AsifScoob

Andrew,

I'm not quite sure why you are over reacting and resorting to sarcasm.

You made a VERY dramatic assertion, which I asked you to clarify and you did. Its such a minor point within this thread I'm not sure what the problem is.

If it helps I used the term Palestinian in my original question as that 'seemed' to be the implication in your statement. There was no intention to infer that you were accusing all Palestinians of being terrorists, I didn't think that for a second.

As I said, you made a very dramatic assertion and I wanted you to clarify it, which you did, that was the extent of that post from me.

As far as Hamas and its intentions you state the following:

"Oh thanks for that. Israel can sleep tonight. Maybe you could dial 118500, get the number for Hamas and tell them that.
Be quick though I think they close a 6."

This implies that Israel is in mortal danger.

Previously you said:

"Hamas nor any terrorist organization have any hope of destroying Israel."

This implies that Israel is ok and always will be.

Can you tell me which one contains the sarcasm so that I may understand better?

Thanks

Asif

moses

andrew is a jew but a nice person with his own beliefs he is entitled too and he will supply us some sex toys if we want



but andrew what force u talking about in india the hindu's are the living proof of muslim tolerance otherwise each one of them would have been slayed or converted , so u following the zionist and hindu extremist stories, your own jewish people are a living proof of muslim tolerance, they saved u guys from the christians , none of u would have lived

i can go on but dont wanna talk about palestine and israel at the moment coz i turn into a demon, hamas are terrorists but less terrorists than the israeli goverment

that will be the end of my discussion on that issue
zionist programme is for christians and muslims to wipe each other out and the zionists will sit back and enjoy while their homes and idea;s will be safe]

it happened in medina in the time of the prophet and that is the plan, read books by meher kahane and other extreme zionist jews

Tedd

People go to places in the world for different reasons, and not necessarily for the reasons other people assume. Hell, I even went to Amsterdam once and it wasnt a stag party!

(Apologies, wrote this before ploughing through the other seven pages, but it was in response to Dreamweaver's comments on page one about what were they doing in Afghanistan anyway.)

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

AJM

Er, sorry m8, but we DON'T KNOW that is what these 5 believe or did - that is the point. If you say their beliefs, then are you condemning all moslems as anti-british? How do you know they don't want to be british? The conflict started after they were there (for whatever reason) and why, just because they were there, does this make them a risk to security of britain?

Same could've been said of N.Ireland a few years back, but I regularly travelled there, as thats where my folks live (well just over the border in the south but I have to go through NI to get there).

LostBoy5

' Locking someone up when they have not done anything that can be proved wrong just should not happen. Assumptions are not proof and are very dangerous to our future liberty and rights in law if acted upon in that way.'

thats exactly the attitude that cost many childrens lives in this country from vermin paedophiles

the burden of proof is way too high and should be lowered

this is the shortcomings of democracy

bring back the scaffold at whitehall

case is dismissed

Leslie

lostboy

You pasted my statement and let me say that I stand by it absolutely as a basic tenet of English law which was established over many years of hard struggle. If that is lost then the people of this country will suffer eventually at the hands of future leaders whio will treat the situation as a gift to enable them to increase their power over the people. Can you say that you could trust political leaders in the future not to use use such a watered down method of justice to further their own ends.

No one in a sane state of mind would support the freedom of a paedophile to corrupt and injure our children, but by the same token,would you think it right that an innocent man might be found guilty of such behaviour because of bias shown towards him for some personal reason by the judiciary. This is the sort of thing that is likely to happen if your ideas were accepted. It used to happen in bygone times. We must keep our legal safeguards at all costs.

Before you bring it up, it appears from the facts being disclosed that Huntley got the job at Soham because of the incompetence and lack of thought by people dealing with information about him, and the lack of application from the man who employed him. Not much to do with the law anyway.

The other points you make are nonsense, before you can dismiss a case you have to make one in the first place. You failed!

Youe extreme right wing views are your own affair, but you would be better not to let it mask your vision of the future.

Les

Quatto 'son of Quaid'

'You pasted my statement and let me say that I stand by it absolutely as a basic tenet of English law which was established over many years of hard struggle. If that is lost then the people of this country will suffer'

Hard struggle? LOL when murderers can get off with plea bargaining of manslaughter and insanity when its clear they've done the crime with intent, it just makes a mockery of our so-called great justice system. Les methinks you need to take you're head out of the sand and live in the real world..

'Youe extreme right wing views are your own affair, but you would be better not to let it mask your vision of the future.'

I don't think he's being right wing but sensible. You're softly softly approach clearly isn't working in our country. Future of britain? Bleak TBH. Unless we make it clear that CRIME DOESNT PAY. The police catch them and the law lets them off. What happened to 3 strikes and you're out? A JOKE!

LostBoy5

thank god leslie is not a lawlord or there would be twice as many paedophiles roaming the street looking for targets

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Lostboy/quaid

Guilt and punishment.

If someone is GUILTY then they should be PUNISHED. However, these days its not public flogging or hanging or 20 years hard labour. Its paltry fines, community service, tagging and a stretch in jail that is quite often a holiday camp at taxpayers expense and they're let out after doing 1/2 the time for "good behaviour".

I am 100% behind Leslie in his statement that people must be PROVED guilty beyond reasonable doubt, then sort out the punishments to actually punish and deter.

Interesting username Quatto "son of quaid" - I take it that came from the Arnie film whose name escapes me? Quatto was the leader of the rebels iirc who were fighting againsts a dictatorial and oppressive regime, where free speech and expression was not permitted and people were hunted down and imprisoned just because they dared be different or speak out.

I imagine it was the same in **** Germany, where the knock on the door could mean being dragged off, beaten up & thrown into a concentration camp just because your next-door neighbour took a disliking to you, accused you of "crimes against the state" and the gestapo came and arrested you.

I for one, do not want this happening in this country and am proud of my father and grandfathers who fought in the last war to oppose the tyrany of Hitler. They were fighting for freedom of expression and freedom from the fear of being thrown in jail for their beliefs.

I guess even the Americans must be in a quandry over this, on the one had being the "side of Freedom" and the other locking people up and denying them the same basic freedoms and rights as those they are defending.

The bottom line is of those who advocate the punishing of these 5 blokes even though they have been proved guilty of nothing, which of you would accept being punished yourself for something that you didn't do? I don't think any of you would, so why should it be different for these guys?

ajm

pssst.... Total Recall!

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

That is just sooooo embarassing!!!



<hangs head in shame>

LostBoy5

'I am 100% behind Leslie in his statement that people must be PROVED guilty beyond reasonable doubt, then sort out the punishments to actually punish and deter.'

the burden of proof is way too high to secure a conviction

the police are fighting a losing battle

thats all im saying

if puff and leslie want to live in cloud cuckoo land where they think the english legal system is so wonderful then so be it

i dont

case dismissed

Ted Maul

so andrew is a jew but a nice person eh Moses?

well you're a muslim but a nice person...to return the compliment

Brit_in_Japan

Unclebuck makes an interesting point here. Whilst I am firmly of the belief that people are innocent until proven guilty, and that what the US are doing in Guantanemo Bay absolutely violates the principles of justice, the question has to be asked about whether the justice system is equipped to deal with the types of attrocities planned by Al-Qaeda.

I think Al-Qaeda are quite knowledgeable about how intelligence systems operate. Their organisation is quite distributed, there is no rigid central control of all the disparate groups, they act more like autonomous cells. They appear to communicate in the more 'old-school', cold war manner, personal contacts, secret drop-offs etc rather than rely on telecomms or other means which can be eavesdropped. All this means that it is more difficult to get evidence on the individuals concerned.

So how can we apprehend and convict this groups when the evidence is so hard to come by ? And we would want to do this before attrocities are carried out. Sure, we could lower the threshold required to secure a conviction, but remember the "Guildford Four" and "Birmingham Six" ? Not the most glorious episode in British legal history.

Could we do away with jury trials and have an examining judge instead ?(which is the usual system in many European countries anyway). They could hold the trials in secret so more evidence from the intelligence agencies could be presented, often not possible in an open court of law. Such a system was used in Northern Ireland at the height of the troubles (the Diploc courts ?) but I'm not sure it was regarded as a perfect model of justice. The system is more vulnerable to outside political pressure.

Leslie

Thank you Puff, at least someone understands what I am saying.

Lostboy, better you don't post if you do not have the nouse to see beyond your biased beliefs.

Quatto,

One thing you should not do is take me for a soft touch, PTMW has explained exactly what I meant if you could not understand what I said. I think murderers should get the same treatment that they handed out to their victims. There is no "softly softly" about it, but they must be proved guilty first. Getting away with it by pleading manslaughter etc is down to the CPS or the courts and that is nothing to do with the law of the land. Blame the administration of the law instead.

As far as "head in the sand" is concerned, that can be more accurately applied to you unless you want to live in a police state with kangaroo courts and no recourse to true justice or appeal. That is the truth of the future if our legal safeguards go to the wall. Do you have an undying trust in politicians? Read your history and learn!

Les

LostBoy5

Leslie

try and think before typing your 'oh so wonderful judicial system' clap trap

'on the balance of probabilities' which they use in civil cases would lower the burden of proof and allow the police to convict more wrongdoers

tooooooooo many get away with it

'beyond reasonable doubt' is way too high to secure a conviction...any element of doubt can destroy a case

think you need to move into the reality of the 21st century rather than living in your pre-WW1 candle lit world and acknowledge that the legal system is a shambles and too many make a mockery of it


case dismissed.......NEXT!!!!!

moses

thanks ted u are a nice person too


andrew and i go back a long way, before i ever got involved in cew , andrew and i used to joke about, i call him my uncle isaac's son aka my cousin, aint that right andrew delvard, before i ever got involved in cew, andrew owns a sex shop and i once posted something about a japanese luv ball and how sheepishly frightened i was when the first time i went to ann summers alone i went when it was quiet and lost my bottle and ran away but i tried the next day and got a japanese luv ball and let me tell u, luv rocks , make luv not war

and andrew was doing a special on them and the mods deleted the thread coz i gave the tips how to use it properly

haha



pls mods dont delete this, we need some luv in this thread and a lil laugh


andrew u can tell ted our story mate haha

Pbr

LMAO

Jye

Aye, the case of who you are is dismissed, Popeye P1

Wondered where you got to. Popeye always ended his claptrap posts with case dismissed, next. Now we know that Popeye P1/shreck and Lostboy are 1 in the same, welcome back, lol

If you stopped posting rubbish you wont have to change your name so often, just a though.

Popeye, beyond reasonable doubt is not too high to secure a conviction in your case...

Case Proven

Next....................

Leslie

Lostboy,

There is nothing particularly wrong with our legal system. It has been a model for and admired by the rest of the world for many years. It reflects the true way of thinking of the British people and that is worth holding on to. Faults in bringing people to justice are usually those of the administrators of the system due to incompetence or worse.

The worse thing that can be done is to fiddle the system to enable more convictions, short cuts like that can lead to worse abuse of the system to the advantage of those in power. Too easy to arrange it all to get rid of someone who although innocent, is an irritation to those in control.

Your sneering and immature remarks towards me in your last post merely underline the fact that you are still incapable of presenting any kind of valid argument. In the light of those insults I have no option but to dismiss you as a bit of a case!

Les

andrew6321

lostboy

under the legal system you descrcibe, you would probably be one of the first people to be locked up. how would you feel about that?

moses

Lord Shrek

'There is nothing particularly wrong with our legal system. It has been a model for and admired by the rest of the world for many years. It reflects the true way of thinking of the British people and that is worth holding on to. Faults in bringing people to justice are usually those of the administrators of the system due to incompetence or worse.'

What planet do you live on????????

Me thinks you live in Utopia.

You do post a lot of completely out of touch nonsense on scoobynet my old mucker.

The reason we are in trouble in this country is with archaic people like yourself who refuse to acknowledge the reality of day-to-day life.

You must be part of the do-good human rights PC brigade to come out with such farsical statements.

Your views on everything share the same out-of-touch pattern.

HELLO MCFLY......WE ARE IN THE 21ST CENTURY!!!!!!!!!!!

Case Dismissed.....NEXT!!!!!!!!!!

Leslie

Lord Shrek,Lostboy, etc etc.

Thank you for pasting my statement at the beginning of your post. It just underlines it on my behalf.

Last thing I would ever be is "your old mucker".

If you had read or even understood previous posts I have made you would be well aware what I think of the PC brigade.

So far you have not managed to show us any kind of argument to support your misguided ideas. If you want to produce any kind of useful post on the subject then you have to start using your intelligence and produce real facts to back up what you say.

It is always a sign that the writer has lost the thread when he can only use inept and meaningless insults as well as ill mannered behaviour in an effort to undermine the argument in question.

Les

Geezer

In the news today, a letter from the US Embassy....

“One of the five trained with an AK-47 and pistol at an al-Qaeda safe house in Kabul in September 2001.”

The man, he said, was a “weapons-carrying fighter” at Tora Bora, the infamous stronghold where terror chief Osama Bin Laden hid from coalition forces including the SAS.

Mr McClenny continued: “This person was wounded in battle with Coalition forces and was subsequently captured in the Tora Bora mountains.

Two of the others trained for 40 days in September-October 2000 at a military camp in Afghanistan, learning to shoot a Kalashnikov, and observing hand grenade, landmine and rocket grenade demonstrations.

These two and a third returned to Afghanistan shortly after September 11 2001 to fight jihad with the Taliban.

They lived in caves for several weeks and were issued Kalashnikovs and ammunition.

They stayed with their unit, commanded by a known Taliban leader, for three weeks and were captured near Konduz.”


Makes interesting reading.

Geezer

andrew6321

so how come they got away...?

I thought the yanks sent all the taliban they captured to guantanamo?

Geezer

They did, this is talking about British people captured by the US and sent to Guantanamo.

The very same people who protest their innocence.

Geezer

andrew6321

sorry - ignore my last post - I got my wires completely crossed. I thought we were talking about those spanish guys....

on the other hand...if the US had this evidence against them, you have to ask why would they have been released?

Leslie

I agree with Andrew Geezer. If all that is true and corroborated evidence, I can't understand why the Americans released them let alone our own authorities.

Les

Geezer

I think it was probably a mix of giving some ground to one of the few allies who supported the US led war, and them considering that they weren't that much of a rsik compared to some of the others held. There are a few camps at Guantanamo, and prisoners are held in each according to the security rating given them by the US forces.

Thses will have been in the least secure, whereas in camp x-ray, I believe that the prisoners are the type that despite their 2 year incarceration still spout anti-western vitriole, and would immediately seek to cause harm the second they were released.

Geezer