Please don't tell me it's piston slap!!!
14 June 2001 | 08:10 PM
#32
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Simon,
Further to our e-mail earlier, we will have to compare on Sunday morning. I was going to 'warm-up' before you came round, but willl leave it nice and cold so that you can have a listen to mine.
It does make a noise on cold-start, Sparshatts told me that it was Ok but never in a 'positive' kind of way.
I never worried before, after the MkIV Golf my scooby is bloomin loud anyway but with warranties looming and an impending 45k service piece of mind would be nice.
Someone should post a high quality WAV file of an engine running with piston slap, that would answer it for anyone who's not sure
Laurence
Further to our e-mail earlier, we will have to compare on Sunday morning. I was going to 'warm-up' before you came round, but willl leave it nice and cold so that you can have a listen to mine.
It does make a noise on cold-start, Sparshatts told me that it was Ok but never in a 'positive' kind of way.
I never worried before, after the MkIV Golf my scooby is bloomin loud anyway but with warranties looming and an impending 45k service piece of mind would be nice.
Someone should post a high quality WAV file of an engine running with piston slap, that would answer it for anyone who's not sure
Laurence
14 June 2001 | 08:42 PM
#33
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From: The Granite City/Dallas, Tx.
As a MY98 owner who has gone through this piston slap malarky, I've got some comments:
1) Very common on MY98, I got a new short engine - I thought the piston kits were only fitted to Sports.
2) Another common problem on the MY98 is a juddery-as-buggery clutch when cold, get this checked as well by your dealer. When the engine was replaced on mine, they replaced the clutch and flywheel under warranty too.
3) Check if they've <B>changed the timing belt </B> - I was lead to believe that mine was replaced. But guess what, I've got my 45,000mile service with the <B>timing belt</B> tomorrow. Not impressed at them putting a smoothed, used and worn belt into a brand block.
4) Got all that lot done back in November last year with 2weeks left on the warranty @ 34,000miles
Good Luck - it's like a different car (aurally and when cold afterwards
Edited for grammar.
[This message has been edited by Miles (edited 14 June 2001).]
1) Very common on MY98, I got a new short engine - I thought the piston kits were only fitted to Sports.
2) Another common problem on the MY98 is a juddery-as-buggery clutch when cold, get this checked as well by your dealer. When the engine was replaced on mine, they replaced the clutch and flywheel under warranty too.
3) Check if they've <B>changed the timing belt </B> - I was lead to believe that mine was replaced. But guess what, I've got my 45,000mile service with the <B>timing belt</B> tomorrow. Not impressed at them putting a smoothed, used and worn belt into a brand block.
4) Got all that lot done back in November last year with 2weeks left on the warranty @ 34,000miles
Good Luck - it's like a different car (aurally and when cold afterwards
Edited for grammar.
[This message has been edited by Miles (edited 14 June 2001).]
15 June 2001 | 01:03 AM
#34
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From: uk
miles you were correct to a certain point they did only used to do pistons on sports and legacys. turbos had to have a new engine but then they developed a piston for turbos which is 60 microns bigger than the standad piston so this is the fix every one gets. as to what is replaced the piston and gudgeon pin are replaced that is all
[This message has been edited by scoobyboy (edited 15 June 2001).]
[This message has been edited by scoobyboy (edited 15 June 2001).]
15 June 2001 | 04:44 AM
#35
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From: East Sussex
Just had mine done as well, can confirm they no longer put shortblock, have developed modified piston.
Slight problem for me was the gudgeon pin dislodge and damaged cylinder.
Garage rebuilt engine, have to run in again. Would this increase or decrease value of car approx 54k on the clock
Slight problem for me was the gudgeon pin dislodge and damaged cylinder.
Garage rebuilt engine, have to run in again. Would this increase or decrease value of car approx 54k on the clock
15 June 2001 | 03:57 PM
#38
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From: Gosport, near Portsmouth
Simon,
If the sound is what you described then I think yours is as big a slapper as mine!
Got your message about not bringing the dog, i tell ya, If I talked about my old lady like that I'd have a permanent choir boy's voice!
Thanks Wal, will pick your email up tonight.
Karlos
[This message has been edited by Karlos (edited 15 June 2001).]
If the sound is what you described then I think yours is as big a slapper as mine!
Got your message about not bringing the dog, i tell ya, If I talked about my old lady like that I'd have a permanent choir boy's voice!
Thanks Wal, will pick your email up tonight.
Karlos
[This message has been edited by Karlos (edited 15 June 2001).]
20 June 2001 | 07:49 PM
#41
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From: Gosport, near Portsmouth
Phoned our "friendly Local Dealer" this morning inquiring as to when they want the car back in. Chap on the end of the phone basically told me who knew nothing about it!!! A little angry, gave him my number and was told he would call me back with an update. Did he? Did he bollox! 
Starting to get quite pi$$ed off now with this dealer....
Simon, good luck tommorow m8. I pray there's nothing wrong with your motor 'cause it's a bitch to get 'em to fix it!
Karlos
Starting to get quite pi$$ed off now with this dealer....
Simon, good luck tommorow m8. I pray there's nothing wrong with your motor 'cause it's a bitch to get 'em to fix it!
Karlos
21 June 2001 | 09:37 AM
#42
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Hi there,
Mine went to the same dealer this morning, and has (thank god) a dodgy solenoid that's vibrating - they don't have any in so will be swapped out at the next service. It did take a lot of people some time looking at it to come to this conclusion, but I believe them to be right as they were able to stop the noise temporarily.
Best of luck with yours :-(
Simon.
Mine went to the same dealer this morning, and has (thank god) a dodgy solenoid that's vibrating - they don't have any in so will be swapped out at the next service. It did take a lot of people some time looking at it to come to this conclusion, but I believe them to be right as they were able to stop the noise temporarily.
Best of luck with yours :-(
Simon.
25 June 2001 | 05:33 PM
#44
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From: Gosport, near Portsmouth
Hoorah!
had a call from "our favourite friendly dealer" this afternoon. Car is booked in for Monday 9th. They want the car until Thursday (!) Wal, I thought it took them three days to do a short engine, why so long when they're just doing a piston????
Anyway, I am somewhat relieved that it's being done, and will fill you all in on the result!
Karlos
had a call from "our favourite friendly dealer" this afternoon. Car is booked in for Monday 9th. They want the car until Thursday (!) Wal, I thought it took them three days to do a short engine, why so long when they're just doing a piston????
Anyway, I am somewhat relieved that it's being done, and will fill you all in on the result!
Karlos
26 June 2001 | 06:29 PM
#45
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Mine makes that Helicopter sound... Usually when cruising at 30 in 4th, or 40 in 5th.
Both Pete C and My Dealer had a look at it and said it wasnt Piston Slap. Piston slap is a dieselling sound when cold... Mine doesnt do that
Ive since come to the conclusion that it is exhaust resonance... Why? I have a Scoobysport D/P with HKS Hiper centre and backbox. I recently got a silencer baffle for the back box and with the silencer in place, the noise goes away. Remove the silencer and the noise comes back.
Wierd huh?
James.
PS. My dealer told me that the fix for Piston Slap was a Teflon coated piston.
Both Pete C and My Dealer had a look at it and said it wasnt Piston Slap. Piston slap is a dieselling sound when cold... Mine doesnt do that
Ive since come to the conclusion that it is exhaust resonance... Why? I have a Scoobysport D/P with HKS Hiper centre and backbox. I recently got a silencer baffle for the back box and with the silencer in place, the noise goes away. Remove the silencer and the noise comes back.
Wierd huh?
James.
PS. My dealer told me that the fix for Piston Slap was a Teflon coated piston.
27 June 2001 | 11:59 AM
#47
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Pete Croney:
<B>Start the car and then one at a time unplug an injector lead. Plug each back in before moving onto the next cylinder.
Piston slap normally affects cyl 4. If the knocking goes away with the injector unplugged, then that's the cylinder with a problem. Cylinder 4 is the one nearest the passenger seat (RHD car). If the noise goes with cyl 4 unplugged, my money is on piston slap.[/quote]
I'm a bit late to this thread, I hope you guys can help me though.
When Pete is talking about removing the injector leads, does mean from the coil on top of the engine, or are they somewhere else.
Or maybe its dangerous to let an anti-mechanic such as myself under the bonnet.
cheers, dela
<B>Start the car and then one at a time unplug an injector lead. Plug each back in before moving onto the next cylinder.
Piston slap normally affects cyl 4. If the knocking goes away with the injector unplugged, then that's the cylinder with a problem. Cylinder 4 is the one nearest the passenger seat (RHD car). If the noise goes with cyl 4 unplugged, my money is on piston slap.[/quote]
I'm a bit late to this thread, I hope you guys can help me though.
When Pete is talking about removing the injector leads, does mean from the coil on top of the engine, or are they somewhere else.
Or maybe its dangerous to let an anti-mechanic such as myself under the bonnet.
cheers, dela
13 July 2001 | 08:49 AM
#50
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From: Gosport, near Portsmouth
YAY!
Got my car back from the dealers yesterday evening and can honestly say I had the quietest most comfortable drive home I've had since buying the car two months ago. Bloody marvelous.
Simon, I still have the same helicopter noise as you though so will get them to sort that next service.
Must admit although I'd never buy a car from them again, their service department is very good and considerate. Had a call on wednesday from them telling me that my clutch was well and truly knackered so got them to fit a new one minus the labour... My clutch must have REALLY been slipping as the car scared driving to work this morning!
Karlos
Got my car back from the dealers yesterday evening and can honestly say I had the quietest most comfortable drive home I've had since buying the car two months ago. Bloody marvelous.
Simon, I still have the same helicopter noise as you though so will get them to sort that next service.
Must admit although I'd never buy a car from them again, their service department is very good and considerate. Had a call on wednesday from them telling me that my clutch was well and truly knackered so got them to fit a new one minus the labour... My clutch must have REALLY been slipping as the car scared driving to work this morning!
Karlos
13 July 2001 | 01:12 PM
#52
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From: Gosport, near Portsmouth
Wrexy,
The other noise was present with the piston slap but was slightly different, EG, the Piston slap was prodomenently from cold, where as the heli noise I still have is more pronounced and can be heard all the time, as clear as a whistle from the drivers seat.
Karlos
The other noise was present with the piston slap but was slightly different, EG, the Piston slap was prodomenently from cold, where as the heli noise I still have is more pronounced and can be heard all the time, as clear as a whistle from the drivers seat.
Karlos
13 July 2001 | 01:29 PM
#53
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From: Greece, previously Syd Australia
I think the noise has to do with the engine being a boxer and gives it that off beat sound like a helicopter. When I bought my car everyone here was saying it sounds like a helicopter.
WREXY.
WREXY.
13 July 2001 | 11:47 PM
#54
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Hi WREXY
Mine has the same noise usually when cold. I am disturbed and thinking to visit the main Subaru service in Pireas. The noise comes from the cylinder under the turbo. Do you know is this the Nr 3 or 4 cylinder?
Jim
Mine has the same noise usually when cold. I am disturbed and thinking to visit the main Subaru service in Pireas. The noise comes from the cylinder under the turbo. Do you know is this the Nr 3 or 4 cylinder?
Jim
14 July 2001 | 10:19 AM
#55
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From: Greece, previously Syd Australia
Hi Jim,
Number 3 is under the turbo. Is it a knock or a helicopter noise? The piston slap noise will be similar to the noise made when tapping your knuckle very lightly against your computer monitor. Not exactly the same noise, but close. Knock lightly with your knuckle on the bottom front near the corner of the monitor where it's solid, not on the glass.
I'm going to the main dealer on wednesday for my first official service and to fit my Lamco boost guage. Stelios is going to meet up with me there and he will take me to see an EVO 6 his m8 owns as he is thinking of buying it. If you want, try and organise for wednesday so we can be together.
WREXY.
[This message has been edited by WREXY (edited 14 July 2001).]
Number 3 is under the turbo. Is it a knock or a helicopter noise? The piston slap noise will be similar to the noise made when tapping your knuckle very lightly against your computer monitor. Not exactly the same noise, but close. Knock lightly with your knuckle on the bottom front near the corner of the monitor where it's solid, not on the glass.
I'm going to the main dealer on wednesday for my first official service and to fit my Lamco boost guage. Stelios is going to meet up with me there and he will take me to see an EVO 6 his m8 owns as he is thinking of buying it. If you want, try and organise for wednesday so we can be together.
WREXY.
[This message has been edited by WREXY (edited 14 July 2001).]
14 July 2001 | 03:45 PM
#56
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Re noises:-
I think the helicopter noise - that sounds a bit like a Huey is just the exhaust (std DP/ magnex centre/SS backbox). Mine does it at idling and it is as if you can hear the pulse of air from each cylinder exhausting. It only seems to be audible at really low revs when the pulses are quite far apart. You can hear it at the tailpipe too. Doesn't sound like piston slap which is normally a rather diesel like startup noise when cold.
One disconcerting noise though is the ticking sound on each cylinder exhausting that comes from the exhaust headers. It sounds like dodgy tappets to me but does appear to be coming from the exhaust headers. Anyone else noticed this ? Mines done it from 50 miles so I have taken it as normal.
I think the helicopter noise - that sounds a bit like a Huey is just the exhaust (std DP/ magnex centre/SS backbox). Mine does it at idling and it is as if you can hear the pulse of air from each cylinder exhausting. It only seems to be audible at really low revs when the pulses are quite far apart. You can hear it at the tailpipe too. Doesn't sound like piston slap which is normally a rather diesel like startup noise when cold.
One disconcerting noise though is the ticking sound on each cylinder exhausting that comes from the exhaust headers. It sounds like dodgy tappets to me but does appear to be coming from the exhaust headers. Anyone else noticed this ? Mines done it from 50 miles so I have taken it as normal.
14 July 2001 | 05:26 PM
#57
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From: Greece, previously Syd Australia
Eric,
I agree about the heli noise being exhaust resonance. That was the diagnosis on my car and yes it does it on idle and at very low revs and you can here it out the back of the exhaust too.
I've noticed the tappety sound too, from new, it's normal though. My engine has been said to be quiet as I've asked a few people that are in the know. After reading about all the noises on the bbs I have become very paranoid and noises that are normal had me worried for a while. It's good but, because now that I concentrated on the noises, I know that the noises in my engine are normal, I know what they sound like now, so any new noise I hear from now on will mean that something is probably wrong.
WREXY.
I agree about the heli noise being exhaust resonance. That was the diagnosis on my car and yes it does it on idle and at very low revs and you can here it out the back of the exhaust too.
I've noticed the tappety sound too, from new, it's normal though. My engine has been said to be quiet as I've asked a few people that are in the know. After reading about all the noises on the bbs I have become very paranoid and noises that are normal had me worried for a while. It's good but, because now that I concentrated on the noises, I know that the noises in my engine are normal, I know what they sound like now, so any new noise I hear from now on will mean that something is probably wrong.
WREXY.
15 July 2001 | 11:47 PM
#58
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Hi WREXY
Sorry for been late but I was in my village (Plastiras lake) for the weekend.
I can't meet you next Wednesday, I hope some of the next weeks I'll do it.
About my engine noise the local Subaru dealer told me not to worry, isn't a piston slap, now I am more concerned because the noise is close to that you describe above! Who made the diagnosis to your car?
Anyway what must expect if I have a piston slap - I mean what is next - a big end failure?
Last night I had a comparison with a tuned (240 hp Audi A4) and we are the same fast, cos I can't drive my car to their limits (more than 6000-6500 rpm)... With all these threads I am scared!
What is a 240 (or more) hp car, if you can't use it as it would (fast)!
I always use 98RON sul, change my oil every 5-6000 km (Aral 5-50 since now, the next change Castrol RS 10-60) and do all the precautions for been safe... Am I?
As I read in the Big-end topic the latest cars (called phase 2 I think, My99-00) don't suffer form this failure, but we haven't yet enough km to prove it. And something else to discuss, the local service told me that we had about 7-8 failures in Thess and Athens, probably-not sure, in My98 models!
Regards Jim
[This message has been edited by JIM THEO (edited 15 July 2001).]
Sorry for been late but I was in my village (Plastiras lake) for the weekend.
I can't meet you next Wednesday, I hope some of the next weeks I'll do it.
About my engine noise the local Subaru dealer told me not to worry, isn't a piston slap, now I am more concerned because the noise is close to that you describe above! Who made the diagnosis to your car?
Anyway what must expect if I have a piston slap - I mean what is next - a big end failure?
Last night I had a comparison with a tuned (240 hp Audi A4) and we are the same fast, cos I can't drive my car to their limits (more than 6000-6500 rpm)... With all these threads I am scared!
What is a 240 (or more) hp car, if you can't use it as it would (fast)!
I always use 98RON sul, change my oil every 5-6000 km (Aral 5-50 since now, the next change Castrol RS 10-60) and do all the precautions for been safe... Am I?
As I read in the Big-end topic the latest cars (called phase 2 I think, My99-00) don't suffer form this failure, but we haven't yet enough km to prove it. And something else to discuss, the local service told me that we had about 7-8 failures in Thess and Athens, probably-not sure, in My98 models!
Regards Jim
[This message has been edited by JIM THEO (edited 15 July 2001).]
16 July 2001 | 01:06 AM
#59
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From: Greece, previously Syd Australia
Hi Jim,
Did your dealer hear the car on cold start up?
My car was diagnosed by a mechanic and one of the guys from the bbs who is here from the UK on holiays who knows what doesn't sound right. Some how I have a feeling you don't have piston slap as it is much more rare on the MY99/00.
The noise I described above, (lightly knocking the computer monitor with knuckle) is the noise (but a bit more metallic like), that I used to hear on my heavily modified Ford V8 which used to run forged pistons. It had piston slap as all cars with forgies have piston slap on cold start up till the piston expands after warming up, even from new. My engine builder told me that the noise I was hearing was piston slap on the Ford. I'm not 100% sure that this is the noise a scooby engine will make, but I can't see why not.
Piston slap should not cause bearing failure. I think you misunderstood the bearing thread. I'm pretty sure it says that phase 2 engines also suffer from main bearing failure. P1's do and they are phase 2 engines.
Get your noise checked by an engine builder if possible. Otherwise let me hear it when you come. If you haven't got warranty you can wait. If you have warranty get it checked quick and take it from there.
I was just on the phone to my friend in OZ who owns a performance shop and is an engine builder and tuner and he said none of the cars or scoobs he's worked on have the piston slap noise except for the cars he has fitted with forged pistons.
Good luck with it Jim.
WREXY.
[This message has been edited by WREXY (edited 16 July 2001).]
Did your dealer hear the car on cold start up?
My car was diagnosed by a mechanic and one of the guys from the bbs who is here from the UK on holiays who knows what doesn't sound right. Some how I have a feeling you don't have piston slap as it is much more rare on the MY99/00.
The noise I described above, (lightly knocking the computer monitor with knuckle) is the noise (but a bit more metallic like), that I used to hear on my heavily modified Ford V8 which used to run forged pistons. It had piston slap as all cars with forgies have piston slap on cold start up till the piston expands after warming up, even from new. My engine builder told me that the noise I was hearing was piston slap on the Ford. I'm not 100% sure that this is the noise a scooby engine will make, but I can't see why not.
Piston slap should not cause bearing failure. I think you misunderstood the bearing thread. I'm pretty sure it says that phase 2 engines also suffer from main bearing failure. P1's do and they are phase 2 engines.
Get your noise checked by an engine builder if possible. Otherwise let me hear it when you come. If you haven't got warranty you can wait. If you have warranty get it checked quick and take it from there.
I was just on the phone to my friend in OZ who owns a performance shop and is an engine builder and tuner and he said none of the cars or scoobs he's worked on have the piston slap noise except for the cars he has fitted with forged pistons.
Good luck with it Jim.
WREXY.
[This message has been edited by WREXY (edited 16 July 2001).]