dosenöffner

I think the phrase is.....

As long as there is man there will be war. Albert Einstein.

The irony of that when he brought us the atomic bomb that they dropped on Japan.

Billbill

Interesting.
Why do we focus upon our "roots?"
Is it a justification of our existence?
White? Black? Brown? Red? Yellow?
Green, with possible envy?
We should all just concentrate upon the fact that we are "Homo Sapiens" instead of "SimianK!"
But then, the long tail WOULD have it's uses as an additional item of envy!

When will the Human Race finally grow up and appreciate their own very existence?
Whether you believe in evolution or Divine Entervention, this world COULD be a blue jewel in the Universe.
Our envy and attitudes of "Superiority over others" has created hate and discontent throughout history.

"My neighbor speaks differently", Unlike "My Tribe", therefor he/she is "less" than me and mine, in my eyes.
If that neighbor becomes too competitive I will have to do something about it.
The question is, "What will I feel I HAVE to do to solve MY problem?"

This has been the tribal question throughout history. When my neighbor poaches on MY hunting territory or invades my land because they have exhausted their own resources what is to be done about it.

Of course the ultimate solution has allways been war or the attempt to push them out of the area they have usurped.

Now we have sanctioned invasions, per "Legal Emmigration" and the social problems are the same.
"Illegal emmigration" is the same as it has allways been. Offensive to the tribal order.

The most effective method to continue the "illegal" take over of an area is to "Divide and Conquer" the indigenous inhabitants.
Does this have a familiar ring?

I don't know what GB has that is similiar to the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) but it is very active here in the "Divide and Conquer" department!

Billbill

There are too many of us that are "reserved" in our opinions!
Make clear, what your reservations are concerning the political climate.
By "clear" I mean you must express yourself in a rational manner.
The emotional rant only brings amused responses or negative reactions.
Clarity in thought and verbal expression will accomplish an end and/or a following.

The "radicals" are very adept at making themselves heard!!!!

moses

lol billbill my friend i aint a fecking monkey hee hee

i dont believe in a race, im a human being and humans have all colours as the beautiful flowers do

Billbill

Human Race, Moses, has nothing to do with color or geographical origin.

Leslie

Looks like you picked the right nickname Bonehead!

Doseoffner, what you say is right, it is just very convenient to blame it all on religion, especially when the person concerned is trying to find a good excuse not to follow a religion, either to others or to himself.

Les

STi VII

The one thing consistant with all religions and all wars is 'man' QED

moses

yep sti man starts it all

if u have an address i can send u a vid my mate sent me , its quiet cool and funny sti


Doseoffner sounds cool he sounds german ,my fave european people after the scots

STi VII

Moses my email address is visible in my profile now thanks.
Billbill what is wrong with knowing as much about your roots as you can find out?
It could give me the answers to so many questions that I did not know I was even asking...

Katana

Hmm I always thought that there were 3 core races, Aryan, Mongoloids and Negros (some might also say Aboriginie). The rest are just mixes of the other races. Its good to be proud of your roots. I unfortunately have all the above genes bar Aborigine which basically means that I get the worse (instead of the best) of all the races. Just the way my luck turned out.

STi VII

Raiders of the lost ark here we come LOL

http://www.history-asia.com/Himmlers...471262927.html

STi VII

'There are all numerous reasons that the Aryan Race has undergone its evolution from the primitive man to the white man in the Iranian Plateau'

from

http://www.geocities.com/aryannews/origins.htm

The Germans, eyeing vast expanses of land in Central Asia, called themselves Aryans and cried for a return to the homeland. They used the Swastika, which, as a "wheel of fire" used to be the arm of the Aryans since ancient times, as a **** symbol, to have an alibi to invade Russia. The French, the British, and the Russians found different reasons to call themselves Aryans.

So are the Germans Aryans or not then?


can of worms in my head...

moses

i dont really believe in this aryan thing mate to make yourself look superior to other races

but as the germans were aryans

so are the turks, arabs coz they are from the same descendants


this is what i believe in

the chosen people are who believe in God and obey him , the athiests wont agree


did u know the japanese believed they were a superior race too and hitler agreed they were does that make it right, no not at all , no such thing as superior race

STi VII

hmm think you have got the wrong end of the stick. I have not implied that one people is superior to another. I am just interested in seeing if there is a link that goes from Germany back to near Jordan which would explain my surname and it will entertain my idle curiosity as to where my ancestors come from. I tell you I get sick of people asking me, the first time they hear it, where my surname is from and me not being able to tell them.

moses

mate their has to be coz the persian empire was so fecking big they conquered most lands of arabia


u have to remember persian empires have risen and then fallen and risen again a few times in history

the aryan history was something like 5000 yrs ago 2000 yrs before judaism mate , so the historians say

after a few thousand yrs when they did start, they got their **** kicked from the babylonians ( iraqis) and even the asssyrians got their **** kicked from the babylonians they were a tough bunch and knocked hell out of the pharoahs too

moses

sti whats your first name i dont like calling u by the car name


http://www.iranairiatravel.com/travel/history.htm


http://www.parsicommunity.com/Religion/AryanHistory.htm



http://www.publicbookshelf.org/publi...ientp_baa.html

moses

In the Waffen-SS nearly half of the soldiers were foreigners at the end of the war. E.g. there was SS-division Galizien (Galicia) which was composed of Ukrainian volunteers, as well as SS-division Handschar which was composed of Bosnian Muslim volunteers. Waffen-SS was thus the first German multicultural army and to this day the most cosmopolitan. Apart from that there were in the regular German army the Indian Legion which was composed of 4000 Indian volunteers as well as an Arabic Corps named Freies Arabien. Spain dispatched to the eastern front the Azul-division which among others was composed of General Franco's Moroccan elite troops who some years before had taken part in getting the fascist regime to power in Spain.

---------



ss waffen had alot of bosnian muslims , their all white, it makes me sick when i read this, what the **** happened to their minds, the evil their hands had done makes me sick.




http://www.patriot.dk/aryan1.html

STi VII

Moses I am who I am...
thanks for the links

moses

your welcome buddy


ive been called a bronze hitler myself mate , but it pi55es me off i never hate a race i just hate injustice

they call me the fuhrer in some parts of uk

makes me angry

Billbill

My phylosophy has allways been, "Be who you are" and "Be the best that you can be!"
Subscribing to encestral relationships is a waste of time. They were who they were. We are what we are.
Immediate familial relationship, Parental and siblings, are our only concern as they are loved ones. (We hope.)
Beyond that? They had no concept of you and your only concept of them is historical. They made their way, in this world, in their manner. It is now up to you to make YOUR way in the best conceivable way of which you are capable.
Two or three generations down the line there might possibly be those who will make references to YOUR accomplishments. Let us hope they will be proud.

Having an all consuming pride, in your ancestral background, can be destructive to your own developement.
If you search too hard you will find things you may wish you hadn't.
There are very few of us that have decended from "Perfect" specimens of the Human race.

Go forward, from this time, and make the world a better place!!!

STi VII

I estimate that two thirds of the worlds population has seen my Dads work.
Don't know what I should do to compete with that, probably why I have felt so lost with no direction for most of my life.

I was pre-programmed from a young age to fail and give up. I was always told don't bother you will just get bored and give it up. So that is what I subconsciously did with my life until I decided to take charge of myself and find out who I am and hence my interest in my ancestral background as I believe that for me to become who I am capable of being I have to know from where I have come from...

moses

sti i was trained to help the poor, needy and helpless and the oppressed

and to bea good muslim and i trained myself to be the sexiest lover any woman could ever have

moses

sti for u mate u shall be shocked

--------------The 13th Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS Handschar is one of the most obscure Waffen-SS divisions of WWII until the 1992-95 Bosnian War prompted a reexamination of the bloody history of Yugoslavia in general and its WWII history in particular. Handschar was a Waffen-SS division of Bosnian Muslim volunteers. Its troops have a poor historical reputation, which is somewhat unjustly deserved, given the circumstances of their service.

**** Germany attacked Yugoslavia in April 1941. After the successful German blitzkrieg, most of the Axis powers - Germany, Italy, Rumania & Hungary - seized a slice of the nation for themselves, leaving the rump state of (rabidly) fascist Croatia and a German puppet Serbia. But by July 1941, 2 separate antifascist rebellions arose in the country - the Serbian royalist "Chetniks" and the Communist "partisans."

Never the most stable of nations with its volitile ethnic mix, Yugoslavia rapidly descended into a hellish combustion of conflicts:
global (Allies vs. Axis)
political (communist vs. monarchist vs. fascist)
ethnic/tribal (Croat vs. Serbian vs. Bosnian Muslim vs.volksdeutsche)
territorial (German, Italian, Rumanian, Hungarian all against Yugoslav)
Bosnia's Muslim population (a cultural legacy of centuries of Ottoman rule) suffered terribly. Both the Ustashe (Croatian fascists) and Chetniks attacked and massacred defenseless Bosnian Muslims. Some Bosnians appealed to Hitler to make Bosnia a German protectorate, if only to protect them from their bloodthirsty countrymen. Reichführer-SS Heinrich Himmler, always on the lookout for more Waffen-SS volunteers, immediately became interested in creating a Bosnian "SS recruiting zone". Himmler threw out all the "Aryan" master race ideology with his efforts to woo Bosniak volunteers. Bosnian Muslims, according to Himmler, were "racially" Aryan but "culturally" Turkish; he continued with some flimsy arguments regarding Bosnian service in the Austro-Hungarian military as justification for their service in the Waffen-SS. Besides, a Bosnian Muslim division would be good for Germany's relations with Turkey and with the world's Muslim population (much of it under the yoke of the British Empire!)

The Handschar division was raised in 1943, with a number of exceptions from standard Waffen-SS practices, including Imams (Muslim clerics that functioned as chaplains), Fez headgear, special rations (e.g. no pork) and a revised ideological curriculum light on the "master race" talk but stressing the ****-Muslim friendship. The purpose of the division, in Himmler's words, was to "restore order to the ridiculous Croatian state," and most of its volunteers joined the division in order to protect their homes and families from Ustashe/Chetnik and Partisan attacks. But Handschar was born under a bad sign, and suffered from fascist Croatian interference (who felt that SS recruitment in Bosnian violated their sovereignty) and even a small-scale mutiny during training in France instigated by Partisans who had infiltrated the ranks.

By March 1944, the division was posted to the Srem area of Bosnia and engaged in multiple antipartisan sweeps. When closely supervised by its German officers, Handschar troops performed well; however, the steadily worsening German military situation, the growing strength of the Partisans, the uncomfortable temporary alliance with Chetniks and the division's transfer to Croatia combined to produce a rapid free-fall of the volunteer's reliability. By September 1944, thousands of the division's troops had deserted to the Partisans. By November 1944, the division disbanded, with a remnant of German/volkdeutsche members forming a kampfgruppe for combat in Hungary.

---


http://www.wssob.com/013divhnd.html

moses

if hitler and himmler were still alive they would have loved the suicide bombers

http://www.feldgrau.com/13ss.html


--------------13.Waffen-Gebirgs-Division der SS "Handschar" (kroat.Nr.1)

Lineage Kroatische-SS-Freiwilligen-Division

Kroatische SS-Freiwilligen-Gebrigs-Division

13.SS-Freiwilligen-bosn.herzogow.Gebrigs-Division (Kroatien)

13.Waffen-Gebrigs-Division der SS "Handschar" (kroatische Nr.1)


Traditions The title given to this unit comes from a Handschar (or Handzar in Croatian), which is a curved Turkish sword, otherwise known as the Scimitar. This sword has historically been the symbol of Bosnia.
Campaigns Balkans 1944-1945

Austria 1945


History When the Independant State of Croatia proclaimed its independance on April 10th 1941, during the German invasion of Yugoslavia, part of the land it claimed was the former Austro-Hungarian province of Bosnia-Herzegovina (Bosna i Hercegovina). The province was an ethnic and religious mix, with a portion of the population being Catholic Croatian, a portion being Orthodox Serbian, and a portion being Croatians of the Muslim faith. It was these Muslim inhabitants of Bosnia that Himmler and the SS would target in their recruitment of a Croatian SS Division (although a portion of the future division's men would be Catholic Croatian as well).

The reasons for the recruitment in particular of Croatian Muslims by the SS were many-fold. For one, Himmler was fascinated by the Islamic faith, and thought Muslims to be fearless soldiers. Himmler also subscribed to the propaganda theory that Croatians (and therefore the Croatian Muslims) were not, in fact, Slavic people, but actually of Aryan (Gothic) descent, and thereby acceptable to the racially "pure" SS. The fact that this ludicrous theory would not hold up to any kind of serious scrutiny was conveniently ignored. Finally, the Germans were hoping to rally the World's 350 million Muslims to their side, in a struggle against the British Empire. The creation of a Muslim, albeit European Muslim Division, was considered a stepping stone to this greater end.

Adolf Hitler approved of Himmler's idea on February 13th 1943. Prior to the formation of the division, however, approval also had to be granted by the Croatian government, as their citizens were to be recruited, and on Croatian territory. The Croatian Poglavnik, Ante Pavelic, and his ministers had many problems with the idea, but eventually agreed to the division's creation on March 5th 1943. The divisional strength reached the required 26,000 men by mid 1943, though not all men were volunteers (some being begged, bribed and outright kidnapped into service). Also, 2,800 of the men were Catholic Croatians and not Muslim.

The new division was assigned the number "13", and originally named the "13 SS Frei.Gebirgs Division (kroatien). The full name "13 Waffen-Gebirgs-Division der SS 'Handschar' (kroatische Nr. 1)" was not given until May, 1944. A "Handschar" (or Handzar in Croatian) is curved Turkish sword - the Scimitar. This sword has historically been the symbol of Bosnia. The Division was to have 2 Infantry Regiments (Waffen-Gebirgs-Jager Regiments der SS 27 & 28 - kroatisches Nrs. 1 & 2), an Artillery Regiment (SS-Gebirgs-Artillerie Regiment 13), a Reconnaisance Company, a Panzerjager Company, a Flak Company, a Pioneer Battalion, and other support units; and was designated an SS "mountain" division. The first commander (from March 9, 1943 till August 1, 1943) was SS Standartenfuhrer Herbert von Obwurzer. Oberfuhrer (later Brigadefuhrer) Karl-Gustav Sauberzweig took over till June 1st 1944, when Desiderius Hampel (Oberfuhrer, later Brigadefuhrer) replaced him. Hampel commanded the remnants of the division until its surrender on May 8th 1945.

The uniform worn by the division was regular SS issue, with a divisional collar patch showing an arm, holding a Scimitar, over a Swastika. On the left arm was a Croatian armshield (red-white chessboard). Headgear was the Muslim Fez, in field grey (normal service) or red ("walking out"), with the SS eagle and death's head emblazoned. Non-Muslim members could opt to wear the normal SS mountain cap. The oval mountain troop Edelweiss patch was worn on the right arm.

The division departed for training in occupied France, where the full complement arrived by September 1943. It was at Villefranche, during this period of training, that the division became the only SS Division to mutiny. Much has been made of this, however, while it is true that some German officers were killed during the mutiny, the fact is that only very few soldiers participated in the uprising. Fault can be squarely placed on 3 Communists, infiltrated into the ranks of the division, and a handfull of malcontents. Not only did a great majority of the troops not participate in the rebellion, but most either had no idea it was happening, or actively helped to quash it. 14 soldiers were executed as mutineers.

By mid-February 1944, the division finished its training (some time was spent at Neuhammer, Germany for training), and was sent back to Bosnia for active service (against Communist Partisans). Its area of operation was northeastern Bosnia, western Serbia, and southern Sirmium. The division participated in several anti-Partisan operations (such as "Wegweiser", "Save", "Osterei", "Maibaum", "Maiglockchen" etc.). Some successes were achieved, and overall the "Handschar" showed itself as a competent anti-guerilla unit.

With the penetration of the Red Army up to the Croatian borders in late 1944, the Division was trasfered to southern Hungary, and became involved in front-line fighting. Desertions plagued the Division from this point on, as many of the Muslims decided to return to Bosnia to protect their homes and families. The men who remained contiuned to fight valiantly against overwhelming odds, and were slowly pushed westward out of Hungary into Austria. The remnants of the division surrendered to British troops on May 8th 1945.

--------------------------------------------




did u know their is a club for the elderly ss waffen in austria till this day and they get together every week and an undercover reporter in austria went in and they praised bin laden and had his posters their too , no bull i will try to find u the original article

and u remember the videotape the american us soldiers found of bin laden praising the twin towers and he said the day 9/11 had happened 6 dutch converted to islam, guess what they converted to extremism not islam, to them bin ladens version was islam and those 6 dutch men were neo *****


so its going in circles and its all fecked up, its doing my brain, wtf is happening , **** is a **** their *******s , the whole world is screwed up

Billbill

Brace yourself Moses, not the WHOLE world.
Only that extremist portion that the "normal" inhabitants would like to avoid.
We are burrying our heads in the sand.
It is, once again, the extremists against the rest of the world.
The followers of ANY estremist individual, whether political or pseudo religious.
Those of us with a modicum of intelligence understand the difference. That being an agenda that wishes to subjugate others or pressure them into a non productive manner of conducting their lives.
Etherial aspirations, promises of an afterlife full of rewards, capitalization of opressive individuals to be leaders, twisting "truths" to fit an agenda.
Murder and torture rationalized because those being harmed are undeserving of "rewards!"

Read into the extremist agenda and see if you fit. If you don't..........
But above all, do not deceive YOURSELF.

moses

i agree dude , its gonna get worse