moses

lol ajm

nothing wrong with being extreme in a nice way, it means being strong in your beliefs

and by the way i dont believe in suicide bombing, if i was in a war i believe in warfare, why get killed while u can try to live and kill more of your oppressors ( soldiers not civilians) that is the proper islamic way and if u get killed awesome u are a martyr anyway so chechen style is the proper style , the original style that is, now their contaminated with arab teachings, see suicide bombing is new and it came from lebanon from the hezbollah and a christian girl called loulla aboud


and i like the s.a.s. way and the chechen way, my hero;s and saladdin is one of my greatest heros

read about him.


i believe if someone wants to suicide bomb people they should send their children first who they brought up and their wives kept in 9 months before they brainwash others kids to do it.

but i do agree with resistance, resistance till death against the oppressor

so pls ajm i dont wanna talk about palestine now, im giving u my views on what i believe


cheers


and geezer have a read at the embrology in the quran



http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1.htm
and other stuff go to next page when u read it

moses

one more thing ajm

that guy with the ak-47 and the suicide belt was a muslim but he was also your fellow englishman, is it ok for israel to bomb england pmsl

Alan C

Moses,

If I want to know why a Ducati was made the way it was, I'll ask its creator, or someone whoknws him well enough to answer.

If you want to make Viagra at home, then I'm sure you could do just that if you had the knowledge from what is known of the process and the money.

If I want to know how something was done, that doesn't have a direct and traceable history, such as the Pyramids or Stonehenge, then I rely on Scientists and historians to come up with a 'Best Guess' answer from the KNOWN facts and highly probables. I will then make up my mind from the several other similar theories and choose.

Similarly, you and all the other believers of a faith, have chosen your stance on what was written 1,400 years ago (in the case of the Qu'ran) that must be some sort of best guess as to what actually happened (or do you believe everything that is written? if not why not?). The Bible, in all its guises, is a non-scientific document is based on no factual, provable or sustainable evidence.

God created the big bang? Show me the theories, mathematical and logical analysis that is required to back up such claims?

All of the 'fantastical' stories of parting seas, smiting armies with sound, feeding 1,000's with a few pieces of bread and fish etc etc etc etc... are great stories and tales.. All of this happened over a period of a few hundred years (if that) with nothing happening for Billions of years before man arrived; and nothing has happened since ...

If you are a free thinking, logical person with a fully questioning and open mind, you MUST accept that SOME of those stories MAY be untrue..

moses

lol " see quess work" atheist doesnt like admitting it and always uses this phrase, well mate b-o-l-l-o-c-k-s coz those guys couldnt have guessed all that stuff and about other planets

when people thought the world was flat , quran told us it was round like oval

so it aint guess work and the moon doesnt have a light its borrowed light from the sun, it wasnt guesswork it was in the quran for real

so dont give me that

and yes i agree, about ducati , so ask God, im sure when u are i die we can ask him otherwise its nothing wrong with questioning , we aint been around other planets and also we werent their before man so how the **** can i tell u what happened , if u wanna believe about apes and sea animals becoming lad animals , fair does go ahead but stop slagging people who wanna believe


and do read those books, u still aint doing it mate, u are narrow minded not open

moses

and by the way , prove your own existence , we cant so how can we prove alot of other things , we can only "guess"


their is no moral law in athiesm

so if an athiest feels like satisfying himself he can kill to feel good, to rape, main, ethnic cleanse, do whatever he wants,

if u ask an evil man did u do evil, he will say no, i did what was right

so if human instinct is this fecked up , where is the moral aspect and can u explain to me what athiesm says to that

moses

alan i wish God gave me the power of spawn without the burned face of course

i will luv to do Good in the world and save the good people and slaughter the evil oppressors





i call spawn the supermujahid





i aint no madman, i had hopes to help save the world one day

i used to pray to God all the time to give me the power of spawn and the prophets to do good

Geezer

I read those articles Moses, and at least they are a decent attempt, unlike the drivel put about by the Christian religion!

However, they were rather tenuous, especially the big bang one. Saying that God created the world out of smoke is not the same as saying the Quran talks about big bang theory!

Geezer

moses

u are looking at the wrong paragraph

God actually says about the universe , not the smoke bit


their are pages of it u will come across it


smoke one is to do with something else

moses

sorry i couldnt save the link coz


but if u go to that page u will see the actual pics of the universe
C) The Quran on the Origin of the Universe:
The science of modern cosmology, observational and theoretical, clearly indicates that, at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of ‘smoke’ (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition).1 This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology. Scientists now can observe new stars forming out of the remnants of that ‘smoke’ (see figures 10 and 11).





Figure 10: A new star forming out of a cloud of gas and dust (nebula), which is one of the remnants of the ‘smoke’ that was the origin of the whole universe. (The Space Atlas, Heather and Henbest, p. 50.)





Figure 11: The Lagoon nebula is a cloud of gas and dust, about 60 light years in diameter. It is excited by the ultraviolet radiation of the hot stars that have recently formed within its bulk. (Horizons, Exploring the Universe, Seeds, plate 9, from Association of Universities for Research in Astronomy, Inc.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)


The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that ‘smoke’ material. God has said in the Quran:

Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke... (Quran, 41:11)

Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same ‘smoke,’ we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous ‘smoke,’ they formed and separated from each other. God has said in the Quran:

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?... (Quran, 21:30)

Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renowned geologists. He is Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany. He said: “Thinking where Muhammad came from . . . I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case.”2 (To view the RealPlayer video of th

moses

did u know the arab people were the most civilized after the quran

no bull geezer ask the scientists even

but after the met the west they went backwards heeheee


fecking idiots they stopped thinking


here have a look

http://www.aalulbayt.org/html/eng/qu...-in-the-quran/


good stuff

moses

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/scislam.html

have a look mate


and also in the quran God said about the universe about spreading etc etc

scientists now say they sent a rocket yrs and yrs ago, its never ending what they see now through the pics looks like what they saw in the start, its never ending , universe is massive

mn_angrybeats

LOL at the comic called the Quran, your only on this planet for a visit so why concern yourself with all this religious bollocks, the only reason is IMO is if you have nothing going on in your life, your boring, sad, nothing better to do, lonely, thick etc etc.....

Only my opinion of course, Moses before your reply try responding to someone who gives a **** I would'nt bother

ajm

Moses, I'm just wondering, with all this fervour and posting frenzy, are you trying to convert your readers?

mn_angrybeats

What does the Quran say about Honor Killing, Female Genital Mutilation, Gender Equality & Women's Dress ???

Alan C

OK. That's me finished with this thread.

When every answer you formulate, muster and eventually quote verbatim comes from a single book written from ancient history, with no expansion or deviation into any other field, regardless of the arguments placed against you; Only then does it show how single minded and utterly bereft of lateral or free thinking some people can be.

With such 'blindness' affecting a great proportion of the World, then Moses is correct; It is completely hopeless to expect, and wish, that such people would look at their world from another perspective.

Yes Moses, the 'world is fecked up'.

moses

lol @ alan no probs mate, we part our ways but God bless u and your family


ajm im not , come one buddy who started on the non religious stuff was it me , ajm why do i get all the blame , i was talking about malaysia, it was my friend alan c who started on science and now u gonna blame me too about starting it, lol am i a SCAPEGOAT for everything , im not converting anyone, if someone wants to convert they would do with their own power

we were talking about science only coz our dear friend alan wanted to talk about it after i mentioned in my first post, NO ATHIESTS ALLOWED EXCEPT AKSHAY

akshay is cool my fave athiest and he is my brother too and reasons but doesnt insult



getting to know alan here, alan c u seem a cool person, God bless u hahaaha i cant help saying that

and mr angrybeats, lynne my dear pls this man comes in my threads for trouble so im not gonna entertain him but i AM GONNA ANSWER HIS QUERY

angrybeats posted

----------------------


What does the Quran say about Honor Killing, Female Genital Mutilation, Gender Equality & Women's Dress ???
-------------------------------------------------------------




angrybeats, i promise i will give u 100 pounds if u find me a verse about honour killings and female genital mutilation.


1. honour killings no such thing in the quran, not even stoning the adulterer, their is a punishment of 80 lashes for adulterers and also only if their r 4 wtiness's and after cross examining them , if it aint the same story , the case is thrown out.

also the husband or wife have the right to divorce or forgive and adulterers are only allowed to marry adulterress's

no honour killing in the quran, thats more of a culture thing about shame etc than anything else.

or their is another thing, if anyone accuses a woman of being an adulterer or even a man, in proper islamic law, if the person doesnt have 4 witness;s , that person will be whipped and punished and in the future , nothing would be believed of what he says, ask a scholar if u wanna confirm.


islam protects a woman, mr angrybeats would u like your mum to commit adultery, behind your good fathers back she ***** every c;unt in the neighbourhood, would u want to see your dad doing the same.

Allah has given us a law, if a man thinks he cant help it and if he can be fair with the woman and his wife is ok about it, he can marry, marriage is purer than adultery and u are giving a woman a right not just using her as an animal , a woman is a human and delicate and should be well looked after and treated as a human not someone on the side.

in the west a woman can work hard as a man and get less wages, but in the west soon as a woman strips and shows her **** and body and if she works in a lapdance club or is a ***** or is a **** star, straight away she will make more money, i call that oppression too , i luv my woman covered.


2. in the quran God speaks about a womans dignity and she should be well covered, doesnt mention how much, thats up to the individual and it also SAYS WHEN A MAN SEE'S A WOMAN, HE SHOULD LOWER HIS GAZE, but men are such b@stards they dont.



go out in a friday night angrybeats, your lady dresses up in a skimpy dress , **** and ***** falling out and then theirs her friend , well covered, who do u think will be insulted by yobs or whistled at or tried to be chat up. u guess.


3. about female genital mutiliation, may God curse the evil b@stards that do that, nothing like this in the quran, sex is for man and woman to enjoy and to luv each other, enjoyment is for both, no where in the quran, again its a culture thing.

early muslims came from pharoahs aka egyptians and africans, same time as the arabs, culturally according to their pagan teachings and idolatary before, they used to practice this evil in some countries, mainly in egypt , some parts of arabia and africa, when they became muslims they brought this culture with them

its like my hindu cousins, when some of them became muslims they brought their culture with them as in dowry from a womans family( in islam its not allowed, dowry comes from a mans family), the red wedding suit etc etc


mongolians brought their own culture into islam, chinese brought their own culture and so did the europeans as in spanish, bosnians etc , bosnian muslims follow islam and also their own law called i cant remember, its some kind of bosnian book about blood and laws about different things

see nothing to do with islam its to do with culture

like early roman christians brought in the pagan cultures of st valentine and idols in the catholic church etc etc etc and paintings and popery.

moses

1. O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.

2. To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.

3. If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

4. And give the women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, Take it and enjoy it with right good cheer.



---------------------------



islam gave womans rights before any other religion and culture, property , divorce rights etc etc, man has no power over his wives property but a wife has power over her mans


12. In what your wives leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. If the man or woman whose inheritance is in question, has left neither ascendants nor descendants, but has left a brother or a sister, each one of the two gets a sixth; but if more than two, they share in a third; after payment of legacies and debts; so that no loss is caused (to any one). Thus is it ordained by Allah. and Allah is All-knowing, Most Forbearing
------------------------------------------------
19. O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.

20. But if ye decide to take one wife in place of another, even if ye had given the latter a whole treasure for dower, Take not the least bit of it back: Would ye take it by slander and manifest wrong?

21. And how could ye take it when ye have gone in unto each other, and they have Taken from you a solemn covenant?

22. And marry not women whom your fathers married,- except what is past: It was shameful and odious,- an abominable custom indeed.

23. Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suckle, milk), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-

24. Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

25. If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

26. Allah doth wish to make clear to you and to show you the ordinances of those before you; and (He doth wish to) turn to you (In Mercy): And Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

27. Allah doth wish to Turn to you, but the wish of those who follow their lusts is that ye should turn away (from Him),- far, far away.

28. Allah doth wish to lighten your (difficulties): For man was created Weak (in flesh).

29. O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!

30. If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for Allah.

31. If ye (but) eschew the most heinous of the things which ye are forbidden to do, We shall expel out of you all the evil in you, and admit you to a gate of great honour.

32. And in no wise covet those things in which Allah Hath bestowed His gifts More freely on some of you than on others: To men is allotted what they earn, and to women what they earn: But ask Allah of His bounty. For Allah hath full knowledge of all things.

33. To (benefit) every one, We have appointed shares and heirs to property left by parents and relatives. To those, also, to whom your right hand was pledged, give their due portion. For truly Allah is witness to all things.

--------------------
35. If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.

36. Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;-

------------------


1. O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately), their prescribed periods: And fear Allah your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah. and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new situation.

2. Thus when they fulfil their term appointed, either take them back on equitable terms or part with them on equitable terms; and take for witness two persons from among you, endued with justice, and establish the evidence (as) before Allah. Such is the admonition given to him who believes in Allah and the Last Day. And for those who fear Allah, He (ever) prepares a way out,

3. And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine. And if any one puts his trust in Allah, sufficient is ((Allah)) for him. For Allah will surely accomplish his purpose: verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion.

4. Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

5. That is the Command of Allah, which He has sent down to you: and if any one fears Allah, He will remove his ills, from him, and will enlarge his reward.

6. Let the women live (in 'iddat) in the same style as ye live, according to your means: Annoy them not, so as to restrict them. And if they carry (life in their wombs), then spend (your substance) on them until they deliver their burden: and if they suckle your (offspring), give them their recompense: and take mutual counsel together, according to what is just and reasonable. And if ye find yourselves in difficulties, let another woman suckle (the child) on the (father's) behalf.

7. Let the man of means spend according to his means: and the man whose resources are restricted, let him spend according to what Allah has given him. Allah puts no burden on any person beyond what He has given him. After a difficulty, Allah will soon grant relief.

moses

http://www.islamicproductions.com/womencompar.html

womans rights in islam compare to the bible


http://www.iad.org/books/S-women.html



http://ourislamonline.tripod.com/id268.htm


more

http://www.beconvinced.com/RELIGION/WOMENCHIS.htm




http://www.ymofmd.com/books/wijct/

Redkop

Moses please give it a rest. Try and discuss logically and politely without the need to copy and paste all the time and don't demean others because they don't see it your way or agree with you.

Everyone is allowed their own thoughts and opinions.

Also may I remind you of the title of this forum and it's description for what it's for...........

Current World Events
Events happening in the world today

Geezer

Moses,
I don't think anyone is saying the Quran advocates mercy killing, female mutilation or forces women to wear burkas. However, these things are prevalent in Islamic communities, not western Christian ones.

Now before you immediately jump into a simple tit for tat exchange, listing the faults (as you see them ) of the western/christian way of life, please simply answer the question why Islamic countries/communities not only turn a blind eye to this horrors, but in many cases encourage them?

Geezer

moses

minority do mate, go to pakistan and saudi arabia, u only hear it in the news but its only a minority and i do agree its a problem

the problem wasnt their mate a few hundred yrs ago, even in in ottomon turkey it wasnt like that, after colonlsation was over, mate alot of muslims like in iran, afghanistan , pakistan and others went too westernised, iran had clubs, lebabon had brothels and nigthclubs and loadsa drinking that was too westernised and the extremists then took charge and went too extreme, instead of talking to the people nicely and doing things in a respectful manner extremists believed they have to come hard , if we dont we will loose the majority too these sins too and they went the other way, as u saw in iran mate.


see stoning the adulterer is in the bible mate not the quran, its a law of the old testament.


people forget jews were a wandering people, they had no time to build jails, in prophet moses time, and after they were wandering so God gave them a law to suit their needs, like a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye, but they opted for this instead of forgiving, well the laws were quick to suit the needs , so they didnt have time to put them in jails they were living in the dessert so if the jews commited a sin either they would be killed or punished according to the needs.

etc etc

when jesus came he didnt abolish the law of stoning the adulterer
he is a muslim prophet and he follows Gods law too

they came to him and said oh rabbi this woman is an adulterer and jesus said cast the first tone who has never sinned and the bible says jesus started scribbling on the sand while he was sitting, people looked over his shoulder and saw what he wrote and basically became ashamed and went away.


do u know what jesus was doing, he was scribbling the names of those people who accused mary magdalene about sin and those hypocrites weres sinful themselves and jesus was scribbling their names and what they were doing and within a few moments the streets were empty again.

all those folk after this helpless prostitute or whatever she was.

and jesus asked her as a muslim he was, where are your accusers, she looks around, she said they are not here , well jesus said go and sin no more

she had no witness's against her and he forgave her, what a awesome thing to do and gave her a chance and she became an awesome muslim ( believer in God, jew, muslim, follower of christ).


so it aint in the quran its a christian and jewish thing


geezer mate in the old days, the christians treated woman as the devil and the one who entertains the devil, adam was thrown out coz of the evil of a woman and they treated them bad, beheaded them and even accused them of being a witch and they used to burn them , do u remember, its in the bible that u should do that not in the quran.


what christians are doing now isnt christianity, its a throwback to what the christians used to do and now what u see in the western world are christians by name

be right back mate, customers here need to serve

moses

sorry mate im back, customer needed help


so coz the muslims were afraid to loose their people mate to westernisation and something that was against their religion they went to the extreme to stop it.


geezer those muslims were afraid , as u see today , look at the catholic church its a shambles , its sad to see, a man and woman can sin day and night and commit adutlery with others or cheat or do anything they want, coz they believed jesus died for their sins, they dont need to worry and when they confess to a priest all will be forgiven, its fecked up i have to say, i apologise to my catholic brethren, i call them that coz im pro irish being a celtic man and they are my brethren.

a man will sleep with his wives best pal or sister and then confess

to understand a muslim, geezer u need to understand their mind and the shame of loosing their child , a muslim family is family oriented like some of the southern irish, slowly their loosing it too, italians still have it in them but their loosing it too to western ways.

geezer imagine mate, u luv your daughter she is your beloved lil girl, when she is older, she gets used as meat from other boys, she will dress up to feel happy but not really for herself, she thinks its for herself, showing a leg and a lil bit of meat for them men makes her feel special, she knows her legs are good she see's it all the time, she is showing it to other men to feel sexy about herself.

a woman going out with every other man every week , used as a meat, ravaged down and her dignity taken away from her, mate a muslim father is afraid of that and it kills him to suffer that and to suffer shame

and to live a life out of marriage with a man and not knowing who the father was or even having children from 5 different fathers etc

in islam marriage is the way, u are giving a right to a woman and if u **** her about she will screw u, islam gave them this right to screw u for her share , it was opted after the renassiance by the christians.


and to have a son who ***** every woman on the planet and same story again mate.

God forgives but he forgives the truly repentful not the ones who used their religion to suit themselves

i hope i havent offended anyone but i do hope u understand my point, my people are afraid they will loose all this.


geezer, lets say your sister is a good woman, if she works somewhere , her boss;s will use her to promote a product or even flirt with the customer, thats why in islam they try not to get their daughters to work for men or with other men

as u know geezer a man is hot blooded and when we do work with a nice looking woman, u know mate, u always try to look good for her and something funny happens u get that feeling

moses

a plea to the mods, this is becoming a good thread pls dont lock it cheers



geezer, i found this for u, from my fave fatwah website


here is a fatwah from a scholar , a muslim sister needed help


------------------------


Question and Answer Details

Name of Questioner Convert wife United States
Title I Only Want Paradise
Question As-salamu `alaykum.
How does a convert wife resolve the unexpected difficulties of an arranged marriage? How does she deal with the husband's tendency to be emotionally involved with his friends instead of his wife? I have now been married for several years to an Arab man and I am in the position that I must work outside the home, since he must support several relatives in his country. We have no children together and since I am in my late 40's, I doubt that there will be any. I have grown children here and he has a number of school-age sons in the Middle East.

He misrepresented himself extensively before the marriage, so I am dealing with forgiving him for his lies, while attempting to find some kind of relationship with him. I am also stymied by the realization that I am not attracted to him in any way. This is an unexpected by-product of the arranged marriage and has been exacerbated by the poor start that the marriage has had. Due to his responsibilities back home, he works several jobs. He contributes only part of his income to the household upkeep, so, not only must I work, I must contribute everything I earn to try to make ends meet.

I am completely self-supporting in all areas. While I have little pocket money, he has bought himself two used cars in the last few months, along with a plethora of duplicate household items, which he puts in boxes and stores away for some reason or other. We are on a very tight budget, especially now since I was in a car accident recently. Although I talk to him about living within one's means, he simply borrows money from his friends to finance his purchases. This is extremely difficult for me to accept since I know that the husband is to provide full support for the wife, as well as to treat her fairly. I get the short end of the stick financially and emotionally.

I have finally accepted that although my marriage is a very miserable for me, the situation does not meet the requirements for divorce in Islam. I now attempt to fulfill my duties with an eye toward Paradise instead of the present. However, sometimes it is all I can do to keep from crying in his presence, as infrequent as that is. The marriage seems so wrong and I do not know how to deal with my lack of interest in him. I am used to caring for the man before marriage takes place. It feels to me like the marriage was over before it began.

In the past, I had memories of good times to help me through the rough spots. This time there are no good memories since his betrayal became apparent as soon as the marriage was consummated. I only have determination to go on now, and since I suffer from depression anyway, every day with him is a heavy burden. Although I once was ready to give up on Islam because of this situation, I realized that I do not need to go to Hell for all eternity because of lack of marital fulfillment. What is perhaps the most difficult of all is that I cannot find a way to respect him as a wife is supposed to do.

I try to obey him, although I do not agree with most of his decisions and find him extremely self-centered. I do fulfill the conjugal requirements; however, it is completely joyless for me. Therefore, now I feel guilty for not being a good enough wife for a man that seems to have no interest that I might have feelings, opinions or needs. If I express anything other than a blanket assent for his behavior, I am considered 'nasty' and he loses his temper. I am horribly lonely. The double-edged sword is that although I am virtually alone in this marriage, I am so tired of attempting to please someone that I do not want to spend my life with, unless he decides to abide by Allah's rules for marriage.

He is a product of his culture and I do not realistically think that there will be any change on his part. Do I just find a purpose for myself in volunteering at the mosque or at work? I have decided to become very religious so that I can try to find meaning in my life in this manner. I realize that I will stay in this marriage, I just need some guidance in how to survive while doing so.


Name of Counsellor Abdullah Abdur Rahman
Topic Married to someone from overseas
Answer


As-salamu `alaykum.

Thank you for writing to us. We cannot imagine how difficult it must have been for you to sit down and type out your feelings about your marriage and your husband. We understand how frustrating it must be for you to be married to someone you are not attracted to, with whom you have no emotional ties, and who has no interest in your feelings, opinions or needs. May Allah Most High grant you comfort, solace, and ultimately grant you Paradise for striving to hold this marriage together. Ameen!

First, we want to say how much we appreciate your outlook. Your feelings have obviously evolved quite a bit, so that through Allah’s guidance you have resolved to earn your place in Paradise, in return for your sacrifices on earth, mostly because of your marriage. Of course, some people would say that you are being foolish and that you should think about yourself and move on with your life. We agree with your decision and commend you for having hope in the mercy and compassion of Allah Most High.

However, we do have some concerns. You are too accepting of his shortcomings, some of which rise to the level of wanton neglect of you and his household responsibilities. Every chance you get, you should try to help him understand how painful it is for you to just survive in the marriage. Take some initiative to help him become more caring and loving towards you.

Second, we are troubled by the fact that you married a man without knowing much about him. What does it mean to have an “arranged” marriage? What role did you play in “arranging” this marriage? How can you be sure that there are not even more lies than the ones you know about? Can you be certain that your husband will not walk out on you one day? Do you have a support network of family and friends that you can talk to in order to help you get through each day?

Third, we agree with you wholeheartedly that your husband is self-centered and is not going to change in the near future. However, we are concerned that he could only become more self-centered and further neglect your well-being. He is in breach of the wedding contract, because he is supposed to be providing for you and not making you provide for yourself. Since you do work and provide for yourself, it seems he is only encouraged to continue being as selfish as he is. Have you talked to him about your not working? What does he say? Of course, you should continue working if you know for sure that he will not support you, and by working, you are overcoming some of your loneliness by talking to your colleagues at work.

Finally, we think you will,in sha’ Allah, survive if you continue to work and spend time volunteering at the mosque. The reward is obviously yours, because Allah Most High knows the sacrifices you are making. What worries us is that it is quite possible that your husband will one day simply walk out on you, because he either feels he can walk all over you, or because just as you are not attracted to him, he no longer feels compelled to stay married to you. Never let him feel that you have no options and that you are staying married to him because you cannot go anywhere else. On the contrary, you should always present yourself as strong, self-sufficient, and Allah-conscious. Remind him of his duties to Allah and to you. Help him to come to terms with the fact that although you might be patient with him in this life, Allah Most High will for sure hold him accountable for neglecting his duties towards you.

We cannot end without saying that you should have a contingency plan ready just in case your husband decides to walk out on you, or if your patience runs thin and you want to end the marriage. There is a lot we do not know about your marriage and that is the only reason we caution you in this way.

Allah knows best.


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Geezer

But you are saying that women only show a bit of flesh for mens benefit. That's quite an assumption. OK, young women do like to look good for various reasons, one of them obviously being for the benfit of the opposite sex. But what is wrong with that? It's just courtship rituals.

The women have the choice whether they wish to display themselves in such a manner, not dictated to them, which seems to be the difference.

Monogamy is not a natural state of affairs for humans/primates (in fact most animals). Males will try to propogate themselves as much as they can, and females will try to look for the best bet to father children, which will not necessarily be the same man for the next child. These are sub conscious things, over which we have little control, and are in direct conflict with the model of life to which you think we should follow. So the loose western morals which you abhor are actually a natural state of affairs, held slightly in check by the legacy of teachings of Judaism/Islam.Christianity.

Whilst I agree that I do not particularly want my daughter to go off and **** everything in sight, that is more from a health and safety perspective. She must lead the life she wants utlimately.

You also said that in the old days, christians treated women like the devil. Ture, maybe, but now they are (albeit slowly) trying to make them more equal in all ways. Islam still (IMO) sees them as second class citizens, with little or no rights. Who is to say that women whould cover up? Why should they? WHat possible harm can a women do by showing off her legs, midriff, face etc. that would not be done by a man showing the same? Let's be honest, women are a lot nicer to look at than men anyway!

You cannot say it's free chioce that Muslim women cover up, because they are indoctrinated from birth that this is the correct way to be. If you look at women in non Islamic (so not necessarily western), some will cover up and some will not. That is free choice in action.

Geezer

moses

hi mate the last bit is so wrong, geezer, im a muslim and i know majority of the muslim woman who do wear a hijab is from their own choice, not forced


its a minority who are forced to wear it and its not about doctrine, its about following the religion. u dont complain when nuns are wearing it mate , they dont even have the privelage of having a husband and making luv and having kids


and in pure islam, woman arent forced to wear a hijab, u cant force them, but u can ask them and also its their choice if they wanna wear it but i prefer a woman covered up in a respectful manner, and it took christianity 1920 yrs to given a woman a right , islam gave them it from day one and right upto the caliphate , after conolisation the muslims have been in diasporo, they actually dont know what the **** their doing , look at the countries some of them are in a mess, they tried to implent different things, but these politicians are fecking it for everyone for their own benefit



and trust me woman arent treated as second class citizens but only in a few countries not all of them and also same can be said here, see it from the muslims eyes, we see western woman treated as second class citizens too, the way they are treated.


and geezer, i wont want my daughter to go and follow a life of sin, i want her to be happy and i will try my best to teach her the islamic way and to lead a righteous life and make her a martial arts expert , so she can defend herself against men and others and danger and also she would have the right to chose a good muslim man or even someone who converted to islam, race doesnt matter to me.


i dont blame u geezer, one thing i noticed we both see things with different eyes, which is good what u see as oppression and what i see as oppression of woman in the west.


and mate woman are beautiful and like all things delicate and precious it should be covered


like the gold, oil, diamonds their all covered underground , precious stuff and a woman should be covered in a respectful manner, she aint a walking circus.


i luv woman, trust me im a muslim and i try to practice but im a lover and a romeo, i want 4 wives but i cant coz i luv my wife and she would be hurt and i know for sure, i wont be able to luv and be equal with them coz i luv my wife too much and i cant see my beloved hurt
but i want many woman

Geezer

We'll have to agree to disagree about what consitutes choice!

However, thru your posting on here, you have attempted to show us the good side of Islam, and in all fairness, you have in certain circumstances. I have learned a few things I didn;t previously know, which have surprised me (but not enough to make me believe in any God ).

So, allow me to ask you one pointed question, which hopefully will solicit an equally pointed answer.

Why, given the fair minded, tolerant face of Islam that you have protrayed, why has the Islamic world not roundedly condemned (indeed supported) the actions of groups or regimes dedicated to the pursuit of terrorism and religous intolerance?

Geezer

Ted Maul

Geezer - to get a balanced view you need to hear all views. ask a rabbi how jews/muslims/christians came about, why the jews are so spread around the world, persecuted etc etc

There's quite a movement in the Jewish world for women to break free of religious oppression, which has led to a few different sects being formed that practice equality in prayer / dress etc.

Moses-does Islam believe that women are too pure to use certain prayers as in Judaism? I'm sure they have the same view but wanted to check.

scoobysnacks

Moses, why do you have such devotion to the ideas in the ramblings of old books - it wasn't forced upon you from an early age by any chance...?
Do you believe in science? If so, which bits do you conveniently ignore to fit in with the religion you follow?

Edit because the use of the word garbage was perhaps a bit harsh...

moses

scoobysnacks i would have answered u if u didnt say religious garbage, so i wont answer u now cheers



teds post
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Moses-does Islam believe that women are too pure to use certain prayers as in Judaism? I'm sure they have the same view but wanted to check.
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not at all buddy, will try to get u some links, i had a good one once, a jewish sister asked me she was an american and i passed a site on to her 2 yrs back it was good, woman are always pure , when they have their menses or periods, their state is impure but not them and and islamic prayers are for them too , they can use them


and geezer islam only has a good side, bad side is the humans same as any other religion mate u should know that




budhism is so peaceful and good and go to sri lanka and see what the buddhists are doing to the tamil hindus, it aint right but nothing to do with buddhism aint it



and mate , about the tolerant side, go to malaysia and some parts of africa where their aint war and u will see the proper islamic side, trust me the state of the muslim countries just now is fecked up, no one can practice the way it should be under pverty, oppression from their own leaders etc


look at the arabs or my fellow "muslims" how many do u see with high class prostitues, i dont call them religious, i call them hypcrites , u get bad in all religions, go to dubai and see how they treat their own fellow muslims from pakistan , india and the phillipines and other people, its nothing to do with islam, its do to with man himself.

like i said mate , islam has only been free for 50 yrs , after the caliphate finished, u will see , things are changing slowly, pure islam is forming in the west, i can practice islam freely in my country scotland than back home, back home i have a big mouth that would get me killed coz i stand against some religious b@stards who follow their own teachings rather than islam and i call them things that caused me problems in the city of my grandfather, im extreme to my own too but in a nice way.


geezer majority of the new muslims are all white, come one mate, why, ask the question , why do they become muslims, especially the woman and go to texas, the most racist state after mississipi in the usa has the fastest growing white muslim population in the whole of the usa



be right back wife is angry now

Geezer

Moses,
Of course I know religion isn't bad, it's people, that's something we definitely agree on!

But please answer my question. I don't doubt that the majority of Muslims are tolerant reasonable people, but whenever you speak to them about the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan, the reply is always "they shoudln't attack a muslim country" or "they are against Islam". Shouldn't it be "phew, I'm glad that someone has done something about the Taliban, who are an affront to true Islam and show us in a bad light", or "It's a good job job someone has removed that tyrant Saddam who was slaughtering Muslims".

It's almost like the Masons, they close ranks whatever the issue, because it seems that Muslims wish to protect Muslims whatever the cost, despite what the Quran teaches.

Geezer