Getting sick of these untaxed, uninsured, unlicensed asylum seekers in town.
18 February 2004, 12:54 PM
#61
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just to further push this topic,,
i see certain pionts within this thread that are valid.
i agree that there are some questions to be asked about a certain types of persons driving rather worn and dubious vehicles around our town centres.
there driving skills leave much to be desired too!!!
hightens the case for an insurance disc to be displayed !!!!
the normal annual influx of migrant workers where i live used to be
s/ africans chinese and english .. now it seems to be a great majority from the eastern bloc.
Rarely do they go out in ones or twos but en masse. I have had groups of mates spit up for wandering around like that !! if you vist our local car boot sales on a sunday, they innundate stalls and there approach can be somwhat unnerving.
they offer a pittance form very reasonable priced goods. ie a cd player for sale for £5 (i just wanted shot of it and yes it worked) they offered £1 and got arsey when i refused.
i wouldnt have minded but when a guy wearing a full length leather coat, Nike trainers, and has a moblie phone glued to his ear makes an offer like that i have to laugh.
Granted there are some very genuine people out there, but when you enter the local car park on a sunday and count the amount of transit vans / people carriers (all new) they travel in it does make you wonder???
who provides these buses ?? who puts petrol in , road tax etc.
on the flip side
take the guy who killed the little boy for his crap driving no licence etc.
why imprison him..
the answer is obvious
Deport them.
to suggest we are Xenophobic is a bit odd.
fed up with this government
Yes definatly
Mart
i see certain pionts within this thread that are valid.
i agree that there are some questions to be asked about a certain types of persons driving rather worn and dubious vehicles around our town centres.
there driving skills leave much to be desired too!!!
hightens the case for an insurance disc to be displayed !!!!
the normal annual influx of migrant workers where i live used to be
s/ africans chinese and english .. now it seems to be a great majority from the eastern bloc.
Rarely do they go out in ones or twos but en masse. I have had groups of mates spit up for wandering around like that !! if you vist our local car boot sales on a sunday, they innundate stalls and there approach can be somwhat unnerving.
they offer a pittance form very reasonable priced goods. ie a cd player for sale for £5 (i just wanted shot of it and yes it worked) they offered £1 and got arsey when i refused.
i wouldnt have minded but when a guy wearing a full length leather coat, Nike trainers, and has a moblie phone glued to his ear makes an offer like that i have to laugh.
Granted there are some very genuine people out there, but when you enter the local car park on a sunday and count the amount of transit vans / people carriers (all new) they travel in it does make you wonder???
who provides these buses ?? who puts petrol in , road tax etc.
on the flip side
take the guy who killed the little boy for his crap driving no licence etc.
why imprison him..
the answer is obvious
Deport them.
to suggest we are Xenophobic is a bit odd.
fed up with this government
Yes definatly
Mart
18 February 2004, 12:59 PM
#62
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Brendan I totally agree with you, the fact is though that even illegals who work in my opinion shouldn't be here/working until they have got their application accepted. I am all for bringing greater skill into this country to areas where we need it, especially the health service but the people that come and do the jobs must be here legally.
I have as much dislike for the two slobs claiming the equivalent of £50k a year in benefits as I do illegal immigrants. For me it has nothing to do with their colour or ethnic background, its all to do with the fact they shouldn't well be here/claiming the benefit that they get. We have enough problems in this country with existing nationals that need sorting out first before we take on foreign nationals and try to help them.
The benefit system needs tightening its belt big time and thats putting it very mildly.
I have as much dislike for the two slobs claiming the equivalent of £50k a year in benefits as I do illegal immigrants. For me it has nothing to do with their colour or ethnic background, its all to do with the fact they shouldn't well be here/claiming the benefit that they get. We have enough problems in this country with existing nationals that need sorting out first before we take on foreign nationals and try to help them.
The benefit system needs tightening its belt big time and thats putting it very mildly.
18 February 2004, 01:05 PM
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Just a quick question here, not looking to stir things up overly.
We have all recently heard the Police and NHS have been branded as institutionally racist. We have head about Damiloa Taylor (sp) and various other attacks on blacks / asians being "stamped" as racial crime. Can anybody quote me a media article where a white person has been attacked by a non white and it has been branded a racial attack by the media? I am sure there must have been some, just can't think of any off hand.
We have all recently heard the Police and NHS have been branded as institutionally racist. We have head about Damiloa Taylor (sp) and various other attacks on blacks / asians being "stamped" as racial crime. Can anybody quote me a media article where a white person has been attacked by a non white and it has been branded a racial attack by the media? I am sure there must have been some, just can't think of any off hand.
18 February 2004, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by **************
We have enough problems in this country with existing nationals that need sorting out first before we take on foreign nationals and try to help them.
"Try to help them" - we have an OBLIGATION to help people fleeing from persecution. I agree we have absolutely no obligation to help those who just want to improve their life. (However - if they show the guts to get off their backsides out of their country, and are willing to do utterly crap jobs that joe public refuse as it's too low for them, why not let them stay? If all the crap jobs had to be charged at full minimum wage, plus tax etc, how much do you think the price of the end product would rise?)
But more importantly:
If we ever got the figures for the Brits cheating the system (cue anti-p!key thread
), and for the immigrants cheating the system, I think there would be way, way more Brits - five, ten, twenty times as many. But you don't hear the press uproar about the Brits, you hear it about the immigrants. They're an easy target, but IMHO, the wrong one. It's just playing to the uneducated masses. The tabloids would never run a campaign about Brits cheating, you know why? Because they'd be against a fair chunk of their readership.EDIT - so what I'm trying to say is, the concentration on the supposed problems of "asylum seekers" is perhaps distracting people from the one that really does need attention, and would make the biggest saving to the public purse.
Hey, I can't keep typing essays on this thread, my boss will accuse me of sponging off the system
Last edited by Brendan Hughes; 18 February 2004 at 01:24 PM.
18 February 2004, 01:25 PM
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What I am getting at Brendan is the fact the Government is spending all this money on helping immigrants etc but why arnt they then finding money to help the homeless of this country for example? Where are the hostels for the poor bu66ers in London begging at stations? Yes I know there will be some on the make but there are again plenty of genuine kids on the streets who have run away from abuse etc. Plusd their is the drug and alcohol abuse they have got into from being on the streets. Where is the Government funding to get them off the streets and rehabilitated?
The Government is spending vast sums of tax payers money on foreigners when it should be spending it on those who have always lived here and need help. Why are illegal immigrants more worthy of state help than the homeless here on our streets for example?
Its priorities are plainly wrong and like I have said before the other countries in Europe are laughing their heads off at us for being so soft on the illegal immigrants. Thats exactly why France and Germany put them all back on the planes, trains and boats and send them to good old soft target Britain who can fork out the taxpayers money to cover the cost of housing, feeding and processing claims!
The Government is spending vast sums of tax payers money on foreigners when it should be spending it on those who have always lived here and need help. Why are illegal immigrants more worthy of state help than the homeless here on our streets for example?
Its priorities are plainly wrong and like I have said before the other countries in Europe are laughing their heads off at us for being so soft on the illegal immigrants. Thats exactly why France and Germany put them all back on the planes, trains and boats and send them to good old soft target Britain who can fork out the taxpayers money to cover the cost of housing, feeding and processing claims!
18 February 2004, 01:39 PM
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I have agree with Brendan. I am not fond of these freeloaders getting away with this when honest citzens have to pay, however, you have to prove the person is an asylum seeker. Trust me, I've looked plenty rough and been driving, badly, a banged up old car, so you would no doubt have considered me an aslyum seeker, oh, maybe not, because I'm not the right ethnic grouping. Hell, I'll vent chapter and verse about not liking freeloaders and religious fantactics, but you can't just judge someone by how they look.
18 February 2004, 02:06 PM
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Here's another perspective... Considering SN to be a cross section of the British public, the majority seem to think that Britain lets in far too many immigrants. Whether or not this is morally correct is immaterial, we are a democracy and if the majority want them out, then out they should go!
18 February 2004, 02:09 PM
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Rather than spend millions putting speed cameras around to catch old ladies doing 32 in a 30 why don't they spend the money on cameras to catch untaxed / stolen cars ....the tecnology exists ( congestion charge |)then shoot the ******ers after !!!
Dave
Dave
18 February 2004, 02:23 PM
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ajm - I'll agree with your democracy argument, morals / PC don't matter. Wouldn't agree with your suggestion that scoobynet is a REPRESENTATIVE cross-section of the British public though. Scoobynet seems to be 95% of young males aged 17-40 who spend a lot of time on the internet and are rich enough to afford a macho car costing 6-30k. You've automatically discounted the votes of about 99% of the female population - wouldn't you say that was a bit Muslim fundamentalist?
18 February 2004, 02:33 PM
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LOL!
Yes, re-reading my post it did sort of erroneously infer a representative sample. I did actually mean consider SN a cross section for the purposes of our intellectual discussion
Yes, re-reading my post it did sort of erroneously infer a representative sample. I did actually mean consider SN a cross section for the purposes of our intellectual discussion
18 February 2004, 02:53 PM
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The joy of pigeon holing people, that's what so much of this comes down to:
I don't like X because:
He supports a different football team
He drives a different car
Wears scruffy clothes
Has a beard
Has a different skin colour
Speak a different language
Has a disability
And so, people who don't fit in to the same little groups as us are generalised and considered "bad". OK I am generalising again, but you see it time and time again.
There is an asylum / immigration issue in this country and the EU as a whole. Yes there are people can bring something positive to this country, there are others who would be persecuted if they were to stay where they are, but there are also a lot who "hear on the grapevine" that there is good money to be had in the UK, handouts of food, money and housing and people think the grass is greener and come to investigate.
We have in part made the problem ourselves (read Government) and the issues go way back because we wanted to have our own little empire and had to take over half the world. Then as we gave them their independance, many of them wanted to be able to come back to "blighty" as they were British citizens now. Remember all the chaos just before the hand back of Hong Kong? If the media was to belived there wasn't going to be anybody left in Hong Kong on the day of hand over as they would in the UK.
The government needs to listen to the people who put them where they are, and rightly or wrongly (and pushed by the media no doubt) many people in theis country feel resentlment about the number of immegrants legal or otherwise coming in to this country when we are already in a poor state.
I personally feel we need to shut the gates for a while, get our own house sorted out and deal with those that are here and either give them residence or send them back depending on the circumstances. We then need to sort out how benefits work in the country and then we can start thinking about opening the gates again, but this time in a controlled manner rather than throwing them wide open
I don't like X because:
He supports a different football team
He drives a different car
Wears scruffy clothes
Has a beard
Has a different skin colour
Speak a different language
Has a disability
And so, people who don't fit in to the same little groups as us are generalised and considered "bad". OK I am generalising again, but you see it time and time again.
There is an asylum / immigration issue in this country and the EU as a whole. Yes there are people can bring something positive to this country, there are others who would be persecuted if they were to stay where they are, but there are also a lot who "hear on the grapevine" that there is good money to be had in the UK, handouts of food, money and housing and people think the grass is greener and come to investigate.
We have in part made the problem ourselves (read Government) and the issues go way back because we wanted to have our own little empire and had to take over half the world. Then as we gave them their independance, many of them wanted to be able to come back to "blighty" as they were British citizens now. Remember all the chaos just before the hand back of Hong Kong? If the media was to belived there wasn't going to be anybody left in Hong Kong on the day of hand over as they would in the UK.
The government needs to listen to the people who put them where they are, and rightly or wrongly (and pushed by the media no doubt) many people in theis country feel resentlment about the number of immegrants legal or otherwise coming in to this country when we are already in a poor state.
I personally feel we need to shut the gates for a while, get our own house sorted out and deal with those that are here and either give them residence or send them back depending on the circumstances. We then need to sort out how benefits work in the country and then we can start thinking about opening the gates again, but this time in a controlled manner rather than throwing them wide open
18 February 2004, 02:54 PM
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Hey, I can't keep typing essays on this thread, my boss will accuse me of sponging off the system
It's funny how some go on about hating/disliking spongers but spend a significant part of the day surfing on SN and other forums (forae ?) during work time. If it were just an hour a day then we're talking £2.6k a year based on a £10 per hour salary (miminum figures as some surf longer than just an hour a day).
£50 a week is more than a sponging illegal immigrant would con from the system (excluding accomodation) so what's the deal with the high-ground stuff ?? They're costing the country a small fortune and we're costing our employers a small fortune.
Maybe we should all make a note of our time spent surfing and work out how much we're all sponging before we cast our displeasure at illegal immigrants. God forbid that they probably just want to escape a really crap country and earn some money in the process.
18 February 2004, 03:07 PM
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What an unhealthy argument. Wonderful
Anyway, I can't understand why poorguy thinks that the assylum boys have an easy ride. Have you forgot the pockle cickers already?? They payed 10000's to a big fat cheese head gang leader, for the privilage to stay in a crammed, 40 at a time, two up two down terrace, somewhere in chavesville. You even get a job for life! Literally!!
Its not the assylum seekers that you should hack you off, its the b@stards that occupy every street corner, prey 5 times a day and drive expensive cars.
Anyway, I can't understand why poorguy thinks that the assylum boys have an easy ride. Have you forgot the pockle cickers already??
They payed 10000's to a big fat cheese head gang leader, for the privilage to stay in a crammed, 40 at a time, two up two down terrace, somewhere in chavesville. You even get a job for life! Literally!! Its not the assylum seekers that you should hack you off, its the b@stards that occupy every street corner, prey 5 times a day and drive expensive cars.
18 February 2004, 04:06 PM
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i think chaos accidentally ate a smart pill a few days ago. either that or maybe his dad finally managed to knock some sense into him, with a good length of 2"x4".
18 February 2004, 04:27 PM
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Did anyone catch the news last night where the Dutch are planning to tighten up on immigrants and are planning to deport 26,000 illegal immigrants - and this is from the most liberated country in europe. There does come a point where enough is enough but when will the penny drop with the UK government.
18 February 2004, 04:30 PM
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but when will the penny drop with the UK government.
18 February 2004, 04:39 PM
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If being proud of my country & wanting within fair limits to strive to maintain/ improve its society/ its morals/ its endemic (legal )populus makes me a racist then bring it on'
to want these aspects to be protected for mine/future generations to enjoy, is I believe the cornerstone of any countries strength and the policies of any supposed democracy should reflect this aim..... the fact that successive Gvnmts are increasingly hell bent on ignoring any issues other than short term weath creation, does not mean that its citizens are either content with their lot or effectively represented.
There is a huge section of all levels of our socierty who do not feel themselves to be racist, but simply let down by this errrosion of values- these are the weath creators in this land and they are sickened by whats happening around them.
If however unskilled at voicing an opinion these people are, they have the temerity to start tackling the PC morons who instinctively brand them 'this or that' then we may have a chance- until then keep shouting them down until they leave/ hide or die- maybe then said 'ones' who are left can reap the rewards of their banal/ idealistic diatribe.
to want these aspects to be protected for mine/future generations to enjoy, is I believe the cornerstone of any countries strength and the policies of any supposed democracy should reflect this aim..... the fact that successive Gvnmts are increasingly hell bent on ignoring any issues other than short term weath creation, does not mean that its citizens are either content with their lot or effectively represented.
There is a huge section of all levels of our socierty who do not feel themselves to be racist, but simply let down by this errrosion of values- these are the weath creators in this land and they are sickened by whats happening around them.
If however unskilled at voicing an opinion these people are, they have the temerity to start tackling the PC morons who instinctively brand them 'this or that' then we may have a chance- until then keep shouting them down until they leave/ hide or die- maybe then said 'ones' who are left can reap the rewards of their banal/ idealistic diatribe.
18 February 2004, 04:54 PM
#83
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Have any of you read "The English", by Jeremy Paxman?
Nice study of the national character - not brilliant, not faultless, but a good place to start. (The final chapter was a bit of a rushed rant though.)
Those of you whining about the latest problems about how the country is going to the dogs due to the foreigners, you might be interested to know it's been an English national characteristic for at least a hundred years.
Do you think the country's gone to the dogs in the last hundred years?
All the money spent on asylum seekers (sic) in the last ten years must have been PEANUTS compared to that spent on the weapons used to bomb Iraq, to get rid of a dictator who was frankly no threat to the UK whatsoever except to be a PITA. What's the price of the missiles fired, the bombs dropped, the tanks that were lost? Who stood up then and said this is a waste of taxpayers' money which could better be spent on feeding our homeless or building our schools? No-one, they'd have been called looney left. But in that case the looney left would want to save taxpayers' money and look after ourselves, rather than waste it on a bunch of foreigners, which is what the raving right opted for.
See how arguments are inconsistent?
Nice study of the national character - not brilliant, not faultless, but a good place to start. (The final chapter was a bit of a rushed rant though.)
Those of you whining about the latest problems about how the country is going to the dogs due to the foreigners, you might be interested to know it's been an English national characteristic for at least a hundred years.
Do you think the country's gone to the dogs in the last hundred years?
All the money spent on asylum seekers (sic) in the last ten years must have been PEANUTS compared to that spent on the weapons used to bomb Iraq, to get rid of a dictator who was frankly no threat to the UK whatsoever except to be a PITA. What's the price of the missiles fired, the bombs dropped, the tanks that were lost? Who stood up then and said this is a waste of taxpayers' money which could better be spent on feeding our homeless or building our schools? No-one, they'd have been called looney left. But in that case the looney left would want to save taxpayers' money and look after ourselves, rather than waste it on a bunch of foreigners, which is what the raving right opted for.
See how arguments are inconsistent?
18 February 2004, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RichWalk
to want these aspects to be protected for mine/future generations to enjoy, is I believe the cornerstone of any countries strength and the policies of any supposed democracy should reflect this aim
Erm, people migrate, world economy, sorry. Has to be managed, and it's not managed very well at the moment, to that I'll agree. Still, your POV is almost ancient. Ask your neighbour who perhaps rents houses for big money to Polish workers.
Something else: democracy is not just about "the majority". Real democracy means protection of minority viewpoints. Read up on it
Get educated.Also: "Europe laughs with our easy immigration politics"... erm, you must read other international sources than I do
Just not true and another UK myth. You don't even seem to know *why* immigrants (illegal or not) want to go to the UK. Hint: not for the benefits, as they must be about the worst in the whole of Europe. Sorry to burst your bubble Challenge: who can tell me why immigrants want to get to the UK ? Benefits is not the answer, nor is the "welcoming government". So ?
PCDude.
18 February 2004, 05:02 PM
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Brendan, if you read the section on Governments I think you will find I am being consistent, I think you will also find the sectors of socierty I refer to were equally dissaproving of the Iraq war- and yet again misrepresented.
18 February 2004, 05:06 PM
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Because they arnt thrown out/sent back to their country of origin immediately on arrival like in other countries and can then stay put for months and months claiming benefits thats why. Its nothing to do with then benefits being the best you fool, its the fact they are easily obtainable where as they arnt in other countries.
Oh and somedude if your so overly educated and think we are all so uneducated why dont you grace us with your infinite knowledge and answer your own questions
Oh and somedude if your so overly educated and think we are all so uneducated why dont you grace us with your infinite knowledge and answer your own questions
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 18 February 2004 at 05:07 PM.
18 February 2004, 05:09 PM
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SomeDude;
No the legitimate population of this country.
POV ancient no actually it represents many and incompasses a multicultural viewpoint & no my neighbour does not rent houses to the Polish.
Democracy- totally agree, not much of one if the majority are silent though is it!
Europe- never even mentioned it, learn to read.
No the legitimate population of this country.
POV ancient no actually it represents many and incompasses a multicultural viewpoint & no my neighbour does not rent houses to the Polish.
Democracy- totally agree, not much of one if the majority are silent though is it!
Europe- never even mentioned it, learn to read.
Last edited by RichWalk; 18 February 2004 at 05:10 PM.
18 February 2004, 05:19 PM
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"Learn to read"
"You fool"
Nice
Still no answers to questions that are more important to you than to me
B2Z: how do you know they are more easily obtainable ? Can you be an illegal immigrant in the UK and still get benefits (serious question) ?
"You fool"
Nice
Still no answers to questions that are more important to you than to me
B2Z: how do you know they are more easily obtainable ? Can you be an illegal immigrant in the UK and still get benefits (serious question) ?
18 February 2004, 05:33 PM
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They are more easily obtainable because they are allowed to reside in this country while their application for entry as a permanent resident is put through the system which takes months and months. All the time they are waiting for the decision they are entitled to claim benefit/be catered for at a camp which is paid for by the tax payer. This is a better option than turning up to say France and being told get lost you arnt coming in. However you can take the first tunnel on the left at san gatte (what ever its called) and it will take you to Dover!
Well i'm not sure the Govenrment classes them illegal immigrants while their applications are being processed and they are being given benefit but they are by public opinion due to them not being legal citizens of Britain.
"you fool" - well I had to keep it polite didnt I
Well i'm not sure the Govenrment classes them illegal immigrants while their applications are being processed and they are being given benefit but they are by public opinion due to them not being legal citizens of Britain.
"you fool" - well I had to keep it polite didnt I
18 February 2004, 05:47 PM
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I could be a real troll and explain it's called Sangatte.
But...
First of all, the fact that you can get help whilst your application is being processed is not unique to the UK, it's about the same in most of the civilized world.
Second: the benefits in some countries are at least double or triple of what one would get in the UK, even whilst "waiting to be processed".
Third: you may be amazed that the perceived (or real) problems in the UK are about 3 years behind the perceived (or real) problems in the rest of Europe. You are an island, so much easier to protect. Germany, The Netherlands, France, Belgium, they don't have that benefit.
You see it as "they just let them go to the UK". My point is that that's a simplistic way to view things. Most European countries (yes I know Rich, I should learn to read, no one mentioned Europe) are inundated at the moment, don't even have enough police or cells to "handle things", and even the very harsh fines that every trucker gets when an "illegal" enters the UK in his truck don't seem to help. (you did know about this fine did you ? It's about 2K UKP per head. Has been so since 1997...)
Ironically, the immigration "problem" can only be dealt with on a European scale (yes, I should learn to read).
At the same time, Europe (and I'll include the UK for once) are struggling with aging populations. It's a real problem, much more real than immigration.
And yes, I know the majority in the UK is against immigration. At least one thing they have in common with the rest of Europe (I'll learn to read) Problem is, the "cure" that seems to be invented feels a bit worse than the "disease". The rest of Europe (I'll learn etc...) has seen this first hand, I guess you guys need your first BNP landslide victory to realize this.
But...
First of all, the fact that you can get help whilst your application is being processed is not unique to the UK, it's about the same in most of the civilized world.
Second: the benefits in some countries are at least double or triple of what one would get in the UK, even whilst "waiting to be processed".
Third: you may be amazed that the perceived (or real) problems in the UK are about 3 years behind the perceived (or real) problems in the rest of Europe. You are an island, so much easier to protect. Germany, The Netherlands, France, Belgium, they don't have that benefit.
You see it as "they just let them go to the UK". My point is that that's a simplistic way to view things. Most European countries (yes I know Rich, I should learn to read, no one mentioned Europe) are inundated at the moment, don't even have enough police or cells to "handle things", and even the very harsh fines that every trucker gets when an "illegal" enters the UK in his truck don't seem to help. (you did know about this fine did you ? It's about 2K UKP per head. Has been so since 1997...)
Ironically, the immigration "problem" can only be dealt with on a European scale (yes, I should learn to read).
At the same time, Europe (and I'll include the UK for once) are struggling with aging populations. It's a real problem, much more real than immigration.
And yes, I know the majority in the UK is against immigration. At least one thing they have in common with the rest of Europe (I'll learn to read)
Problem is, the "cure" that seems to be invented feels a bit worse than the "disease". The rest of Europe (I'll learn etc...) has seen this first hand, I guess you guys need your first BNP landslide victory to realize this.