RICH WILD

Sorry, I've no at the wheels figures.

Seeing as most people deal with power at the fly, then it's not something that is given by the RR operators unless specifically asked for.

To be honest, I was so excited by my figures, I forgot to ask

Rich

RICH WILD

IIRC about 18months ago I dynoed my UK96 there which has the same gearing as this car.

In that car I got 331 at the fly and 255 at the wheels, I think.

And if i'm not mistaken around the same time harvey did the same and got very similar results to me as I remember us faxing graphs back and forth.

Thanks

Rich

Cosworth427

The power at the wheels proves everything (the performance, whether or not the injectors are capable of the flywheel power), the extrapolated flywheel figure is useless.

Lord Fraud

wow, top results

currymonster

Oops, didnt mean to diss anyones car, I can't give examples, but people who have compared road results have commented on this before. My own MY00 was rolling roaded there before I picked it up as 230 BHP. That was on poop 95 RON unleaded from down the road, with an ITG panel filter, scoobysport downpipe and rear box. However the turbo wasnt spooling up properly due to the downpipe/ fitting of downpipe as when the standard was replaced the car flew. just pointing out my experience of a very optimistic figure 205-210 was more like it as the car wasnt running right,

Cal

Lord Fraud

i recently brought my first scooby after being at well lane a couple of months ago with my rs turbo

was a guy there with a really nice sti 7 who made 437 bhp and about 400 lb torque, the thing was about ripping the rollers out the floor, WHAT A CAR, top bloke aswell, thanks to a chat with him i brought my scooby, if this was one of u cheers

he reckoned it was the most powerful one in the country, did he mean that shape or all scoobys?

RICH WILD

He must have meant of that shape.

585 is the highest for a classic at Well Lane.

Rich

scooby-si

harvey i think iam going to see DR bob


lord thats gadet daz m8 with the sti7

harvey

iTrader: (48)

Good move Si. Be interesting if you had before and after figures on the same rollers too.
Unfortunately as JB has already hinted, the VF23 is not a big power turbo but the good news is that with your mods it would not take a lot to get good power and suitable turbos are available for not a lot of money if you take into account the sale of your existing unit.
Let us know how you get on and e-mail me if you need any help.

scooby-si

harvey wot u reacon to garret t66 and 550injectors that should do the trick??

treebeard

Come on people, rolling roads measure torque at the wheels. They do not and cannot measure flywheel power, end of.

RICH WILD

Lord Fraud

the bloke who works on the rollers at well lane told me that their rollers calculate transmission loss and works out flywheel figures actually

anyway, mines only got 215 bhp supposedley, but who cares LOL

Harveys sounds like a monster

Dazza's-STi

Q. What did the other STi PPP cars run... in as much standard for as pos please..
Was a bit with the torque figure 278 i think but pulled 313 bhp... Any of you guys who know your stuff got any ideas why the touque wasn't upto the PPP claim! Do you think i SHOULD have the ECU reset...?

What do you guys in the know! think about the PPP map?????
I get the impression that the map isn't particulary good... is that really the case!

Is thier a real noticable differnce having another map, and is that differnce worth mincing the warranty for... It would take some real benefit for me to waver the warranty i think...

Help

Dazza

Lord Fraud

i got told by that gadget daz that a guy called bob rawle at br developments is the king of all mappers, he's the best for advise, either that or speak to harvey by the look of it, bearing in mind he has 500 odd bhp

harvey

iTrader: (48)

No idea what a T66 is. Think you have 440s which could get you over 350 bhp with the right turbo and set up before you go for 550s.
Where are you based. Really need to look at the car to give you the best advice.

Very good point about torque. The reading for all three RRs in a 30 hour period were 375 or 376 ft.lbs.

john banks

T66 at >1000CFM is a little on the large side scooby-si. You'd probably need over 1000cc injectors to handle that on full chat and the 2.2 would not be big enough to extract the best from it unless you were making a drag only car IMHO.

drb5

iTrader: (4)

good on you rich wild and dont let anyone get to you. you have the figure to prove it and no-one can say otherwise



and sorry for jumping on the thread and askin a stoopid question, but what injectors do i have in me car? it's a my'99. think the top is either yellow or grey? dont know which bit of the injector tells you and what power can they put up with? cheers

john banks

They are 440 injectors. Using figures I've collected at Star they should be good at standard fuel pressure for 440*4/5.5 = 320 BHP. If you can use only 4.1cc/BHP as Rich's results then you could get 429 BHP at standard fuel pressure.

To work out the effect of increased fuel pressure, square root the fractional increase in base pressure.

RICH WILD

Thanks drb5

You are a gent.

harvey

iTrader: (48)

I entrust my mapping to Bo Rawle and he is the expert on most systems. Link, Motec, EcuTek etc.
Andy F. is the man if you have Apexi or Microtech.
As a rule of thumb I work out the injector requirement by multiplying the rating by .8
Grey = 380cc = 304bhp Yellow = 440cc = 352bhp Blue/Purple = 550cc = 440bhp and Red = 740cc = 592bhp.
This is just rule of thumb and as Rich has shown it is possible with a few tricks to get more.
I have found it is best to run at 85% injector duty cycles (IDCs) but bear in mind that injectors can run way beyond 100%
You also need the correct supporting mods and in my experience that is where most people fall down. They have not worked it out from start to finish so that each mod. compliments the next and they all support an overall package.

Without seeing Si's car it is hard to say but I think that if everything is in order, then with 550 injectors and a TD05-06 20G from Andy Forrest then he needs to be looking for 420-440bhp and anything less means there is room for improvement in several places I would expect.

Si. Where are you based?

Hope this info is helpful to the newer members of the board.

323GTR

?

Can you explain how it's possible to run beyond 100% IDC, ie injector fully open 100% of the time? I was at Well Lane on the day you recorded the 585BHP, you've certainly achieved a hell of a lot with that car, but I think exceeding 100% duty cycle may be beyond even you

scooby-si

thx john

so if i put the t66 with a 2.5ltr and 1000cc injectors this should be ok

its just for when i sell the 22b

harvey can u mail me your phone number please m8,ive lost it


simon.houghton1@ntlworld.com

thx

simon

scooby-si

for got to say nice result rich

john banks

You can't exceed a genuine 100% IDC. If the ECU reports higher it either means:

1. It wants to run over 100% based on its calculations (but can't beat a direct current as pointed out)
or
2. The time the ECU considers that is available for injection is only part of the time that injection can occur over. At high airflows there is no huge problem with squirting all the time. The high impedance injectors used on our cars don't get that hot and I've not heard of any running static. Also you are on WOT for a very short time anyway. So 100% IDC may not be the problem it is commonly thought to be.

T66 with a 2.5 would still probably spool quite late, I think the Rigolis use them in their drag cars with nitrous to assist spool up.

Since the VF23 is OEM on your 22b if you're happy with the results there seems no strong reason to change them.

Andy's 20G making 420-440 BHP may depend on what fuel is run - Andy himself achieved 440 BHP at Star with methanol, Alan G's and sg72's cars are under 420 BHP but optimally setup for Optimax from the sounds of it.

treebeard

Two reasons why rolling roads print flywheel figures, 1 is for kiddies to boast about how much 'faster' their car is compared to a stock one, and 2, errr... because it's a bigger number then PAW, and as we all know bigger is always better Show me a rolling road that can record true drivetrain loss and I will give you my car.


T66 will be a decent match on 2,5l - 500atw @ circa 2bar with appropiate mods,should be good for 140+ terminals. Regarding injectors, you may find that power will increase with a larger cc injector at low duty cycles (<70%) as opposed to a smaller one at high duty cycles.

scooby-si

hopefully i want to run 2.5ltr t66 and nos 850cc/1000cc

drb5

iTrader: (4)

cheers peoples

lenny b

hey im always holding every one up.!!!!!! lennyb

SUBTYPER

Hey Treebeard.

In your post you imply that you have never had your car on a set of rollers. If you havent then why comment about peoples figures. And if you havent been on rollers how come you are so knowledgable about them. (No offence intended)