WRX 03 PPP Problem!
07 March 2004, 02:30 PM
#61
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I've got an 02 WRX with a PPP, had it fitted straight after delivery. Not being funny but I drove my car like a baby for the first 12months, oil changing every 3K miles roughly. Only after 12months did I really start to open her up on a regular basis.
Not sure I like the sound of people flooring their new cars in 5th after only a couple of months from new! The waves of power could simply mean the car isn't 'run in' properly.
I've never encountered a waves issue per se but I'll be sure to pay close attention to the power delivery from now on. My advice would be to take it easy for the first couple of months then once everything is nicely seated see whether there are any problems.
245Bhp in my machine is still enough to leave most cars lingering behind you on the motorway - especially the acceleration between 80-100. The real beauty is cornering and knowing that almost no matter what the scooby sticks to the black stuff when other rear-wheelers are in danger of swapping ends. Even with all the new kids on the block like the 350Z I wouldn't have anything else than my f'ugly
Not sure I like the sound of people flooring their new cars in 5th after only a couple of months from new! The waves of power could simply mean the car isn't 'run in' properly.
I've never encountered a waves issue per se but I'll be sure to pay close attention to the power delivery from now on. My advice would be to take it easy for the first couple of months then once everything is nicely seated see whether there are any problems.
245Bhp in my machine is still enough to leave most cars lingering behind you on the motorway - especially the acceleration between 80-100. The real beauty is cornering and knowing that almost no matter what the scooby sticks to the black stuff when other rear-wheelers are in danger of swapping ends. Even with all the new kids on the block like the 350Z I wouldn't have anything else than my f'ugly
07 March 2004, 03:12 PM
#63
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I'd like to check mine out
Supercue
I've also got an 03 WRX PPP, but as it's given crap MPG and seems to run out of puff after 5000rpm, I'd like to get it checked out. Where did you get yours dyno'd?
Has anybody out there got any advice on what the PPP should do to economy BTW? (my old MY02 no PPP 26mpg, new 03+PPP 21mpg ???
)
Nige
I've also got an 03 WRX PPP, but as it's given crap MPG and seems to run out of puff after 5000rpm, I'd like to get it checked out. Where did you get yours dyno'd?
Has anybody out there got any advice on what the PPP should do to economy BTW? (my old MY02 no PPP 26mpg, new 03+PPP 21mpg ???
)Nige
07 March 2004, 06:13 PM
#64
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Nigeyboy
My MY03 WRX PPP, 30 mpg if I take it easy - 20-22mpg if I drive it fast on twisty roads, I dare say it would do alot less if I really hammered it. Mine pulls well to 6k, STi PPP pulls for longer but to me the WRX PPP Vs STi PPP reminds me of the difference between the old 8 valve Golf GTI compared to the 16 valve GTI.
Are you comparing it to an STi? You need to compare it with another WRX PPP, if you're in or near North Yorks let me know.
Barney
My MY03 WRX PPP, 30 mpg if I take it easy - 20-22mpg if I drive it fast on twisty roads, I dare say it would do alot less if I really hammered it. Mine pulls well to 6k, STi PPP pulls for longer but to me the WRX PPP Vs STi PPP reminds me of the difference between the old 8 valve Golf GTI compared to the 16 valve GTI.
Are you comparing it to an STi? You need to compare it with another WRX PPP, if you're in or near North Yorks let me know.
Barney
Last edited by barneyrubble; 07 March 2004 at 06:14 PM. Reason: incorrect wording
07 March 2004, 06:26 PM
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Supercue,
To be fair to Prodrive/Subaru it might be the H-S downpipe which is messing things up. After all the figures they claim are not with an H-S downpipe fitted...
Might be worth putting the car back to standard WRX PPP and re-checking the figures on a RR before complaining? I doubt if they'll warranty the performance of something if you've then gone and modded the car.
Chris.
To be fair to Prodrive/Subaru it might be the H-S downpipe which is messing things up. After all the figures they claim are not with an H-S downpipe fitted...
Might be worth putting the car back to standard WRX PPP and re-checking the figures on a RR before complaining? I doubt if they'll warranty the performance of something if you've then gone and modded the car.
Chris.
08 March 2004, 09:16 AM
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FYI guys!
- I went out with FrenchBoy on Saturday am.
His car = 03 WRX PPP, mine standard 03 WRX with Prodrive backbox, but delivering 260bhp according to G-Forces rolling road.
- Not much of a difference at the top end (although his revved better once up to 6,000 rpm), but he had more torque everywhere and the kick every time he hit full throttle was way stronger ....... from 2,500rpm upwards! Nice but has left me with a dilema!!!!
- I went out with FrenchBoy on Saturday am.
His car = 03 WRX PPP, mine standard 03 WRX with Prodrive backbox, but delivering 260bhp according to G-Forces rolling road.
- Not much of a difference at the top end (although his revved better once up to 6,000 rpm), but he had more torque everywhere and the kick every time he hit full throttle was way stronger ....... from 2,500rpm upwards! Nice but has left me with a dilema!!!!
08 March 2004, 10:29 AM
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Cheers for that Mark.
To be honest since the ECU was reset the other week it has been driving like a champion. Bags of torque! Completely different to how it was struggling before.
Its still doing its 'uneven boost' thing between 80-100, (Even Mark could feel this and he was just in the passenger seat.) But SGT are going to have a look at this for me. But the car is performing so well now i'm not as worried as i was before.
Many thanks to Mark for taking me out in his car and showing me what a Scooby can really do (and ruining a perfectly good pair of trousers in the process).
I think i still managed to maintain my cool while begging like a little girl for him to slow down!
To be honest since the ECU was reset the other week it has been driving like a champion. Bags of torque! Completely different to how it was struggling before.
Its still doing its 'uneven boost' thing between 80-100, (Even Mark could feel this and he was just in the passenger seat.) But SGT are going to have a look at this for me. But the car is performing so well now i'm not as worried as i was before.
Many thanks to Mark for taking me out in his car and showing me what a Scooby can really do (and ruining a perfectly good pair of trousers in the process).
I think i still managed to maintain my cool while begging like a little girl for him to slow down!
08 March 2004, 10:57 AM
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Morning FrenchBoy - It was good to meet you and sorry if I went a bit fast!
I promise that wasn't maximum attack ........
The uneven boost problem is weird as it doesn't do it all the time - and when it does do it - it's only under full load in 5th between 3 and 4,000 rpm!
Oh and please go and get a new wheel sorted - I would hate that to let go on you!!
I promise that wasn't maximum attack ........
The uneven boost problem is weird as it doesn't do it all the time - and when it does do it - it's only under full load in 5th between 3 and 4,000 rpm!
Oh and please go and get a new wheel sorted - I would hate that to let go on you!!
12 March 2004, 02:29 PM
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Update on the Dealership
As I said earlier I would wait and see what my dealer would do before posting. I'm pleased to say that as before they have bent over to help me out, even though they were initially questioning the validity of the figures from the rolling road.
After re-assuring them that the figures were accurate but my car was nowhere near what it should be my car was checked over this morning for any obvious reasons as to why it isn't performing quite how it should, like accelerater not opening properly or slack cables, dodgy ECU etc.
My Dealer could not find any problems at all and was quite dumb-founded as to why it's not putting out the power Prodrive claim it should. After a little discussion they have agreed to replace the ECU to see if this resolves the issue. I really hope this works.
I'll post up again after the ECU is replaced to let everyone know if it works out.
Regards
Supercue
After re-assuring them that the figures were accurate but my car was nowhere near what it should be my car was checked over this morning for any obvious reasons as to why it isn't performing quite how it should, like accelerater not opening properly or slack cables, dodgy ECU etc.
My Dealer could not find any problems at all and was quite dumb-founded as to why it's not putting out the power Prodrive claim it should. After a little discussion they have agreed to replace the ECU to see if this resolves the issue. I really hope this works.
I'll post up again after the ECU is replaced to let everyone know if it works out.
Regards
Supercue
12 March 2004, 02:41 PM
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Supercue,
Did you take it to Maidenhead ?
Mine is booked in next w/e with them.
Doh! wrong person sorry!!!
Did you take it to Maidenhead ?
Mine is booked in next w/e with them.
Doh! wrong person sorry!!!
Last edited by gutter-rat; 12 March 2004 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Can't read !!!!
12 March 2004, 05:01 PM
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Mark,
had it checked out and its not cracked, just a little dented. Despite a guaranteed sale everyone seems to want to declare it fit for use!
Did find that both sets of fronts were completely worn on the inside though!!
so have just had 2 new tyres put on today.
Will let you know how i get on tomorrow.
had it checked out and its not cracked, just a little dented. Despite a guaranteed sale everyone seems to want to declare it fit for use!
Did find that both sets of fronts were completely worn on the inside though!!
so have just had 2 new tyres put on today.
Will let you know how i get on tomorrow.
13 March 2004, 12:23 PM
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Update
As promised heres the update....
took the car into SGT this morning and thes guys couldn't have been more helpfull. they were very patient and understanding and at no point throughout this entire process have they ever made me feel like i'm wasting their time/being paranoid, which i find really refreshing.
So to cut a long story short, after 3 attempts and 3 blasts up and down the M4,the problem appears to have been cured!!!
There is a little pipe that feeds into the wastegate (amusingingly reffered to as an 'orifice'). the standard pipe was 0.9 (mms, inches, cms - not too sure). this was initially changed to a 0.8. went out on the first test drive and the problem was actually worse - it was now happening in 3rd and 4th gear. so back we went and a 1.0 was fitted. Another test drive and the problem definitely seemed less pronounced.
back in again and this time tried a 1.2. out on the m4 again and ....success!! no intermittant boost at all. pulling nice and cleanly.
as you can prob tell i am useless with this technical stuff, but whatever they did worked!!
I cant emphasise enough how impressed i am with SGT. They've been absolutely spot on. I'm just gutted we didn't get the car from them in the first place!!
As an interesting side note we checked the oil before i left and found that i was down to my last litre!! this is 4500 miles since the 1k service!!
i wanted to check it as i'd heard that the new cars were heavy on oil in the first 10k. this, and the fact that the mechanic told me that SGT had seen some engine 'incidents' recently due to this very problem (ie people like me not checking their oil very regularly in the first 10k and then it goes bang!)
Anyway, cheers again to SGT and thanks to everyone who has offered advice and suggestions as to the cause of this problem. just goes to show what a knowlegeable lot you are on here as a quite a few people thought it might be wastegate related and it was.
Thanks!
Frenchie.
took the car into SGT this morning and thes guys couldn't have been more helpfull. they were very patient and understanding and at no point throughout this entire process have they ever made me feel like i'm wasting their time/being paranoid, which i find really refreshing.
So to cut a long story short, after 3 attempts and 3 blasts up and down the M4,the problem appears to have been cured!!!
There is a little pipe that feeds into the wastegate (amusingingly reffered to as an 'orifice'). the standard pipe was 0.9 (mms, inches, cms - not too sure). this was initially changed to a 0.8. went out on the first test drive and the problem was actually worse - it was now happening in 3rd and 4th gear. so back we went and a 1.0 was fitted. Another test drive and the problem definitely seemed less pronounced.
back in again and this time tried a 1.2. out on the m4 again and ....success!! no intermittant boost at all. pulling nice and cleanly.
as you can prob tell i am useless with this technical stuff, but whatever they did worked!!
I cant emphasise enough how impressed i am with SGT. They've been absolutely spot on. I'm just gutted we didn't get the car from them in the first place!!
As an interesting side note we checked the oil before i left and found that i was down to my last litre!! this is 4500 miles since the 1k service!!
i wanted to check it as i'd heard that the new cars were heavy on oil in the first 10k. this, and the fact that the mechanic told me that SGT had seen some engine 'incidents' recently due to this very problem (ie people like me not checking their oil very regularly in the first 10k and then it goes bang!)
Anyway, cheers again to SGT and thanks to everyone who has offered advice and suggestions as to the cause of this problem. just goes to show what a knowlegeable lot you are on here as a quite a few people thought it might be wastegate related and it was.
Thanks!
Frenchie.
15 March 2004, 01:38 PM
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Sounds like they have changed the restrictor that feeds the waste gate solenoid... different sizes of restrictor change the way the waste gate solenoid can control the boost.. too big will give too much control and too small will give too little resulting in higher boost pressures.. which isnt good!
I may have round the wrong way but im certain its somethign like that.
Also the little .8 mm hole inside gets cloged sometimes so it can cause weird results.. as well as the waste gate solenoid also getting dirty...
Just my thoughts anyways
oh yeah ...
SUpercue, I had my car (MY03sTI) on the rollers at G Force last month and was v happy with results... 317.6 BHP and 307 ft lb of torque, I have decat and rear resonator removed... allthough I was suffering front high temperature which took a while to calm down... when I was at Engine advantages Rollers I only got 268 bhp! and was suffering heavily from high inlet temperate... the PPP map has a lot of saftey margins in it for higher temps... Could have been somethign like that.
I may have round the wrong way but im certain its somethign like that.
Also the little .8 mm hole inside gets cloged sometimes so it can cause weird results.. as well as the waste gate solenoid also getting dirty...
Just my thoughts anyways
oh yeah ...
SUpercue, I had my car (MY03sTI) on the rollers at G Force last month and was v happy with results... 317.6 BHP and 307 ft lb of torque, I have decat and rear resonator removed... allthough I was suffering front high temperature which took a while to calm down... when I was at Engine advantages Rollers I only got 268 bhp! and was suffering heavily from high inlet temperate... the PPP map has a lot of saftey margins in it for higher temps... Could have been somethign like that.
15 March 2004, 01:49 PM
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FrenchBoy - Horrified that they think that wheel is OK.
- You should take a digital picture and post it on here for comments!
I had terrible outside edge tyre wear and eventually this was tracked down to incorrect geometry - probably from the factory as the settings were so consistent side to side! My set of 4 (once rotated) lasted 16,000 miles .....
As you know - I bought my car from SGT and other than one minor pain with one of the sales staff - I have nothing but compliments for them!
- You should take a digital picture and post it on here for comments!
I had terrible outside edge tyre wear and eventually this was tracked down to incorrect geometry - probably from the factory as the settings were so consistent side to side! My set of 4 (once rotated) lasted 16,000 miles .....
As you know - I bought my car from SGT and other than one minor pain with one of the sales staff - I have nothing but compliments for them!
15 March 2004, 02:15 PM
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Mark,
like i said, neither the garage i took the wheel to to have new tyres fitted or sgt were concerned about the dent. this is despite me asking several times if it was safe (and a quick way for sgt to get £250).
cheers for the concern though!
like i said, neither the garage i took the wheel to to have new tyres fitted or sgt were concerned about the dent. this is despite me asking several times if it was safe (and a quick way for sgt to get £250).
cheers for the concern though!
27 March 2004, 11:03 AM
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Rolling Roads Aint That Good
FrenchBoy Now that I've had a chance to give the new ECU a good running in period I thought I'd let you know how I got on with a power run through the lanes.
Power on the Rolling Road was 240 but on the REAL Road 280-285!! What a difference. Everything was working at 100% and Pat who did the Power Run telemetry on his laptop was well chuffed with the way my car performs. To the extent that unless I'm prepared to start modding the car there's not much else that can be done to ramp up the figures.
In short my dealer Wilsons are the dogs dangly bits when it comes to after sales service and I say a big thank you to them because they didn't have to change the ECU. Martin I owe you an apology you were spot on.
After my experience I personally think that R/Rds are a waste of money and do not give you a real indication of what your car is performing because so many variables can affect the figures as has happened to me.
I hope your car is running sweetly now
Regards
Supercue
Power on the Rolling Road was 240 but on the REAL Road 280-285!! What a difference. Everything was working at 100% and Pat who did the Power Run telemetry on his laptop was well chuffed with the way my car performs. To the extent that unless I'm prepared to start modding the car there's not much else that can be done to ramp up the figures.
In short my dealer Wilsons are the dogs dangly bits when it comes to after sales service and I say a big thank you to them because they didn't have to change the ECU. Martin I owe you an apology you were spot on.
After my experience I personally think that R/Rds are a waste of money and do not give you a real indication of what your car is performing because so many variables can affect the figures as has happened to me.
I hope your car is running sweetly now
Regards
Supercue
27 March 2004, 11:11 AM
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The map was running fine it was the R/Rd that was out Phil.
I'm so much happier now I know that the car is doing what it should.
just a shame I cant' get it up to 330 tho
I'm so much happier now I know that the car is doing what it should.
just a shame I cant' get it up to 330 tho
27 March 2004, 08:01 PM
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Supercue,
glad to hear it mate. As you say, at the end of the day its how the car feels on the road that matters!
Yes, mines running sweetly at the moment had a little play with an Evo VII today and was quite surprised when he didnt trash me in a straight line!
I'm going to G-force's rolling road next saturday so i'll see for myself what the supposed official figure is. regardless of the result i wont have any complaints with the way my car is performing at the moment.
glad to hear it mate. As you say, at the end of the day its how the car feels on the road that matters!
Yes, mines running sweetly at the moment had a little play with an Evo VII today and was quite surprised when he didnt trash me in a straight line!
I'm going to G-force's rolling road next saturday so i'll see for myself what the supposed official figure is. regardless of the result i wont have any complaints with the way my car is performing at the moment.
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