View Poll Results: Do you think that people should be licenced to become parents?
Yes
23
58.97%
No
15
38.46%
Not sure
1
2.56%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll
Should people be licenced to become parents?
12 February 2004, 01:07 PM
#31
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Some pretty controversial views already (some joking), but I do think something needs doing.
Parenting is (or should be) a huge commitment and responsibility and anyone can do it without prior knowledge or training.
Once heard a New York radio show host say "If you can't feed em - don't breed em !". Made me smile and summed it up nicely. That was one of his more polite and publishable quotes on a weekday afternoon show
Parenting is (or should be) a huge commitment and responsibility and anyone can do it without prior knowledge or training.
Once heard a New York radio show host say "If you can't feed em - don't breed em !". Made me smile and summed it up nicely. That was one of his more polite and publishable quotes on a weekday afternoon show
12 February 2004, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by scoobypreza
I’ve been looking into the work of Webster-Stratton. She has developed parent craft schemes that have been really successful. The classes re-educate the parents of the children that are going off the rails. Once you can get the parents on board the battle is half won.
If the parents of the disruptive children worked together with their school rather than against it discipline would be far more effective.
If the parents of the disruptive children worked together with their school rather than against it discipline would be far more effective.
I think getting the parents on board is the crux of the problem. Most kids go off the rails as they've lacked attention/encouragement/support from parents in the first place.
I've found the child-of-our-time progs on the BBC really interesting as they've been about doing the right things from day 1 so that your children develop decent attitudes from a younger age. Surprisingly I still don't think some people appreciate just how critical the first 3+ years are and how much of our adult lives are based on them.
12 February 2004, 01:18 PM
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it goes agaisnt EVERY Oriental beliefs
Most races / culture / religions in essence have common values, you don't murder, you don't steal and so on. And yet there are extremists from all religions who do kill.
There are also plenty of others who are power motivated and brush the norms aside to achive their goals, Hitler, Stalin, Sadam etc etc, it is nothing new. Atrocities have been going on in one form or other since the dawn of man.
I see no reason to belive that just because it doesn't "fit" with the Oriental ethos that it is not happening, there are plenty of other reasons not to belive, pro-life propaganda for one, but equally it could well be true and it would not be the first time that there has been large scale infantcide or genocide.
12 February 2004, 01:22 PM
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Nah I'm talking about the extended family thing. The orients believe that the children will take care of them when they're old and its a practice thats still done today. Killing children is also not a good way of replacing and maintaining an army thats needed by NK. Basically, the logic was lost and must've just been propaganda. Just like how we were taught that the Russians were evil. Come to think of it, after last nights meal, I think Russians might be evil after all. 
12 February 2004, 01:25 PM
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How about the well documented killing of unwanted female babies in China? Does that not go against this oriental mindset?
12 February 2004, 01:27 PM
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Well if it were in China then I'd believe it as them Chinese ****'s get everywhere these days 
With such a high population though haven't the Chinese got laws about family size or is that just an urban myth ??
With such a high population though haven't the Chinese got laws about family size or is that just an urban myth ??
12 February 2004, 01:36 PM
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FWIW
However, China's birth planning, or "single child" policy, is a notorious exception to this generalization. The birth planning law requires citizens to sacrifice their individual desires (to marry when they want, to have as many children as they want) for the general good. The reality is that even though China has adopted free market capitalism for the most part, China still retains some socialist, redistributionist economic services, such has public healthcare, some housing, and medical care for the old and poor.
12 February 2004, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by civictyper
Never heard of her before but will investigate as you never know !!
I think getting the parents on board is the crux of the problem. Most kids go off the rails as they've lacked attention/encouragement/support from parents in the first place.
I've found the child-of-our-time progs on the BBC really interesting as they've been about doing the right things from day 1 so that your children develop decent attitudes from a younger age. Surprisingly I still don't think some people appreciate just how critical the first 3+ years are and how much of our adult lives are based on them.
I think getting the parents on board is the crux of the problem. Most kids go off the rails as they've lacked attention/encouragement/support from parents in the first place.
I've found the child-of-our-time progs on the BBC really interesting as they've been about doing the right things from day 1 so that your children develop decent attitudes from a younger age. Surprisingly I still don't think some people appreciate just how critical the first 3+ years are and how much of our adult lives are based on them.
they're so interesting. Its true how behaviour patterns can be formed at an early age. It is so important to begin positive parenting from day one.Have a look at this web site for some of the outline of the Webster-Stratton work.
Incredible Years
Its an American website but her methods are being used over here now.
I followed this method amongst others last year while I was doing my MA.
Some of it is a bit far out but there are some aspects that I have found to be very successful at school. I have been trying to get some of the other teachers at my school to follow some of the techniques.
There is another book I've just ordered from Amazon which looks good.
Its called How to talk to your child so your child will listen and how to listen so your child will talk. I think that's what its called anyway!! It looks good anyway!
There was another BBC programme on the other night called Little Angles.
It showed the parents on the programme how their behaviour was influencing the behaviour of their child.
There are methods out there that work. unfortunately they are not being promoted enough. Again its all down to money.
I had to pay myself to follow the course. I've also paid to study more about learning difficulties, how am I supposed to help these children if my LEA wont pay to train me?
My teacher training didn't prepare me for life in a real class room. If I could have done the Webster-Stratton stuff at uni it would have helped me when I landed infront of my first class!
I love my job....but I must be mad!
I'd make far more money doing something else!
There's no wonder there is a shortage of teachers.
The whole system needs to be reformed.
cath
12 February 2004, 02:18 PM
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It showed the parents on the programme how their behaviour was influencing the behaviour of their child
12 February 2004, 02:20 PM
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Kat re the stories of N.Korea
What I read up on was that the killings are of babies born to illegal immigrants into China from N.Korea who have been returned back to N.Korea. The authorities accuse these women of having sex with Chinese men and that they will not have their mixed nationality babies dilute their population of pure Koreans.
This was the (very basic) jist of what I read from several sources.
Its very sickening to think this could be true, especially if I was to go into detail about how these babies are killed. It basically is the same as the genocide carried out by the *****.
The many reports have come from N.Koreans who have managed to successfully escape into S.Korea or into China. Yes it could be propoganda but at the same time the N.Korean authorities are extremists to the max and I would not put this sort of policy beyond them. There is satellite intelligence to backup the claims showing the buildings where such attrocities occur but again could be propoganda.
Like already said its difficult in todays climate to know what is propoganda and what is the truth
What I read up on was that the killings are of babies born to illegal immigrants into China from N.Korea who have been returned back to N.Korea. The authorities accuse these women of having sex with Chinese men and that they will not have their mixed nationality babies dilute their population of pure Koreans.
This was the (very basic) jist of what I read from several sources.
Its very sickening to think this could be true, especially if I was to go into detail about how these babies are killed. It basically is the same as the genocide carried out by the *****.
The many reports have come from N.Koreans who have managed to successfully escape into S.Korea or into China. Yes it could be propoganda but at the same time the N.Korean authorities are extremists to the max and I would not put this sort of policy beyond them. There is satellite intelligence to backup the claims showing the buildings where such attrocities occur but again could be propoganda.
Like already said its difficult in todays climate to know what is propoganda and what is the truth
12 February 2004, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by scoobypreza
I watch those progs they're so interesting. Its true how behaviour patterns can be formed at an early age. It is so important to begin positive parenting from day one.
Have a look at this web site for some of the outline of the Webster-Stratton work.
Incredible Years
Its an American website but her methods are being used over here now.
I followed this method amongst others last year while I was doing my MA.
Some of it is a bit far out but there are some aspects that I have found to be very successful at school. I have been trying to get some of the other teachers at my school to follow some of the techniques.
There is another book I've just ordered from Amazon which looks good.
Its called How to talk to your child so your child will listen and how to listen so your child will talk. I think that's what its called anyway!! It looks good anyway!
There was another BBC programme on the other night called Little Angles.
It showed the parents on the programme how their behaviour was influencing the behaviour of their child.
There are methods out there that work. unfortunately they are not being promoted enough. Again its all down to money.
I had to pay myself to follow the course. I've also paid to study more about learning difficulties, how am I supposed to help these children if my LEA wont pay to train me?
My teacher training didn't prepare me for life in a real class room. If I could have done the Webster-Stratton stuff at uni it would have helped me when I landed infront of my first class!
I love my job....but I must be mad!
I'd make far more money doing something else!
There's no wonder there is a shortage of teachers.
The whole system needs to be reformed.
cath
they're so interesting. Its true how behaviour patterns can be formed at an early age. It is so important to begin positive parenting from day one.Have a look at this web site for some of the outline of the Webster-Stratton work.
Incredible Years
Its an American website but her methods are being used over here now.
I followed this method amongst others last year while I was doing my MA.
Some of it is a bit far out but there are some aspects that I have found to be very successful at school. I have been trying to get some of the other teachers at my school to follow some of the techniques.
There is another book I've just ordered from Amazon which looks good.
Its called How to talk to your child so your child will listen and how to listen so your child will talk. I think that's what its called anyway!! It looks good anyway!
There was another BBC programme on the other night called Little Angles.
It showed the parents on the programme how their behaviour was influencing the behaviour of their child.
There are methods out there that work. unfortunately they are not being promoted enough. Again its all down to money.
I had to pay myself to follow the course. I've also paid to study more about learning difficulties, how am I supposed to help these children if my LEA wont pay to train me?
My teacher training didn't prepare me for life in a real class room. If I could have done the Webster-Stratton stuff at uni it would have helped me when I landed infront of my first class!
I love my job....but I must be mad!
I'd make far more money doing something else!
There's no wonder there is a shortage of teachers.
The whole system needs to be reformed.
cath
If ever I needed a book entitled 'How to talk to your child so your child will listen...' My 3yr old daughter is currently finding her independence (to put it mildly) so it's becoming increasingly difficult to ask her to do the most basic of tasks (like getting dressed!!) and succeeding without either taking hours or getting completely frustrated. Definately don't have a problem with her talking though
Amazon have glowing reviews of the book too so I've just ordered a copy. Cheers
Thanks for the URL too. I'll have a good read when I get home providing I'm not wrestling my daughter up the stairs to put her to bed !!
It's a shame that cash is always the show stopper when it comes to the good of the children. A friend is a PE/health teacher and tries to educate on healthy eating but then struggles as the canteen only sells pizza and chips because it's cheaper than preparing real food
12 February 2004, 03:08 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by **************
Kat re the stories of N.Korea
What I read up on was that the killings are of babies born to illegal immigrants into China from N.Korea who have been returned back to N.Korea. The authorities accuse these women of having sex with Chinese men and that they will not have their mixed nationality babies dilute their population of pure Koreans.
This was the (very basic) jist of what I read from several sources.
Its very sickening to think this could be true, especially if I was to go into detail about how these babies are killed. It basically is the same as the genocide carried out by the *****.
The many reports have come from N.Koreans who have managed to successfully escape into S.Korea or into China. Yes it could be propoganda but at the same time the N.Korean authorities are extremists to the max and I would not put this sort of policy beyond them. There is satellite intelligence to backup the claims showing the buildings where such attrocities occur but again could be propoganda.
Like already said its difficult in todays climate to know what is propoganda and what is the truth
What I read up on was that the killings are of babies born to illegal immigrants into China from N.Korea who have been returned back to N.Korea. The authorities accuse these women of having sex with Chinese men and that they will not have their mixed nationality babies dilute their population of pure Koreans.
This was the (very basic) jist of what I read from several sources.
Its very sickening to think this could be true, especially if I was to go into detail about how these babies are killed. It basically is the same as the genocide carried out by the *****.
The many reports have come from N.Koreans who have managed to successfully escape into S.Korea or into China. Yes it could be propoganda but at the same time the N.Korean authorities are extremists to the max and I would not put this sort of policy beyond them. There is satellite intelligence to backup the claims showing the buildings where such attrocities occur but again could be propoganda.
Like already said its difficult in todays climate to know what is propoganda and what is the truth
Having said that though the traditional Chinese community would not approve of mixed marriages and I certainly would be frowned upon for having a Welsh partner (not just because she is Welsh although that is pretty bad
)Whether they (or other Orientals) would do such extreme things I don't know but there is some real hatred amongst races in the east (North and South Koreans as well as the Japanese)
12 February 2004, 03:11 PM
#45
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Your welcome Civictyper
I hope it works for you!
This is a bit off topic but I had this poem in an e-mail.
Made me think for a moment about the way we talk to those close to us sometimes......
I ran into a stranger as he passed by,
Oh excuse me please was my reply.
He said: Please excuse me too;
I wasn't watching for you.
We were very polite, this stranger and I.
We went on our way and we said good-bye.
But at home a different story is told,
How we treat our loved ones, young and old.
Later that day, cooking the evening meal,
My son stood beside me very still.
When I turned, I nearly knocked him down.
Move out of the way, I said with a frown.
He walked away, his little heart broken.
I didn't realize how harshly I'd spoken.
While I lay awake in bed,
God's still small voice came to me and said:
While dealing with a stranger, common courtesy you use,
but the children you love, you seem to abuse.
Go and look on the kitchen floor,
You'll find some flowers there by the door.
Those are the flowers he brought for you.
He picked them himself: pink, yellow and blue.
He stood very quietly not to spoil the surprise,
you never saw the tears that filled his little eyes.
bla bla bla it goes on a bit but you get the drift.
I hope it works for you!
This is a bit off topic but I had this poem in an e-mail.
Made me think for a moment about the way we talk to those close to us sometimes......
I ran into a stranger as he passed by,
Oh excuse me please was my reply.
He said: Please excuse me too;
I wasn't watching for you.
We were very polite, this stranger and I.
We went on our way and we said good-bye.
But at home a different story is told,
How we treat our loved ones, young and old.
Later that day, cooking the evening meal,
My son stood beside me very still.
When I turned, I nearly knocked him down.
Move out of the way, I said with a frown.
He walked away, his little heart broken.
I didn't realize how harshly I'd spoken.
While I lay awake in bed,
God's still small voice came to me and said:
While dealing with a stranger, common courtesy you use,
but the children you love, you seem to abuse.
Go and look on the kitchen floor,
You'll find some flowers there by the door.
Those are the flowers he brought for you.
He picked them himself: pink, yellow and blue.
He stood very quietly not to spoil the surprise,
you never saw the tears that filled his little eyes.
bla bla bla it goes on a bit but you get the drift.
12 February 2004, 03:18 PM
#46
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I read an article in a paper on the 2 kid rule (I think it was Korea or China) which showed a picture of a babys body lying in the "gutter" and people just walking back nonchalantly.
There were reports of the authorities "raiding" remote villages killing 3rd and 4th children in families. One report even said that the authorities had forced a father to kill his newly born son.
No way on earth would I support forcible abortion - its bad enough when it happens "naturally" or the parents choose this as an option due to their circumstances.
There are some very sick views on this thread, hopefully some of them arent a true reflection of how people feel - if they are then thank **** its only a minority.
Anyhow IMO it would never happen.
There were reports of the authorities "raiding" remote villages killing 3rd and 4th children in families. One report even said that the authorities had forced a father to kill his newly born son.
No way on earth would I support forcible abortion - its bad enough when it happens "naturally" or the parents choose this as an option due to their circumstances.
There are some very sick views on this thread, hopefully some of them arent a true reflection of how people feel - if they are then thank **** its only a minority.
Anyhow IMO it would never happen.
Last edited by Scooby96; 12 February 2004 at 03:19 PM.
12 February 2004, 03:45 PM
#48
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The Korean method was to leave the new born baby face down on its own until it died naturally. If it didnt die within 48 hours it would be smothered by a prison guard. 
No one was allowed to touch the baby apart from the prison guards. The mother is forced to watch the baby die and she is not allowed to cry or grieve for it.
Not much else more sick than that really
No one was allowed to touch the baby apart from the prison guards. The mother is forced to watch the baby die and she is not allowed to cry or grieve for it.Not much else more sick than that really
12 February 2004, 04:49 PM
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Depends if you see death (OK drawn out over 2 days) as worse than years of extended depravation and torture, ultimately leading to death.
OK this is not a pleasant way to take a discussion, but I find the situations where kids have been kept in darkened rooms with no interaction with life other than to be fed and not being cleaned a worse prospect than it all being over. Maybe I am just a coward and would prefer a quick (or comparitively) way out rather than years of hell.
OK this is not a pleasant way to take a discussion, but I find the situations where kids have been kept in darkened rooms with no interaction with life other than to be fed and not being cleaned a worse prospect than it all being over. Maybe I am just a coward and would prefer a quick (or comparitively) way out rather than years of hell.
12 February 2004, 04:57 PM
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Scoobypreza
Thanks for the poem. Kind of hits home just how crap you can be to your kids sometimes without being conscious about it.
Not that I'm rude to my daughter all the time but it's so difficult to be 100% tolerant at this age, and especially when they're purposely testing the boundaries of your relationship in an effort to gain their independence. It's during these moments where your abilities as a parent are put to the test and probably why it's difficult to ascertain who will be a good parent or not.
You definately need triggers like the poem (or books etc) to bring you back down to earth every now and then so thanks again. Going to go home for a big smooch with my girl now.
Cheers
Thanks for the poem. Kind of hits home just how crap you can be to your kids sometimes without being conscious about it.
Not that I'm rude to my daughter all the time but it's so difficult to be 100% tolerant at this age, and especially when they're purposely testing the boundaries of your relationship in an effort to gain their independence. It's during these moments where your abilities as a parent are put to the test and probably why it's difficult to ascertain who will be a good parent or not.
You definately need triggers like the poem (or books etc) to bring you back down to earth every now and then so thanks again. Going to go home for a big smooch with my girl now.
Cheers
12 February 2004, 05:32 PM
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Still I find it extremely difficult to believe. I dont care how hard they are, or how brutal they are, no one can actually live through this if they were a prison guard and still function "normally".
edit: The worse one I heard is the baby raping thing somewhere on the African continent to cure AIDS. Even then..
edit: The worse one I heard is the baby raping thing somewhere on the African continent to cure AIDS. Even then..
Last edited by Katana; 12 February 2004 at 05:34 PM.
12 February 2004, 05:39 PM
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Kat dont be fooled. You telling me the sick things in Africa didnt happen like in Rwanda with all the children having their limbs hacked off or worse because no one could live with themselves for doing such things? There are plenty of sick cultures out there that these sort of things dont affect like they do us. I can quite easily believe the N.Koreans are capable of such things as they are a harsh brutal dictatorship where the establishment do as they please with no retribution. They don't give a **** about peoples feelings/emotions/morals. Thats extreme communism for you.
12 February 2004, 08:21 PM
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Thats the thing. I grew up believing that the commies feed their children to dogs as sport when I was younger. But then I get to meet people from the Soviet block and they told me that everything that I was taught about them when I was in school was a lie by our government, and especially by the American government.
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