ketogenic diets are one of the best types of diets to lose fat. what better way to lose fat than to force your body to fuel itself off of fat? bodybuilders have been using this method for years with great success.

yes, atkins probably is one of the worst implementations of a ketogenic diet that i've ever heard, but the concepts behind it are spot on. i like to think of atkins as the layman's version of the bodybuilders' cutting up diet.

yes ketogenic diets are quick fix faddy diets.. because they're supposed to be. typically a bodybuilder will use an implementation of it, such as ckd, to cut bodyfat while maintaining as much muscle as possible. granted, non-natural bb'ers will juice while on this diet to keep as close to 100% of the muscle they had as possible... but even natural bb'ers use ckd... and it works. bringing this into the mainstream for the rest of the public, the idea is to use ketosis to shed as much fat as possible, and then to maintain the weight you want by slowly introducing other foods.

unfortunately most people on keto/atkins don't eat anywhere near enough fat to get into ketosis. they're surviving almost purely on protein. their body is forced to fuel itself on protein, and in the absense of food, will simply metabolise muscle. muscle weighs a lot, so the "i lost 4 stone this month" brigade have actually managed to destroy what lean mass they did have.

just some thoughts

gregh

IMHO, here's a better alternative to Atkins, he is a UK guy and is less strict, ie you can have caffeine, bread, nanas etc.

Barry Groves, PhD (Oxfordshire - UK)
Author of "Eat Fat, Get Thin!"
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...lowcarbintheuk

imlach

Milo,

Out of interest, how much fat a day are we talking? Typical menu?

ozzy

Imlach,

One of the best exercises whilst on the diet would be to get a day or so away in the hills. Do some Munro bagging and you'll burn thousands of calories in a few hours walking. Gets you strong heart, lungs and legs too.

Stefan

imlach

Ozzy,

Yes. I know. Cycling a few hours in the hills near my house would be just as good
Just need to put the knobblies back on my mountain bike and take the slicks off.

imlach

I can understand better now as well about low fat diets.

They don't work....because the body wants to store fat if it doesn't get enough of it....so it will store every ounce of fat you eat on a low fat diet.

I guess as many have said, cutting out processed & refined foods is key for long-term. The caveman diet if you like I imagine cavemen didn't eat THAT many carbs apart from veg & fruit.

milo

a LOT more than you're having that's for sure. u want mostly "good" fats (i.e. omega-3), so drink flaxseed oil (if u can stomach it), eat salmon and other oily fish. dont underestimate the benefits of saturated fats too - you DO need some.

the amount of fat depends on your mass... im not sure on your exact weight but reading your posts it sounds like you're 17-18 stone with no more muscle than average (u said you're 4 stone overweight and should be 13-14 stone)? if that's the case then i would tend to start u on 200g of fat and 200g of protein daily, split over at LEAST 5 meals. in other words, about 70% of your calories are coming from fat. take in NO carbs deliberately (there will be some hidden sugars in most foods, and this can account for 20g/day in itself) except for a weekly carb-up following heavy lifting.

get yourself some ketosticks. if you're not getting into ketosis within 2 days after carb-up, you're probably not eating enough fat. if u find you're losing more than 2lbs/week up your calories. if u find you're not losing anything, drop your calories VERY SLIGHTLY.

read up about ckd - it's far better than atkins and yields better results. this is more of a bodybuilders' implementation of a ketogenic diet however, so you'll need to lift weights at least once a week on this.

SHESCOOBY

Hmmm Big Sinky I know how ya feel mate, I have Diabetis aswell I was diagnosed when I was 12 I am now 30... however I have grown up with diabetis in the family as brother is aswel and he was 2 when he got diabetis.... And well lets say majority of the my family have it. But its hard to loose weight and well we cant do the Atkins due to us having to have Carbs not fair.

Try Slimming world, a whole lot better and you can eat carbs!! and I'm looseng it... the weight that is not my mind thats already gone lol

ChrisB

Could be a good program on TV tonight - Horizon. BBC2, 9pm.

"Is it possible to lose weight without counting calories? Can eating fat really make you thin?

Horizon reveals the truth about the world's most famous, most glamorous and most controversial diet.

Thursday 22 January, 9pm, BBC Two."

Daily Telegraph has an article about it too this morning.

DJFish

Chaps,
I started on 'Le Atkins' in September of last year, I'm 6'4" and weighed 21.5 stone.

When I was 18 I was doing a 12hr/day physical job and cycling/windsurfing every other hour, drank like a fish, ate loads of crap and weighed 14stone.

Over the last 10 years my work has become less physical, I have less and less time or enthusiasm to do sport/exercise.

Since September and including a two week blowout in Singapore and Christmas, I've got down to 17stone.

Now I'm trying to make more time for exercise and eat more healthily but have cut out spuds rice and beer for good, except for the occasional indulgence, and am aiming to lose a wee bit more of the belly over the next six months.

It DOES work (at least for me anyway) and is a great way to kickstart you into a healthier lifestyle.

Good Luck

Dave

Walwal

I've been doing it for 2 and a half weeks. Due to my job, I can't take meat to work for lunches etc, no-where to heat them up. I was taking 230g of salad, and a couple of hard boiled eggs, a couple of chicken portions (cold), tin of sardines, etc etc. All low carb stuff. Followed the book for my main meal at night. Snacks of cheese, eggs etc when peckish.

I also drank a 2 litre bottle of water while at work, plus other glasses of water at home.

3 times in the 17 days I was on it, I dared not to move more than 20 yards away from the toilet (including today, had to come home from work). It has totally scrambled my insides, been taking Immodium tablets recommended by the chemist, but as yet not much sucess and needless to say, no more Atkins for me. I did lose half a stone.

I'll try something else, or stay fat.

My *** feels like I've been ****ting razor blades.

Beware of Atkins!!!!



[Edited by Walwal - 1/22/2004 8:46:50 PM]

Neverguess

Program on BBC2 at 9pm tonight about it.