markwild

As a matter of consideration, how many 'undesirable' items are posted by SN+ members ?

If this is low, then more weight could be added to the SN+ route, but if it's still average, then SN+ forums will still be an issue.

I'm not suggesting that the whole board be SN+, but I think that the SN+/free route needs to be examined ONLY if it would be an improvement.

Keep up the good work,

Thanks,

Mark

Buzzer

Simon

I think you've addressed some long standing issues and it's good to see you all "grabbing the bull by the horns" finally.

As a consequence i'll put my money where my mouth is and support this bbs by sending my SN+ subscription in today's post

Well done to all at SN (including it's members). This bbs set's the Scoob owners a cut above other forums and car owners.

i'm not crawling i've just realised that i've sold and bought things on here, i've met people off here at meets, i've had valuable advice free of charge from very helpful people on here and i've had a bloody good laugh aswell. All that for £25.00 a year, no probs SN, well worth it

Thanks to everyone

dosenöffner

Wizzbang has a point. I certainly don't want full status as I already get the discounts from other sources. There is no requirement for me to have the shop card so how about a lesser fee for subscription to the forums only.

Or how about you put the community spirit to the test and add a 'Donation by PayPal' button for a couple weeks and see how you get on. Then a few of the pros can put their money where their mouth is. A Scooby-Net-A-Thon if you will.

Other sites seem to manage with them and have similar membership numbers. Thinking along the line of online gaming sites which are not official sites.

How many ScoobyNet Plus members are their currently?

It is my understanding that ScoobyNet is being run as a business and is registered as such. Are the financial reports available as with many other companies? Surely a Plus member could be viewed as having a vested interest?

[Edited by dosenöffner - 1/23/2004 11:43:22 AM]

fullonloon2

Just responding to a post above. I'm not suggesting that the people in there aren't beneficial to the community, it's just that the whole area is a complete waste of time full of benign comments. Some people may enjoy it but I can't see why it's beneficial to the bbs and that is what this is about.

RichWalk

Quite upset you feel the need to resort to these measures, however a selective 'hiding'of certain peoples remarks, although against my own feelings may well benefit people who are less tolerant and may make their view of SN more worthwhile. I agree about changes to the For Sale section, not sure about charging for it without somesort of 'value for money' statement ie justify its worth paying ethic. re Muppet section, I personally find this a great area of stress relief during my day and it can at times be positively mood changing- priceless if your snowed under and had enough at work. Globally you need to review what sort of 'animal' in SN you want; do you want a bouyant multi topic area of views and discussions mainly from people who love cars/ or a selective smaller community of very focused scooby based enthusiasts?? I would suggest this is the main issue rather than constructively 'splitting hairs'

Good Luck and Best wishes

Rich.

jasey

How About stopping people registering with hotmail e-mail accounts ?

SiDHEaD

Being able to moderate (only remove posts) threads which you started seems good idea. And to be able to close/lock your own thread.


Andy

ex-webby

Fatman

Titan? Not sure what you mean. We do not use Titan.

Agreed, your explanation of the service is exactly what I would be interested in suggestions of.. anyone know of anything?

Adam

Wow! Thanks for all that...

Clearly define anti-community spirit. Difficult to clearly 100% define. But agreed, we need to try.

Subscription only scoobynet will not happen. It would remove too many valuable and supportive members from having the service. If we had subscriber only FORUMS however, it would mean that both groups had their ideal.

Muppet forum uses a tiny fraction of the bandwidth of scoobynet.

Moderation should become easier in the gentlemenly forum, because :
- it will soon become clear that certainly types of post are not tolerated
- there will be less people in there
- we can remove people from the facility very easily.
- moderators no longer have to deliberate over borderline posts.

Affiliated site.. good idea, will look in to that.

Fatman

Agreed.. apologies for any offense. What I see as anti-community spirit (in this particular case) is anything that is against what a community wants. So anti-their-ideals, or whatever. Meaning.. the community wants it, but you don't, etc, etc. Hope you get what I mean, and I promise I didn't want to offend.

---

re: we need to define anti-community spirit. Agreed. We can all discuss this in more detail later. Please keep this subject on topic and just let us know (if you have a comment on it) whether you agree with the principle of heavier moderation of anti-community spirited conduct - as a concept.

---

Craig - thanks for the feedback and input

Plus members will be able to use for sale FOC.

Different scales of for sale charges. Difficult as it will need far more policiing and moderation. For instance... "Tea Cup for sale £10,000 with free car". Need to keep it as simple as possible so it does not take up more moderator time.

advertisers specials forum.. good idea.

----

dnb

FAQ - good point.. We'll think up a clever way of allowing people to add to this maybe?

Search improvements.. agreed.. possibly more advanced features for plus members?

---

fatman

Moderator modertaion. Interesting idea. We could work out a good way to allow members to rate moderation practices, or individual moderators. Would be important that good things are rated as well as bad though, or the results would be distorted. Good idea.

Post purchase charging for FOR SALE forum. I think that would be almost impossible to impliment, which is a shame, as in an ideal world, that would indeed be better.

---

Wizzbang

Good idea on having a smaller fee to simply have all the forum features. I'll have a think about that one, thank you.

---

Boro

Thank you, great suggestions and feedback.

---

markwild

"undesirable" posts by SN+ members. Good point. We could put in the terms and conditions that continued "undesirable" (needs defining) posts will result in removal of plus membership and non-refund. They would therefore have more to lose.. would that work?

---

Buzzer

Thank you very much.

---

Back in a bit.. things getting busy. Thank you to everyone!

All the best

Simon

SiDHEaD

Re: "Moderator moderation"

Good idea, BUT - you only know who's done it when they EDIT posts, not delete etc.

Andy

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

My suggestions for what I see as potential improvements to Scoobynet, it's only minor things, but things that I would like to see.

One thing that has grabbed my attention is the quoted "36102" registered members I'm under the assumption that over the 5 odd years SN been going that a large number of these users no longer use SN or use different users names for various reasons (such as tiscali e-mail accounts etc.)

It may be a good idea while SN is having a good clean up that a policy for non-paying users who don't post in SN for say, over 6 months to have their account deleted and user name released back to the public domain. As many will agree, attempting to register a normal user name (like jeff or john etc.) will give the message of the user name is already taken. Yet in many cases it is never used.

I'm for the charging on the For sale section, just as a token gesture for the use of SN for personal gain. And it'll help stop people trying to sell kitchen sinks and continually BTTT'ing them.

Ahh yes, and a ban on "BTTT" (Back to the Top) in For sale and Wanted sections. As currently it's a fight as to who BTTT's the most in order to stay on page 1.

Muppets should stay, as it provides a good "dumping ground" for topics too stupid for other areas, but where posters still want to actively contribute to. Perhaps more regulation on massive multiple page threads?

Or on very large multiple page threads, on the forum listing of topics, not to list every single page number of the thread, just the option of going to the first or last page in the topic. Then give the option of acessing individual pages once within the thread. This may "clean up" the messy looking large topics. Especially with the less fortunate users who have to use low screen resolutions and large default font sizes

And finally, something without doubt that bugs alot of us is after posting to a thead you are returned to Page 1 rather than the last page of the thread. Could this be changed to the last page? Or at the least given the option?

Edit (again): Very bad spelling due to (Chinese) New Year Hangover


[Edited by ALi-B - 1/23/2004 12:05:04 PM]

carl

So implementing the google ads is anti-community spirit? I don't think you'll find that anyone wants the google ads. A number of people may be prepared to tolerate them however.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Just read through this thread with interest, and I can't say I didn't see it coming

I agree with Wizzbang's comment: I personally don't feel a need for the SN+ discounts, but WOULD be prepared to pay for SN forum membership.

Surely we could do something like "Friends Reunited": anyone can view/use the BBS, but only members who pay £5 pa can actually contact each other through the board.

I'd like to propose that we have similar: anyone can visit the site, look at any forum, do searches etc etc, but only those who have paid £5 can post or see e-mail adresses to buy stuff etc.

As far as the For sale forum goes: why not do as my local paper does?
Anything can be sold , and each item gets placed into a section where it fits.
Items below £80 are free, and those above charged at nominal rates, where the rate depends on lineage/item.

Alcazar

ex-webby

carl

You've made your statement, and in this instance I will reply, but please do not continue the debate.. or open another thread in policy, as it will take this off topic.

According to the response we've had more people are happy to have them, for the good of scoobynet, and therefore the community, than are against them.

We're trying to do some good here carl. The decision on the ads is final, and will not be discussed further until our trial period has been completed.. in accordance with this thread's guidelines, any further posts on the subject will be removed.

All the best

Simon

wacky.banana

Webmaster et al,

I'm broadly supportive of the changes you are suggesting as the objective would appear to be to make SNET a better place for all of us, no matter what our views, political leanings, etc.

There are a couple of things that I think are essential if you want to make this work:

1) Have the facility in place to allow a thread starter, but no one else (save the moderators) to be able to edit their own threads. This would mean that if some oaf deliberately set out to muppetise a serious thread then the thred starter can simply delete the elements of the thread that are not releveant. At a stroke you save your moderators much work and angst.

2) You MUST define the criteria that will be used to measure/moderate threads/forums etc. With respect it's not good enough to use "anti community spirit" as a measure if we don't know what that means. Even if your early definition might be ambiguous/open to misinterpretation, it would still be a start in the right direction. We would understand and accept such a definition being refined over time; however it MUST be objective in nature.

Again I respectfully suggest that anything remotely subjective will cause confusion amongst the ranks, may be seen as being unfair, and may cause you problems if you have to explain why a particular adjudication decision has been made. There has to be clear line of sight between the rules and any adjudication/moderating decisions if the process is to have a chance of being seen to be objective and fair.

3) Moderators need to be seen to be obeying both the rules and the spirit in which those rules are meant to operate. While I'm in no way suggesting that moderators should not contribute to threads (it is their right of free specch of course) they are in a unique position and need to be aware of that. You recently publicly reproached one of your moderators on this very same point so care is required here.

3) What you guys are suggesting is encouraging. However where you have been asked by the community to improve something but have been seen to be slow to react to that request it might help if you posted bulletins on progress on particular issues. I for one would like to hear more from you guys on a more regular basis in terms of, eg developments that will benefit the community.

The For Sale forums are a case in point; SNET members have been nagging for changes to be made for a long while now and while it is now apparent that you have been doing work in the background to enhance that forum, the fact that this has been happening, in my opinion, has not been sold or publicised well enough.

Talk to us more often, some of us are really appreciative of what it takes to run a good board! So what about a weekly news thread from Webmaster then?

Adios for now, work calls.

WB

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

A thought I'd add about SN+

I've always seen main reason as to why becomming a member is to take advantage of offers in the shop etc.

I have never found this benefical to me, and thus not a member especially with Scooby parts, simple due to me being able to source them via my trade links cheaper and faster. I know I am a minority in this, but I feel that many users have similar reasons, such as not owning scoobies or not interested in accessorising etc.

So it would be good to see the benefits offered by SN+ to be more appealing, in terms of user features and freedom. If SN+ was diversified, it would be more appealing. (although I don't really hae many good ideas on what you could diversify on - sorry! )

ex-webby

Hi All

some superb suggestions.. I'm reading, but time limits me from replying just yet.. apologies, and I will reply again when things calm down.

All the best

Simon

Fatman

Yes, I thought you did use Titan. Anyway, I wasn't certain so I edited out the Titan reference about 45 mins before your post, so I'm not sure how you picked up on it.

Email gateways? Most hosts offer them, although they're often somewhat bolted-down to avoid abuse by spam-merchants. Some hosts offer Formmail, but it depends entirely on the hosting platform. I don't claim to be an expert in the field - minimal experience. I'd be interested to hear others suggestions.

No offense taken But before people are judged by rules, it's reasonable to tell them what the rules are.

Regarding 'Advertiser Forums' - this seems to work well on NASIOC.

Post-sale charging would, indeed, be difficult. The 'friends reunited' approach would be required, but it's not really appropriate here.

Good point SiDHEaD - some moderation leaves no visible evidence. I think I had a post deleted from this thread! However, being that we're end-users that will always be the case. Users can only comment on what they can see and prove.

Yes, addition of cancellation of SN+ accounts for misbehaviour would probably act as a deterrent. Could/would/should this be added retrospectively to existing SN+ people? Would annual renewal of subscription automatically require acceptance of current T&Cs?

ex-webby

PS.. THANK YOU once again to everyone who has emailed.. I simply can't keep up at present, but I really appreciate it.

BoxerFlat4

Simon -

You and I have had our differences, but I think this is a very positive step in the right direction, and I salute you for realising it needed doing. My brief thoughts :-

My view is the SN is a forum that has grown up very quickly, and suffered some growth pains as a result. I think an appropriate metaphor is that it started as a "Garage", where like-minded petrol-heads met up and discussed the marque. As it expanded, it developed other areas, Classifieds as the "Market", General as the "Pub", Muppet forum as the "Playground" etc. My view is, Scoobynet can be considered a little village, with each forum behaving like a specialised area of the village.

Problem was/is, that what is deemed acceptable behaviour in a pub or playground, isn't in a garage or market. I think your suggestion of two-tiered access to the forum as a whole is more than acceptable to most people. Some people are coming up with some fine details as to how to implement it, and so far I haven't seen any suggestions I'm radically against. Keep up the good work.

DemonDave

iTrader: (13)

Agree with the need for change and I would suggest you just do the "Quick wins" first of all and see how the community reacts. You will always get different views so maybe run some trial periods of some of the suggestions that do not involve too much effort from your side.

After realising that I have been using the service and not contributing I think I need to do two things myself:-

Sign up to the Scoobynet plus, even though I may not use the discount side, to show my support and suggest others do the same.

And rather than complain about the moderation, I will offer if you need any more moderators to volunteer if required.

Overall Scoobynet is very good not many people would have the bottle or time to keep it going so not matter what people moan about the fact it is still here and used is a good indication it isn’t doing anything that wrong!

Dave.

ex-webby

Hi All

Thank you so much.. this is fantastic.. and just the kind of atmosphere I remember from a couple of years back.

It is clear to me now that we are going to need to upgrade the software, probably to a standard off-the-shelf package like vBulletin. It has some great features and will allow us to impliment almost everything that has been suggested very quickly.

It has a cost attached to it (something like £200 for the full license) but I think it's worth the money and should pay for itself quickly.

The thing that will take the time is migrating all of the members and threads across to it, as our database is obviously completely different to the one they use.

Shaun and I will start working on this right away. It is the quickest way we will get everything up and running for everyone.

Thanks again, and please keep the feedback and suggestions coming.

Simon

BoxerFlat4

Simon -

I would also consider phpBB : similiar to vBulletin technically (MySQl/php).

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

A couple of suggestions:

- I think the moderators tend to lock threads too often, and don't simply delete posts often enough. A post that causes a whole thread to degenerate is worse than worthless - it seems a shame for the whole thread to have to die. (Simple example: someone asks how to stop a neighbour's cat sleeping on his bonnet, some moron mentions firearms, 8 posts later the thread is locked. A perfectly valid question never gets answered).

- I really like the idea of having a personal 'ignore' list, along the same lines as the VIP list. People who aren't sensitive to 'noise' wouldn't have to use it, while those who are would be free to block whoever's posts they didn't like to read. (My own ignore list would have just one user on it - a well-known character who seems to be tolerated by the majority but whose posts I normally find genuinely offensive and/or hurtful.)

SirFozzalot

Agree with having a bit of a clearout of old usernames on here. As was mentioned before, maybe after 6 months non-use they are removed or an email can be sent to them to ask if they still use Scoobynet, if not then they are deleted and the username available for use by others.

I don’t see the problem with the Muppet forum, if you don’t like the content, don’t enter, but I find it a place to release a bit of stress and have some fun without upsetting the rest of the community in the more serious forums.

Wouldn’t want to see the use of Hotmail or Yahoo email accounts banned, I understand how some people can abuse it but I use a Yahoo account myself for the following reasons,

1) because my home Pc has Tiscali and so doesn’t accept email from Scoobynet
2) I can access my yahoo address from any PC, so I can keep up with my personal email from work, or anywhere at anytime.

Agree with a lot of other stuff suggested on here too…..hopefully Scoobynet will emerge from this an even better place to visit and contribute to.

Other than that, keep up the good work guys!

class_A

Just echoing a few things that have already been said really:

- "Lite" subscription options for Forum only membership (as I don't own a Scooby)
- PayPal donation bucket to help pay for new software/servers/people's time etc.
- Tighter Terms Of Service and Moderation Guidelines
- Subscribe-to-post forums
- Wiki based FAQ editable by registered users

Good luck
Alex

Markus

Simon,
Your ideas sound bang on, things have changed since Scoobynet 1 and the early days of Scoobynet 2.

I'll admit to being a muppet and post whoring in my time, however, I first came here to learn about the scoob, and without SN I would not have learnt as much as I have, nor would I have made many many friends.

I totally agree about the increase in moderation to kill off anti-community posts, this would, not doubt require more moderators, and I'd be happy to help out if that's wanted.

Thanks for keeping the faith with SN, with the amount of flack you must get I'm half suprised you did not just decide to pack it all on and let someone else see how hard it is to try and keep everyone happy.

Brun

Dare i say it??????????
I like Scoobynet how it is

SiDHEaD

I've signed up to ScoobyNet Plus out of principal of helping the site. I don't think I will use the discount as I don't have much disposable cash at the mo, all the things I seem to buy recently are just wear and tear.

Andy

BTW,
I'm around all day doing nothing if you want more moderators

CraigH

The Pistonheads format seems to work well if you implemented a few of their ideas/structure?

EvilBevel

Simon,

It might also be good - talking about "how you remembered it" - that you yourself would again post much more as "Simon"

There was a time you only put on the webmaster hat when it was needed, and spent more time discussing the merrits (or lack of) of SO3 tyres etc

Inadvertently, you have become the schoolmaster, and that's not meant as a dig.

I know, time etc, but I gather you'd rather just have fun again on here than posting on the "tedious" bits only ?

Just an idea, no offense meant (in this case )