View Poll Results: How do you want the For Sale Section to work?
Leave it as it is
57
23.75%
Make For Sale General FOC
183
76.25%
Voters: 240. You may not vote on this poll
FOR SALE FORUMS - The way forward
05 February 2004, 07:58 PM
#32
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S.B.
At the time of my post, if your idea of 28% is big, I'd like to hear your description of 72%
Anyway I'd wait till the poll gets to a couple of thousand before any real conclusion can be had
At the time of my post, if your idea of 28% is big, I'd like to hear your description of 72%
Anyway I'd wait till the poll gets to a couple of thousand before any real conclusion can be had
05 February 2004, 08:01 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Jay m A
S.B.
At the time of my post, if your idea of 28% is big, I'd like to hear your description of 72%
At the time of my post, if your idea of 28% is big, I'd like to hear your description of 72%
05 February 2004, 08:08 PM
#34
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Simon I totally get the more airtime idea, but the for sale forums have been totally dead since this change. I havent been on since last night and about 10 topics have had new posts it used to be 50+
If the for sale is split between car parts, general and cars (perhaps even more like a styling, tuning, electronics divide) then all the posts will get more air time. But you will also get more people usoing it than those currently on it.
I think all this system will do is give ebay more business and make buying quality scooby parts a damn sight harder and more expensive. (if 1 person rather than 3 is selling the same item they won't need to lower the price to compete etc which is what makes SN great :d )
I assume an ebay style charge on expensive items sold is out of the question? Or perhaps charge for access to the cars for sale part. Paying £10 extra on a £10,000 sale is hardly as painful as on a set of side repeaters you wanted to sell for £15
If the for sale is split between car parts, general and cars (perhaps even more like a styling, tuning, electronics divide) then all the posts will get more air time. But you will also get more people usoing it than those currently on it.
I think all this system will do is give ebay more business and make buying quality scooby parts a damn sight harder and more expensive. (if 1 person rather than 3 is selling the same item they won't need to lower the price to compete etc which is what makes SN great :d )
I assume an ebay style charge on expensive items sold is out of the question? Or perhaps charge for access to the cars for sale part. Paying £10 extra on a £10,000 sale is hardly as painful as on a set of side repeaters you wanted to sell for £15
05 February 2004, 09:29 PM
#35
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FOC would be good, but accept that almost any other place (non internet) you have to pay to advertise things for sale.
However, it would be nice for definite if the wanted section was left FOC - why charge for people to let prospective sellers know they want something (one assumes also the many authorised advertisers look in here from time to time too)
However, it would be nice for definite if the wanted section was left FOC - why charge for people to let prospective sellers know they want something (one assumes also the many authorised advertisers look in here from time to time too)
05 February 2004, 09:34 PM
#36
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No one likes to pay for something that they used to get for free, but is the £25 membership which includes a years advertising/selling such a huge cost. I don't think so, I use ebay to sell lots of items and 2 months worth of sales has cost me well over £25.
Last edited by sillysi; 05 February 2004 at 09:36 PM.
05 February 2004, 10:50 PM
#39
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Since the 25 quid fee has been introduced we are swamped with traders like Fulham spamming us by trying flog anything from Beko fridges to bin bags full of dodgy versace jumpers. This is a subaru forum ffs , leave it how it was.
Example number 1 - I have some crystal refelctors that I wanted to sell. I want 20 quid but it costs me 25 quid to setup an account. I have to now resort to e-bay because this is probably the only thing I would sell on the forum this year. The 'Ye Old' for sale section had an element of trust associated with it. I know of noone who was scammed or ripped by sellers. The morale of the story is -
'If it aint broke then dont fix it!!!'
Example number 1 - I have some crystal refelctors that I wanted to sell. I want 20 quid but it costs me 25 quid to setup an account. I have to now resort to e-bay because this is probably the only thing I would sell on the forum this year. The 'Ye Old' for sale section had an element of trust associated with it. I know of noone who was scammed or ripped by sellers. The morale of the story is -
'If it aint broke then dont fix it!!!'
05 February 2004, 11:01 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by Ru$$Rip
Since the 25 quid fee has been introduced we are swamped with traders like Fulham spamming us by trying flog anything from Beko fridges to bin bags full of dodgy versace jumpers. This is a subaru forum ffs , leave it how it was.
Example number 1 - I have some crystal refelctors that I wanted to sell. I want 20 quid but it costs me 25 quid to setup an account. I have to now resort to e-bay because this is probably the only thing I would sell on the forum this year. The 'Ye Old' for sale section had an element of trust associated with it. I know of noone who was scammed or ripped by sellers. The morale of the story is -
'If it aint broke then dont fix it!!!'
Example number 1 - I have some crystal refelctors that I wanted to sell. I want 20 quid but it costs me 25 quid to setup an account. I have to now resort to e-bay because this is probably the only thing I would sell on the forum this year. The 'Ye Old' for sale section had an element of trust associated with it. I know of noone who was scammed or ripped by sellers. The morale of the story is -
'If it aint broke then dont fix it!!!'
.............................. ........................................ ... ........................... .......................
05 February 2004, 11:07 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by Ru$$Rip
Since the 25 quid fee has been introduced we are swamped with traders like Fulham spamming us by trying flog anything from Beko fridges to bin bags full of dodgy versace jumpers. This is a subaru forum ffs , leave it how it was.
Example number 1 - I have some crystal refelctors that I wanted to sell. I want 20 quid but it costs me 25 quid to setup an account. I have to now resort to e-bay because this is probably the only thing I would sell on the forum this year. The 'Ye Old' for sale section had an element of trust associated with it. I know of noone who was scammed or ripped by sellers. The morale of the story is -
'If it aint broke then dont fix it!!!'
Example number 1 - I have some crystal refelctors that I wanted to sell. I want 20 quid but it costs me 25 quid to setup an account. I have to now resort to e-bay because this is probably the only thing I would sell on the forum this year. The 'Ye Old' for sale section had an element of trust associated with it. I know of noone who was scammed or ripped by sellers. The morale of the story is -
'If it aint broke then dont fix it!!!'
I can sell what I want in the forum cant I ?
I sell plenty of Subaru items plus the occasional other item !
I have not spammed you on any occasion I merely posted an Item for sale & its up to you if you want to read it or not !
I dont understand why you have found it necessary to launch a personal attack ????
05 February 2004, 11:46 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by Fulham71
What is your problem mate ?
I can sell what I want in the forum cant I ?
I sell plenty of Subaru items plus the occasional other item !
I have not spammed you on any occasion I merely posted an Item for sale & its up to you if you want to read it or not !
I dont understand why you have found it necessary to launch a personal attack ????
I can sell what I want in the forum cant I ?
I sell plenty of Subaru items plus the occasional other item !
I have not spammed you on any occasion I merely posted an Item for sale & its up to you if you want to read it or not !
I dont understand why you have found it necessary to launch a personal attack ????
This needs to be taken to fight club, oh i forgot he's not a member
Last edited by rb5037; 05 February 2004 at 11:54 PM. Reason: coz i can't spell
05 February 2004, 11:52 PM
#45
A couple of rules that I'd like to see to be added to the terms and conditions of the For Sale section if it was ever to be FOC:
No BTTT.......it's probably the most irritating most selfish thing that ocurred in "For Sale"
Subrau related items/parts/cars only - after all this is a subaru site!
Private Advertising only: no traders unless they actually show that they are traders
I'll probably think up half a dozen more, but that'll do for now
No BTTT.......it's probably the most irritating most selfish thing that ocurred in "For Sale"
Subrau related items/parts/cars only - after all this is a subaru site!
Private Advertising only: no traders unless they actually show that they are traders
I'll probably think up half a dozen more, but that'll do for now
Last edited by ALi-B; 05 February 2004 at 11:53 PM. Reason: grammar this grammar that!
06 February 2004, 01:53 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by Ru$$Rip
Example number 1 - I have some crystal refelctors that I wanted to sell. I want 20 quid but it costs me 25 quid to setup an account. I have to now resort to e-bay
The attitute that some people have that they have to pay £25 to sell something suggests to me that these people arent interested in the rest of the benefits the site has to offer, and arent interested in the benefits of subscription, and dont intend to contribute much to the rest of the site - or only do in passing while trying to flog more gear. And at the end of the day, as this is a Subaru community first and foremost, people that use this site primarily to flog their old tat arent exactly going to be missed that much by most people if they do not come back.
Originally Posted by Ru$$Rip
The morale of the story is -
'If it aint broke then dont fix it!!!'
'If it aint broke then dont fix it!!!'
People dont like change - within minutes of Snet 3 being up people were slagging it off, without giving it a chance, and having a go about colours and unimportant stuff that can be amended and changed when everyone is happy in the content and format. For the people that have left already, that is their loss - as SImon et al have basically said since Snet 3 went up, this isnt the final rendition of Snet - it will be tweaked, refined and altered as everyone gets used to it and makes their minds up. IMO, the people that have left already are probably no great loss however long they have been on here and whatever input they have had, as they arent putting anything in now are they?
Sorry, rant over now
- got a bit carried away there!!!John
Last edited by JohnMcC; 06 February 2004 at 01:56 AM.
06 February 2004, 01:56 AM
#47
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Subrau related items/parts/cars only - after all this is a subaru site!
so that was a Scooby related sale i guess?
Owain
never had a Scooby, won't have for a long time if ever... but one of the community i think....????
06 February 2004, 07:04 AM
#48
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webmaster said : "That's an interesting and valid thing to pick up on. We took a decision 2 weeks ago that we did not care if a proportion of "traffic" was lost.. all we want to do is keep financially viable and support the true community. So if it stops people arriving, we have absolutely no issue with it, as long as it makes the place better and more future proof for the core community."
I can see where you are coming from but by reducing the level of traffic to a mere trickle, particularly in the 'For Sale' forum (never mind the rest of the place), you fail in your objective to make the place better and more future proof for the community.
IMHO the level of traffic that scoobynet once had is exactly what made it a great place. When you wanted the answer to some arcane question you could post it up and have a response within minutes usually. Hardly likely to be the case at the moment more's the pity.
In short by improving the BBS software (and it is undoubtedly far better) you have managed to lose the 'X' factor that made scoobynet a shining star in a galaxy of mediocre BBS's. Let's hope the place recovers soon. The best place to start would be winning back some of the traffic that has been lost.
I can see where you are coming from but by reducing the level of traffic to a mere trickle, particularly in the 'For Sale' forum (never mind the rest of the place), you fail in your objective to make the place better and more future proof for the community.
IMHO the level of traffic that scoobynet once had is exactly what made it a great place. When you wanted the answer to some arcane question you could post it up and have a response within minutes usually. Hardly likely to be the case at the moment more's the pity.
In short by improving the BBS software (and it is undoubtedly far better) you have managed to lose the 'X' factor that made scoobynet a shining star in a galaxy of mediocre BBS's. Let's hope the place recovers soon. The best place to start would be winning back some of the traffic that has been lost.
06 February 2004, 08:23 AM
#49
After 100 Genuine Posts?
This is a good idea, but would be an admin nightmare. How do we tell if they are genuine posts, without going through every one, of them. Between 12 and 25 people a day hit 100 posts, it would just take too much time to monitor. In addition, a post count is a bad way of deciding if someone is genuine or not.. some very valuable members have take anything between an afternoon, to 2 years to reach that post count.
Free to post some items, and not others.
Again, a great idea in principle, but... For Sale, "Packet of Peanuts" £13k ono, with free STi V. It would be impossible to keep track of and people would abuse it.. this example is just one of the millions of ways this could be achieved. The measures we are putting in place must reduce the burden on the moderator team and this would increase it.
Sell one type of thing for £1, and Cars for £5, etc, etc.
Take the packet of peanuts example. It's just too difficult to administer, and too easy to abuse.
Reducing Traffic to a mere trickle
I am talking about the traffic across scoobynet, not just the for sale forum. If it reduces to a mere trickle, the whole thing will have failed. We have SO MUCH traffic, however, that it really wouldn't affect things if we lost say 3 million hits a month or something. What we are hoping is that, due to the new focus of scoobynet and the clear sign that the true community is coming out to speak up, that these 3 million hits will be from people that we'd rather not have around anyway.
The Level of traffic that scoobynet ONCE had?
After the launch of SN3, our traffic dropped by about 10% on the previous weeks average (which was the biggest week we'd ever had - as is the case for every week, as traffic increases weekly, almost without fail). Yesterday saw the traffic back to last week's average. Basically, the traffic has not changed.
X Factor
I do agree that the simple and raw layout of SN2 was something that gave ScoobyNet part of it's character and appeal, but hey, times move on.. we'll all find out soon if it really IS the actual community that makes this place, or if it's the software and servers. This software is just as capable of being used to discuss any subject.
----
I think we're look like moving towards FOC for sale general, which is fair enough.
Last chance to get your votes in.
All the best
Simon
This is a good idea, but would be an admin nightmare. How do we tell if they are genuine posts, without going through every one, of them. Between 12 and 25 people a day hit 100 posts, it would just take too much time to monitor. In addition, a post count is a bad way of deciding if someone is genuine or not.. some very valuable members have take anything between an afternoon, to 2 years to reach that post count.
Free to post some items, and not others.
Again, a great idea in principle, but... For Sale, "Packet of Peanuts" £13k ono, with free STi V. It would be impossible to keep track of and people would abuse it.. this example is just one of the millions of ways this could be achieved. The measures we are putting in place must reduce the burden on the moderator team and this would increase it.
Sell one type of thing for £1, and Cars for £5, etc, etc.
Take the packet of peanuts example. It's just too difficult to administer, and too easy to abuse.
Reducing Traffic to a mere trickle
I am talking about the traffic across scoobynet, not just the for sale forum. If it reduces to a mere trickle, the whole thing will have failed. We have SO MUCH traffic, however, that it really wouldn't affect things if we lost say 3 million hits a month or something. What we are hoping is that, due to the new focus of scoobynet and the clear sign that the true community is coming out to speak up, that these 3 million hits will be from people that we'd rather not have around anyway.
The Level of traffic that scoobynet ONCE had?
After the launch of SN3, our traffic dropped by about 10% on the previous weeks average (which was the biggest week we'd ever had - as is the case for every week, as traffic increases weekly, almost without fail). Yesterday saw the traffic back to last week's average. Basically, the traffic has not changed.
X Factor
I do agree that the simple and raw layout of SN2 was something that gave ScoobyNet part of it's character and appeal, but hey, times move on.. we'll all find out soon if it really IS the actual community that makes this place, or if it's the software and servers. This software is just as capable of being used to discuss any subject.
----
I think we're look like moving towards FOC for sale general, which is fair enough.
Last chance to get your votes in.
All the best
Simon
06 February 2004, 09:09 AM
#50
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Great New Site - No longer enough content
Is it just me, but are things moving a lot slower now there is a charge for the For Sale Section?
I understand market forces, but have been shocked at the change that this had had. I have always and will continue to log on every day - but it is getting to the point at the moment that there is never anything new to read.
It was always clear that the For Sale section was the fastest moving area - with the most common interest for scooby owners - no longer.
Scoobynet would always have been my first choice for selling stuff (scooby related) - I see this as almost a service to the scoobynet community - allowing us to buy decent stuff that we know we are interested in - before its offered to other muppets on ebay.
The charging structure on ebay is far more aggressive - yes they get millions of users, but they are the competition.
It would just be a shame if less people visited this great site.
Steve
I understand market forces, but have been shocked at the change that this had had. I have always and will continue to log on every day - but it is getting to the point at the moment that there is never anything new to read.
It was always clear that the For Sale section was the fastest moving area - with the most common interest for scooby owners - no longer.
Scoobynet would always have been my first choice for selling stuff (scooby related) - I see this as almost a service to the scoobynet community - allowing us to buy decent stuff that we know we are interested in - before its offered to other muppets on ebay.
The charging structure on ebay is far more aggressive - yes they get millions of users, but they are the competition.
It would just be a shame if less people visited this great site.
Steve
06 February 2004, 09:16 AM
#51
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Simon
Keep it exactly the way it is but introduce the old "for sale" forum for none SN+ members and let them advertise free. The SN+ advertisers get to use the three they have now but also get a "sticky" on the first page of the old forum so they dont have to keep chasing it from page 6
Pete
Keep it exactly the way it is but introduce the old "for sale" forum for none SN+ members and let them advertise free. The SN+ advertisers get to use the three they have now but also get a "sticky" on the first page of the old forum so they dont have to keep chasing it from page 6
Pete
06 February 2004, 10:09 AM
#53
Hi All
Thank you for your input and votes.
The for sale general forum, is now open to all FOC. The additional classified forums are the bonus extras available for subscribing members.
We will also be posting some further guidelines around BTT, to make this unacceptable.
All the best
Simon
Thank you for your input and votes.
The for sale general forum, is now open to all FOC. The additional classified forums are the bonus extras available for subscribing members.
We will also be posting some further guidelines around BTT, to make this unacceptable.
All the best
Simon
06 February 2004, 10:09 AM
#54
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I believe the For Sale section to be the most used / abused forum on here. The whole point of going to a paid subscription is better is to improve the service to people who are members.
To make it free is a step backwards for those members perhaps.
I would suggest the wanted section is free to post in. However, I would suggest that only members can reply. Hence members do not lose out and the wanted will not be abused by non-members. With the ability of only members being able to start a thread they lose their audience. Reverse of the for sale where anyone can reply so they have a larger selling base.
The for sale should have an area for items under say £50 or £100 are free to advertise. This area would need a bit of moderation (downside) and all threads non-conforming should be deleted not moved.
That way people can sell their Dawes device.
To make it free is a step backwards for those members perhaps.
I would suggest the wanted section is free to post in. However, I would suggest that only members can reply. Hence members do not lose out and the wanted will not be abused by non-members. With the ability of only members being able to start a thread they lose their audience. Reverse of the for sale where anyone can reply so they have a larger selling base.
The for sale should have an area for items under say £50 or £100 are free to advertise. This area would need a bit of moderation (downside) and all threads non-conforming should be deleted not moved.
That way people can sell their Dawes device.
06 February 2004, 10:13 AM
#55
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Webmaster
Not wishing to sound harsh
BUT some people will have signed up to scoobynet plus purely to use the for sale forums in the last week !
Do they now have the opportunity to get their money back ?
Not wishing to sound harsh
BUT some people will have signed up to scoobynet plus purely to use the for sale forums in the last week !
Do they now have the opportunity to get their money back ?
06 February 2004, 10:20 AM
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I agree Paul. False advertising or bad luck?
It can only be seen as a money grabbing exercise. It is a little insulting to those who have signed up. Even the Google Ads can not be turned off by Plus members which was what kicked all this off on SN2.
As has been said all along the people who won't sign up or those who complain are the minority. This must be a lie also as they have had the final say.
Not much good faith being built here.
It can only be seen as a money grabbing exercise. It is a little insulting to those who have signed up. Even the Google Ads can not be turned off by Plus members which was what kicked all this off on SN2.
As has been said all along the people who won't sign up or those who complain are the minority. This must be a lie also as they have had the final say.
Not much good faith being built here.
06 February 2004, 10:24 AM
#58
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Following the results of the poll and feedback in this thread, the For Sale General forum is now available to all FOC.
Anyone for a Florida by election?
For the record. I did vote and I voted to keep them paying members only.
I have posted something for sale since though. Make hay while the sun shines.
Apologies to all members.
Last edited by dosenöffner; 06 February 2004 at 10:26 AM.
06 February 2004, 10:27 AM
#59
For goodness sake. Damned if you do, damned if you don't!
OK, shall we switch it back to being subscription only?
The extra you get by subscribing is by being able to use the premium for sale forums. The For Sale general will still be fast moving, where as the subscription forums will generally contain higher quality and lower quantity (the old signal / noise ratio thing again).
Please, please, please.. for the one or two people who seem to attack us no matter whatever we do, could you please finally support us, now that we've bent over backwards to make things how you want them.
---
We have NEVER said that the people who don't sign up are the minority we don't care about. We have ALWAYS said that signing up to a subscritpion service does not make you part of the true decent community. We have indeed said that those who moan and whinge continuously are the ones we are not interested in, and that is still the case.
The people who have spoken out and voted here, are not moaning and whinging, as on the whole they have been putting sincere and constructive suggestions forwards.
"Not much good faith being built here". You're telling me!
I'm moving my attention on to other matters now.
Regards
Simon
OK, shall we switch it back to being subscription only?
The extra you get by subscribing is by being able to use the premium for sale forums. The For Sale general will still be fast moving, where as the subscription forums will generally contain higher quality and lower quantity (the old signal / noise ratio thing again).
Please, please, please.. for the one or two people who seem to attack us no matter whatever we do, could you please finally support us, now that we've bent over backwards to make things how you want them.
---
We have NEVER said that the people who don't sign up are the minority we don't care about. We have ALWAYS said that signing up to a subscritpion service does not make you part of the true decent community. We have indeed said that those who moan and whinge continuously are the ones we are not interested in, and that is still the case.
The people who have spoken out and voted here, are not moaning and whinging, as on the whole they have been putting sincere and constructive suggestions forwards.
"Not much good faith being built here". You're telling me!
I'm moving my attention on to other matters now.
Regards
Simon
