Not back 24 hours, and causing trouble already
11 March 2004, 03:25 PM
#91
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the taliban had nothing specifically to gain from the deal, which involved piping gas from Turkmenistan, through Afghan territory and into the Iranian gulf.
The yanks had everything to gain from it and now the taliban are gone, the pipeline is being built. I made a mistake though, Unocal - not Haliburton - is building the pipeline...
The yanks had everything to gain from it and now the taliban are gone, the pipeline is being built. I made a mistake though, Unocal - not Haliburton - is building the pipeline...
11 March 2004, 03:32 PM
#92
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afghanistan had sanctions and many people were suffering, no support from the usa and other countries, no aid, of course they had to produce opium to live , they should have been helped after russia left but usa likes using people and when their goal is achieved they leave them for ****
11 March 2004, 03:37 PM
#93
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Anyone interested in Taliban could do worse than read this book. Very intense, very detailed, very complicated. Most frustrating thing now is that it finishes in about March 99. I don't know if there's an updated version. I just finished it a week ago, my wife's into it now, she says it makes her jaw drop.
11 March 2004, 03:44 PM
#94
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'afghanistan had sanctions and many people were suffering, no support from the usa and other countries, no aid, of course they had to produce opium to live , they should have been helped after russia left but usa likes using people and when their goal is achieved they leave them for ****'
and of course nothing to do with the corrupt ruling bodies who do nothing to help their own populace.
you are blinded by your hatred for the US
and of course nothing to do with the corrupt ruling bodies who do nothing to help their own populace.
you are blinded by your hatred for the US
11 March 2004, 03:59 PM
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lynne it pi55es me off
shrek the **** wannabe attacked me with this
--------------
you are blinded by your hatred for the US
--------
and i gave him an answer but u pull me up but dont do nothing about the real troublemaker
how come lynne , we have spoken with each other for nearly 3 yrs and u know if i aint extreme or not, but u deleted my post while u let the slag shrek go on
shrek the **** wannabe attacked me with this
--------------
you are blinded by your hatred for the US
--------
and i gave him an answer but u pull me up but dont do nothing about the real troublemaker
how come lynne , we have spoken with each other for nearly 3 yrs and u know if i aint extreme or not, but u deleted my post while u let the slag shrek go on
11 March 2004, 04:05 PM
#101
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B20 - just click on the link. there's no point in debating the obvious.
So we are all wrong and you are right? OK whatever you want to think
Oh and I can't click on the link as its blocked by my employers proxy server due to its content about drugs.
Last edited by Bravo2zero_sps; 11 March 2004 at 04:06 PM.
11 March 2004, 04:13 PM
#102
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I am not arguing for the taliban just that once they started indoctrinating children to their ways it became inevitable how these people would act. moses is right anyway the world is fecked it just happens that we live in a nice part that survives pretty well.
So far. So is it time to be happy for how we live , miserable because so many people don't have it so well or accept that the yin and yang philosophy is correct and accept that some people see fit to murder people on trains who have done them no diredt harm whatsover while others strive to help people wherever they can.
So far. So is it time to be happy for how we live , miserable because so many people don't have it so well or accept that the yin and yang philosophy is correct and accept that some people see fit to murder people on trains who have done them no diredt harm whatsover while others strive to help people wherever they can.
11 March 2004, 04:18 PM
#103
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of course its about drugs...what else did you expect?
and unlike many people, I'm quite happy to maintain my opinion. Even in the face of slightly underwhelming peer pressure
As Mark Twain once said: "when you find yourself in a majority, it is time to pause and reflect"
and unlike many people, I'm quite happy to maintain my opinion. Even in the face of slightly underwhelming peer pressure
As Mark Twain once said: "when you find yourself in a majority, it is time to pause and reflect"
11 March 2004, 04:27 PM
#105
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moses - he merely passed an observation that did not warrant your reply, which consisted of insults and name calling. This will NOT be tolerated on any threads on ScoobyNet, thats why your reply was deleted. If you persist - I will continue to delete them.
11 March 2004, 04:33 PM
#107
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And I was merely passing my observation that STIShrek is still on welfare (which is true based on his posts) and thus jealous of our lifestyle. His extremist posts have never been deleted weird enough. Is this the so called thin veiled racism that seems to be okay on Scoobynet?
11 March 2004, 04:39 PM
#109
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Heh I'm just a bit pissed off that every mod is attacking moses. His posts though my lean to the extreme left is no different to those that are posted by the extreme right in relations to the controversy that it produces. But for some reason, the right wingers seems to have the mods support on this forum..
11 March 2004, 04:49 PM
#110
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This thread was going along nicely, but is now degenerating the way that most threads have in this forum lately.
If you are unable to discuss/debate like adults and dispense with the puerile spats which lead to insults, just remember that this sort of behaviour will be not tolerated and that offensive replies will be deleted and threads subject to closure.
It’s a shame that some good discussions are spoilt this way.
If you are unable to discuss/debate like adults and dispense with the puerile spats which lead to insults, just remember that this sort of behaviour will be not tolerated and that offensive replies will be deleted and threads subject to closure.
It’s a shame that some good discussions are spoilt this way.
11 March 2004, 04:51 PM
#111
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I can only assume that lostboy/shrek/whoever is an alias for one of the mods...that's why their often crass/abusive/racist/personally offensive posts never get deleted.
redkop - those rules are fine....provided they apply to everyone and not just some.....
redkop - those rules are fine....provided they apply to everyone and not just some.....
Last edited by andrew6321; 11 March 2004 at 04:53 PM.
11 March 2004, 04:55 PM
#112
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cheers kat and yeah i agree lynne good discussions are spoiled but it all goes out the window when trolls come here to attack me and nothing gets done and when i hit back i get punished, then u blame me for thinking the mods are siding with their white counterparts
its ok to attack muslims here, thats one think i noticed the last 2 yrs and asylum seekers even the good ones but when a man defends someone like i do or anyone and reply to an attack on me , i get punished
it wasnt long when the combat 18 were posting here, do u remember kat, we complained many a time but never received a reply from the mods, only puff answered our call and thanks to him.
its ok to attack muslims here, thats one think i noticed the last 2 yrs and asylum seekers even the good ones but when a man defends someone like i do or anyone and reply to an attack on me , i get punished
it wasnt long when the combat 18 were posting here, do u remember kat, we complained many a time but never received a reply from the mods, only puff answered our call and thanks to him.
11 March 2004, 04:59 PM
#113
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Ah, I see the usual racist spoilers have pitched up, dragging everything down to their depressing level. Why these 'people' aren't banned by now is beyond me.
just looked in... time to go again.... byeee....
UB
just looked in... time to go again.... byeee....
UB
11 March 2004, 05:19 PM
#114
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Originally Posted by andrew6321
I can only assume that lostboy/shrek/whoever is an alias for one of the mods...that's why their often crass/abusive/racist/personally offensive posts never get deleted.
redkop - those rules are fine....provided they apply to everyone and not just some.....
redkop - those rules are fine....provided they apply to everyone and not just some.....
This forum is to discuss.....
Current World Events
Events happening in the world today
not to carry out personal disputes, so please, lets keep the thread on topic.
Last edited by Redkop; 11 March 2004 at 05:44 PM.
11 March 2004, 06:12 PM
#115
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This thread started poorly with lots of uninformed comment, but I was pleased to see how it pulled itself together with some well reasoned debate (until the last 20-odd threads )
Brendan, the Ahmed Rashid book looks interesting. I'd love to read it, but I think I'll struggle to find a copy in Japan.
It has been reported that one of the released UK "illegal combatants" was actually found by the US forces in a Taliban jail. That could have been for any number of reasons, like being anti-Taliban. Doesn't sound like the strongest reason in the world for holding someone in legal limbo, denied the rights to see lawyers or Red Cross and undergoing stressed interrogation for 2 years.
It's also been reported that Northern Alliance forces traded prisoners with the US for arms and money. Has anyone else heard this ? Again it's not exactly the best basis for bringing anyone to a court of law and facing trial, irrespective of whether they were active Al Qaeda or not.
The US have a big problem in deciding what to do with the Guantanamo detainees. To try them in military tribunerals without the same rights, representation, and transparency as a civil court will invite criticism for years to come. It can't easily release them back to Afghanistan as then people will ask why they were detained for so long. The principles of international law they cite as justifying the holdin of "illegal combatants" until hostilities are over mean that they effectively have to hold onto them indefinitely as the war against terrorism can never be declared as over. What a mess !
)Brendan, the Ahmed Rashid book looks interesting. I'd love to read it, but I think I'll struggle to find a copy in Japan.
It has been reported that one of the released UK "illegal combatants" was actually found by the US forces in a Taliban jail. That could have been for any number of reasons, like being anti-Taliban. Doesn't sound like the strongest reason in the world for holding someone in legal limbo, denied the rights to see lawyers or Red Cross and undergoing stressed interrogation for 2 years.
It's also been reported that Northern Alliance forces traded prisoners with the US for arms and money. Has anyone else heard this ? Again it's not exactly the best basis for bringing anyone to a court of law and facing trial, irrespective of whether they were active Al Qaeda or not.
The US have a big problem in deciding what to do with the Guantanamo detainees. To try them in military tribunerals without the same rights, representation, and transparency as a civil court will invite criticism for years to come. It can't easily release them back to Afghanistan as then people will ask why they were detained for so long. The principles of international law they cite as justifying the holdin of "illegal combatants" until hostilities are over mean that they effectively have to hold onto them indefinitely as the war against terrorism can never be declared as over. What a mess !
11 March 2004, 07:22 PM
#116
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BIJ - people tell me that's what Amazon.com is for...
Well (now talking to myself but in the interests of unbiased info dissemination), the following is from the UN's illicit crop monitoring report of 2002 for Afghanistan of 2002:
During the 1990s, Afghanistan firmly established itself as the largest source of illicit
opium and its derivative, heroin, in the world. By the end of the 1990s, Afghanistan
provided about 70% of global illicit opium production, well ahead of Myanmar (about
22%) and Lao PDR (about 3%). Primarily supplying countries in South West Asia,
Central Asia, East and West Europe, as well as in South Asia, the Arabian peninsula
and Africa, illicit opiates of Afghan origin were consumed by an estimated 9 million
abusers, which is two-thirds of all opiate abusers in the world. It can be estimated that,all along the trafficking chain, about half a million people have been involved in the
trade of illicit Afghan opiates in recent years. Although these numbers are only
approximate, UNODCCP also estimates that the overall turnover of illicit international
trade in Afghan opiates can be roughly estimated at US$ 25 billion annually.
An abrupt decline of illicit opium poppy cultivation was recorded in Afghanistan in 2001,
following the ban imposed by the Taliban regime in its last year in power. Despite the
existence of significant stocks of opiates accumulated during previous years of bumper
harvests, the beginning of a heroin shortage became apparent on some European
markets by the end of 2001. Furthermore, the absence of the usual harvest in
Afghanistan in spring 2001 and the subsequent depletion of stocks pushed opium
prices upwards to unprecedented levels in the country (prices increased by a factor of
10), creating a powerful incentive for farmers to plant the 2002 crop.
The power vacuum in Kabul caused by the aftermath of 11 September 2001 enabled
farmers to replant opium poppy (starting in October/November 2001). By the time the
Afghan Interim Administration was established and issued a strong ban on opium
poppy cultivation, processing, trafficking and consumption (17 January 2002), most
opium poppy fields had already started to sprout.
In February 2002, a two-week rapid assessment survey launched by UNODCCP in the
traditional opium growing areas of southern and eastern Afghanistan provided the
basic evidence to confirm the resumption of opium poppy cultivation on a large scale.
Look at the graph on p.2; striking.
Well (now talking to myself but in the interests of unbiased info dissemination), the following is from the UN's illicit crop monitoring report of 2002 for Afghanistan of 2002:
During the 1990s, Afghanistan firmly established itself as the largest source of illicit
opium and its derivative, heroin, in the world. By the end of the 1990s, Afghanistan
provided about 70% of global illicit opium production, well ahead of Myanmar (about
22%) and Lao PDR (about 3%). Primarily supplying countries in South West Asia,
Central Asia, East and West Europe, as well as in South Asia, the Arabian peninsula
and Africa, illicit opiates of Afghan origin were consumed by an estimated 9 million
abusers, which is two-thirds of all opiate abusers in the world. It can be estimated that,all along the trafficking chain, about half a million people have been involved in the
trade of illicit Afghan opiates in recent years. Although these numbers are only
approximate, UNODCCP also estimates that the overall turnover of illicit international
trade in Afghan opiates can be roughly estimated at US$ 25 billion annually.
An abrupt decline of illicit opium poppy cultivation was recorded in Afghanistan in 2001,
following the ban imposed by the Taliban regime in its last year in power. Despite the
existence of significant stocks of opiates accumulated during previous years of bumper
harvests, the beginning of a heroin shortage became apparent on some European
markets by the end of 2001. Furthermore, the absence of the usual harvest in
Afghanistan in spring 2001 and the subsequent depletion of stocks pushed opium
prices upwards to unprecedented levels in the country (prices increased by a factor of
10), creating a powerful incentive for farmers to plant the 2002 crop.
The power vacuum in Kabul caused by the aftermath of 11 September 2001 enabled
farmers to replant opium poppy (starting in October/November 2001). By the time the
Afghan Interim Administration was established and issued a strong ban on opium
poppy cultivation, processing, trafficking and consumption (17 January 2002), most
opium poppy fields had already started to sprout.
In February 2002, a two-week rapid assessment survey launched by UNODCCP in the
traditional opium growing areas of southern and eastern Afghanistan provided the
basic evidence to confirm the resumption of opium poppy cultivation on a large scale.
Look at the graph on p.2; striking.
11 March 2004, 07:49 PM
#118
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As a footnote to the *original subject* of this thread, Jack Straw stated in an interview on Channel 4 News that the reason these people have been released is *not* necessarily because they are innocent (he refused to be drawn one way or the other on that point), but because under British law there is not sufficient evidence to bring about a successful conviction.
You can reach your own conclusions about what he was saying in between the lines.
UB
You can reach your own conclusions about what he was saying in between the lines.
UB
11 March 2004, 10:33 PM
#119
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'reading between the lines', it means that Jack 'Himmler' Straw hasn't got a leg to stand on.
If the yanks had even the smallest shred of evidence linking these people to either OBL, the Taliban or Al-Qaeda, then they would still be in Guantanamo right now.
Did you hear about the Afghani taxi driver who got pulled out of his cab at a checkpoint and was slung into Guantanamo for over a year before they let him go? They had nothing on him either.
If the yanks had even the smallest shred of evidence linking these people to either OBL, the Taliban or Al-Qaeda, then they would still be in Guantanamo right now.
Did you hear about the Afghani taxi driver who got pulled out of his cab at a checkpoint and was slung into Guantanamo for over a year before they let him go? They had nothing on him either.
11 March 2004, 10:49 PM
#120
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1 thing I don't understand is why the media and Mr. Blair were really pushing to get these people home. It gives the impression to the rest of the world that we care about them and want them back. I for one, and practically everyone I know (and no I'm not part of a racist group) would rather they never came back.