What type of FMIC?
20 June 2001, 02:05 AM
#31
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Stef,
A FMIC will undoubtedly give more power, but ask yourself this,
In comparative terms, how do you think the airflow of the fans acting on the FMIC, compares to the airflow on it, on the road, and likewise, the "hose" on the TMIC, compared to the airflow through the scoop.
Out of curiosity, did PTS take before, and after Co' readings.
Mark.
A FMIC will undoubtedly give more power, but ask yourself this,
In comparative terms, how do you think the airflow of the fans acting on the FMIC, compares to the airflow on it, on the road, and likewise, the "hose" on the TMIC, compared to the airflow through the scoop.
Out of curiosity, did PTS take before, and after Co' readings.
Mark.
20 June 2001, 07:37 AM
#32
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Putting dyno (rolling road) figures and theories aside, the most basic measurement of performance increase comes from the size of a customers smile after he has taken the car for a few laps around the block...I usually endeavor to have a potential buyer around when a customer comes to pick his car up after a front mount installation.
Kevin, Hyperflow, Australia.
Harj.
Stef requested black hose for his car for the stealth look....admitedly it doesnt look as good as the blue or red option we offer but it is made in the UK Samco!!!
Kevin, Hyperflow, Australia.
Harj.
Stef requested black hose for his car for the stealth look....admitedly it doesnt look as good as the blue or red option we offer but it is made in the UK Samco!!!
20 June 2001, 09:49 AM
#33
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Hyperflow,
do we have a price in the uk yet?
and does your kit still allow airconditioning, I would guess it does since the hoses appear to go through the wing.
Harj mentioned some cutting involved in the installation of stefs front mount, can you detail this possibly?
thanks for your time.
Stef, obviously rolling roads are much kinder to fmics than to tmics, but nevertheless, 18 hp is a great result, I hope you are smiling as much as I will be.
in your opinion, how did uit feel in comparison on the track, and what are your views on its lag?
sorry for all the questions, but I want to get this right.
do we have a price in the uk yet?
and does your kit still allow airconditioning, I would guess it does since the hoses appear to go through the wing.
Harj mentioned some cutting involved in the installation of stefs front mount, can you detail this possibly?
thanks for your time.
Stef, obviously rolling roads are much kinder to fmics than to tmics, but nevertheless, 18 hp is a great result, I hope you are smiling as much as I will be.
in your opinion, how did uit feel in comparison on the track, and what are your views on its lag?
sorry for all the questions, but I want to get this right.
20 June 2001, 10:31 AM
#35
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Given the comments made about my previous posts, you may choose to ingore this one. 
Many years ago, I was working (at a well known firm in Northampton) on an RS500, and discovered that the driver had over-filled the sump before taking the car for a thrash. He (the firms' MD) returned, and complained that the performance was worse than a standard (non RS500) model. On investigation, we found that the excess oil had been blown out of the engine and had lodged in the intercooler, and was blocking off the bottom 2/3 rds of it!
Subsequent investigation of other RS500s found that most had some oil in the intercoolers. It didn't effect the performance of most cars on the road (the intercooler was sized for homologation for racing, not for road use), but was reducing the effective size of the intercooler anyway.
The moral of the story? Always check that the outlet pipes of the intercooler matrix are level with or below the base of the intercooler.
This is not the case on all of the kits mentioned in this thread. It would seem a pity to spend money on putting in a large intercooler and then blocking some of it. 
Duncan
Many years ago, I was working (at a well known firm in Northampton) on an RS500, and discovered that the driver had over-filled the sump before taking the car for a thrash. He (the firms' MD) returned, and complained that the performance was worse than a standard (non RS500) model. On investigation, we found that the excess oil had been blown out of the engine and had lodged in the intercooler, and was blocking off the bottom 2/3 rds of it!
Subsequent investigation of other RS500s found that most had some oil in the intercoolers. It didn't effect the performance of most cars on the road (the intercooler was sized for homologation for racing, not for road use), but was reducing the effective size of the intercooler anyway.
The moral of the story? Always check that the outlet pipes of the intercooler matrix are level with or below the base of the intercooler.
This is not the case on all of the kits mentioned in this thread. It would seem a pity to spend money on putting in a large intercooler and then blocking some of it. Duncan
20 June 2001, 10:57 AM
#38
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Guys can I please reitterate that the above opinion is completely my opinion and has nothing to do with NAM!
Apologies to Stef and Hyperflow as I admit my technical knowledge is limited in the field of FMIC's, but please remember this is my opinion.
Harj...
Apologies to Stef and Hyperflow as I admit my technical knowledge is limited in the field of FMIC's, but please remember this is my opinion.
Harj...
20 June 2001, 11:01 AM
#39
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I can't comment on Stefs car prior to having the FMIC fitted, but after being in it at Donington on monday, it felt very similar to my STi when pre "BOOM", ie, quick
I didn't really notice any great amount of lag.
Don't really think we can question the performance of the car - was doing a fine job of keeping up with a quick Supra and the only thing that came past was a race GT Porsche - but Stef still caught him up under braking
LOL (hopefully if there were any girly squeals from me, they'll be edited out )
I am obviously (slightly) biased, cos of what we sell, and I'll be very interested to see how both compare. 18hp at the wheels and I'll be very happy
As to certain others comments
I didn't really notice any great amount of lag.
Don't really think we can question the performance of the car - was doing a fine job of keeping up with a quick Supra and the only thing that came past was a race GT Porsche - but Stef still caught him up under braking
LOL (hopefully if there were any girly squeals from me, they'll be edited out )I am obviously (slightly) biased, cos of what we sell
, and I'll be very interested to see how both compare. 18hp at the wheels and I'll be very happy As to certain others comments
20 June 2001, 11:04 AM
#40
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Its a shame you can'y make the Genuine RS500 cooler fit as its the best on by far.....
But oil is a problem on cossie's regarding coolers and track, needs the breather system on there which some people forget (dont) do.
I have a pace RS500 spec one at the mo and its being replaced by a Geniune one as the one at the moment aint up to the Job.
But oil is a problem on cossie's regarding coolers and track, needs the breather system on there which some people forget (dont) do.
I have a pace RS500 spec one at the mo and its being replaced by a Geniune one as the one at the moment aint up to the Job.
20 June 2001, 11:37 AM
#41
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Mark.
I think the effect of the different fans on the rollers will be similar in proportion to the differing airflow each recieves on the road. Obviously no fan is going to feed either intercooler as much air as it would get on the road, but the whole point of a fmic is surely to get more cold air in? If this is what's happening on the rollers then it's a fair comparison, is it not?
I didn't ask about the before and after CO readings to be honest, but I think it was 8% after?
Kevin.
I think the black hoses look great!!
Sure, they're obviously not as colourful as the red or blue ones, but they certainly don't look cheap and definitly suit CK1 better. Even the 'great' Firefox was mightily impressed with the set-up, and that takes some doing!
Adam.
The car felt awesome on the track and whilst there was obviously some lag, it certainly didn't affect the way the car drives. The lag would apparently be greater still if I had a larger turbo.
Craig.
Thanks for being honest.
Don't forget the 540bhp Cossie!!
I will hopefully have the pics and figures up later today so that you can all make your own minds up.
Stef.
I think the effect of the different fans on the rollers will be similar in proportion to the differing airflow each recieves on the road. Obviously no fan is going to feed either intercooler as much air as it would get on the road, but the whole point of a fmic is surely to get more cold air in? If this is what's happening on the rollers then it's a fair comparison, is it not?
I didn't ask about the before and after CO readings to be honest, but I think it was 8% after?
Kevin.
I think the black hoses look great!!
Sure, they're obviously not as colourful as the red or blue ones, but they certainly don't look cheap and definitly suit CK1 better. Even the 'great'
Firefox was mightily impressed with the set-up, and that takes some doing! Adam.
The car felt awesome on the track and whilst there was obviously some lag, it certainly didn't affect the way the car drives. The lag would apparently be greater still if I had a larger turbo.
Craig.
Thanks for being honest.
Don't forget the 540bhp Cossie!!
I will hopefully have the pics and figures up later today so that you can all make your own minds up.
Stef.
20 June 2001, 12:21 PM
#42
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This relates more to Karlos' comment regarding utilising the space/bonnet scoop usefully once a FMI is fitted.
Following the fitment of an HKS FMI the pipe work having necessitated a fair bit of ancillary resiting anyway,we resited the air-filter at the rear rhs of the engine bay, fabricating the extra pipework and scoops/deflectors necessary to create a direct 'ram-air' type cold-air feed via the bonnet-scoop. In theory this is considerably more efficient than the standard siting, the caveat being that the filter must be angled downwards to let water run off as water ingress is more of a consideration.The HKS pipework also involved the addition of twin remote reservoirs for the brake master-cylinder;
<img="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1731859&a=13319038&p=50627606&f=0"/img>
In order to maximise the airflow to the FMI, the front spoiler& lip have been cut down and streamlined.;
<img="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1731859&a=13319038&p=50627607&f=0"/img>
No dyno figures yet but it certainly appears to work very effectively - better than this bloody infernal photo-downloading system appears to anyway.
[This message has been edited by RobAnderson (edited 20 June 2001).]
[This message has been edited by RobAnderson (edited 20 June 2001).]
Following the fitment of an HKS FMI the pipe work having necessitated a fair bit of ancillary resiting anyway,we resited the air-filter at the rear rhs of the engine bay, fabricating the extra pipework and scoops/deflectors necessary to create a direct 'ram-air' type cold-air feed via the bonnet-scoop. In theory this is considerably more efficient than the standard siting, the caveat being that the filter must be angled downwards to let water run off as water ingress is more of a consideration.The HKS pipework also involved the addition of twin remote reservoirs for the brake master-cylinder;
<img="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1731859&a=13319038&p=50627606&f=0"/img>
In order to maximise the airflow to the FMI, the front spoiler& lip have been cut down and streamlined.;
<img="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1731859&a=13319038&p=50627607&f=0"/img>
No dyno figures yet but it certainly appears to work very effectively - better than this bloody infernal photo-downloading system appears to anyway.
[This message has been edited by RobAnderson (edited 20 June 2001).]
[This message has been edited by RobAnderson (edited 20 June 2001).]
20 June 2001, 12:45 PM
#43
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Harj.
You have disappointed me.
When you drove my car the other day you said you couldn't believe how hard it pulled. The difference was 'amazing' in your words.
Now you come on here and run it down and talk about lag, which has suddenly gone from "can't notice it at all" to "there is more lag and hesitation"
"Please note this is my independent opinion on driving 2 very similar cars one after another and is not a dig at any manufacturers or persons."
Yeah right!
You are now a trader on this bbs, representing New Age Motorsport who happen to be selling the APS fmic.
I am disgusted at your pathetic attempt to undermine a competitors product even before it's on general sale!
And how in God's name can you call the gains I got 'insignificant'???? You are showing your true colours and complete lack of technical knowledge if you honestly think that an 18bhp gain AT THE WHEELS is insignificant!
The overboost problem was caused by oil in the wastegate solenoid pipes due to running slicks, and had sod all to do with the fmic. Oh, and if the hoses look cheap so too must Samco ones.
If this is how you intend to conduct your business at New Age Motorsport then the best of luck to you, cos you're going to need it.
Mark A.
The car has been run on two dyno's, the same day runs taking place at PTS in Luton. They have just had the software left by the last compnay upgraded, as it was over-reading quite considerably before. Anyway as I've said, it's not the actual figures that are important, but the difference between the two runs.
Stef.
PS Sorry to everyone who's waiting to hear more about and see the Hyperflow fmic, I'm having trouble getting the pics off the camera. I will endeavour to get it done tomorrow.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 20 June 2001).]
You have disappointed me.
When you drove my car the other day you said you couldn't believe how hard it pulled. The difference was 'amazing' in your words.
Now you come on here and run it down and talk about lag, which has suddenly gone from "can't notice it at all" to "there is more lag and hesitation"
"Please note this is my independent opinion on driving 2 very similar cars one after another and is not a dig at any manufacturers or persons."
Yeah right!
You are now a trader on this bbs, representing New Age Motorsport who happen to be selling the APS fmic.
I am disgusted at your pathetic attempt to undermine a competitors product even before it's on general sale!
And how in God's name can you call the gains I got 'insignificant'???? You are showing your true colours and complete lack of technical knowledge if you honestly think that an 18bhp gain AT THE WHEELS is insignificant!
The overboost problem was caused by oil in the wastegate solenoid pipes due to running slicks, and had sod all to do with the fmic. Oh, and if the hoses look cheap so too must Samco ones.
If this is how you intend to conduct your business at New Age Motorsport then the best of luck to you, cos you're going to need it.
Mark A.
The car has been run on two dyno's, the same day runs taking place at PTS in Luton. They have just had the software left by the last compnay upgraded, as it was over-reading quite considerably before. Anyway as I've said, it's not the actual figures that are important, but the difference between the two runs.
Stef.
PS Sorry to everyone who's waiting to hear more about and see the Hyperflow fmic, I'm having trouble getting the pics off the camera. I will endeavour to get it done tomorrow.
[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 20 June 2001).]
20 June 2001, 12:57 PM
#44
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Stef,
Thanks for the info, and for your interpretation of the results
I won't comment on Harj's
The reason I asked about the RR, was for "my own" interpretation of the "before, and after" results, based on the RR fan set up.
Have PTS still got the same set up for the TMIC cooling, or has it changed.
The results are great.......
Mark.
Thanks for the info, and for your interpretation of the results
I won't comment on Harj's
The reason I asked about the RR, was for "my own" interpretation of the "before, and after" results, based on the RR fan set up.
Have PTS still got the same set up for the TMIC cooling, or has it changed.
The results are great.......
Mark.
20 June 2001, 01:42 PM
#46
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Christian- Thanks very much for getting the photos up (and underlining my ineptitude with all things computers).ta.
(in answer to your question- the FMIC was £1150 from GGR and should you 'hole' the core-as I did at christmas- a replacement IC sans pipes&bits+pieces is £750)
[This message has been edited by RobAnderson (edited 20 June 2001).]
(in answer to your question- the FMIC was £1150 from GGR and should you 'hole' the core-as I did at christmas- a replacement IC sans pipes&bits+pieces is £750)
[This message has been edited by RobAnderson (edited 20 June 2001).]
20 June 2001, 04:34 PM
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Adam.
I have used slicks before but this was the first time I have used 17's.
You do push the car that bit harder, but I was driving nowhere near the limit due to the overboosting I was experiencing.
I was still lapping Donno just two seconds off my best time though.
Can't think where the extra power was coming from though!
Dingy.
I believe Jay was running a Pace chargecooler for a whuile but didn't like it.
Stef.
PS I'm writing and posting the eagerly anticpated thread as we speak!!!
I have used slicks before but this was the first time I have used 17's.
You do push the car that bit harder, but I was driving nowhere near the limit due to the overboosting I was experiencing.
I was still lapping Donno just two seconds off my best time though.
Can't think where the extra power was coming from though!
Dingy.
I believe Jay was running a Pace chargecooler for a whuile but didn't like it.
Stef.
PS I'm writing and posting the eagerly anticpated thread as we speak!!!
25 June 2001, 12:06 AM
#55
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Stef,
A quick thought.
The lag you would experienc will be the pressurisation lag relating from the time it takes to repressurise the intake system.
It is possible to reduce this my not letting it lose pressure in the first place.
Have you thought perhaps of removing your dunp valve. It shouldn't stall the turbo as much as previously as having a larger intake system will mean a bigger "buffer".
Other option is to modify the dump valve (if non standard) so that it only opens on a very strong vacuum.
That way, if you modify your driving so that you feather the throttle rather than lift of entirely, you wont have lost all that healthy pressure.
A quick thought.
The lag you would experienc will be the pressurisation lag relating from the time it takes to repressurise the intake system.
It is possible to reduce this my not letting it lose pressure in the first place.
Have you thought perhaps of removing your dunp valve. It shouldn't stall the turbo as much as previously as having a larger intake system will mean a bigger "buffer".
Other option is to modify the dump valve (if non standard) so that it only opens on a very strong vacuum.
That way, if you modify your driving so that you feather the throttle rather than lift of entirely, you wont have lost all that healthy pressure.
25 June 2001, 11:58 AM
#56
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Absolutely!!
Seriously though, I thin it would be a great idea at a track day to put temp gauges in cars that are running normal and different fmic to see which one is doing the best job.
I'll be doing it at The Ring with a std and the Hyperflow, but not sure if anyone's going with any other make of fmic?
Stef.
Seriously though, I thin it would be a great idea at a track day to put temp gauges in cars that are running normal and different fmic to see which one is doing the best job.
I'll be doing it at The Ring with a std and the Hyperflow, but not sure if anyone's going with any other make of fmic?
Stef.
25 June 2001, 11:59 AM
#57
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Absolutely!!
Seriously though, I think it would be a great idea at a track day to put intake temp gauges in cars that are running normal and different fmic's to see which one is doing the best job.
I'll be doing it at The Ring with a std and the Hyperflow, but not sure if anyone's going with any other make of fmic?
Stef.
Seriously though, I think it would be a great idea at a track day to put intake temp gauges in cars that are running normal and different fmic's to see which one is doing the best job.
I'll be doing it at The Ring with a std and the Hyperflow, but not sure if anyone's going with any other make of fmic?
Stef.
25 June 2001, 05:19 PM
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fair point Craig,
dont know myself. But I know Pat has done it, and the chances of him being able to get a replacement at reasonable money are slim.
Can't imagine that stalling the turbo is THAT bad though, surely it means you get a rush of pressure in the wrong direction causing the compressor to slow down. I would have thought given the conditions of a turbo in normal operation that the blades would be able to handle it, but then again, I dont know much on this subject.
Anyone care to set me straight?
dont know myself. But I know Pat has done it, and the chances of him being able to get a replacement at reasonable money are slim.
Can't imagine that stalling the turbo is THAT bad though, surely it means you get a rush of pressure in the wrong direction causing the compressor to slow down. I would have thought given the conditions of a turbo in normal operation that the blades would be able to handle it, but then again, I dont know much on this subject.
Anyone care to set me straight?