andrew6321

geezer - that doesn't make sense mate. these people were either combatants - or they weren't. and either there is evidence to prove that - or there isn't.

if the yanks had anything on these people, they would still be in guantanamo - with the UK government's blessing.

this just sounds like a US spoiler tactic to keep us all worried.

unclebuck

Geezer, well spotted. At least we now have some evidence rather than mere idle speculation. I believe that their release was probably a combination of diplomatic politics and the fact that these people are relatively junior and inexperienced combatants, and of minor importance.

Remember Jack Straw said of these people that they were not necessarily innocent but that under current UK law there was not sufficient evidence to secure a conviction. Hence, they have to be released. In the light of this I can see why it is of the utmost importance to bring the proposed ‘terror courts’ into being at the earliest opportunity.

unclebuck

Now we know who to blame too. Good old Tony Blair, thanks for that then mate.

unclebuck

And there's more (at the risk of being accused of 'cut n' paste'):

Yet another shocking disgrace.

UB

unclebuck

Oh and as for the ‘human rights’ lawyers that represent these people. Well they’re either wriggling like worms on a hook, or they gone to ground:

Geezer

Well, I can see what you're saying, but also look at it this way, we took several hundred thousand German POWs in WWII, but the majority of them were released during 1946/47, because although they were fighting against us (and some of them remember were SS, not just conscripts) they were no longer a threat. The real bad boys stayed in prison for ever, were executed or freed only a very long time after.

Geezer

moses

geezer mate as i said before these guys were their long time before the usa and brits, they were their fighting the northern alliance, they were worse than taliban when it came to atrocities


and as luan said, if these guys did fight against the usa, or british soldiers, did u expect they to stand their and be shot at or defend their life

u tell me

Sbradley

That's true enough, and perfectly reasonable as well.

But unless I'm much mistaken, these four are British nationals, right?

Any British nationals (or indeed nationals of other allied nations) who took up arms against us during WWII and were then captured were tried for treason and, if found guilty, executed.

SB

Geezer

Oh absolutely, I'm just trying to illustrate why they might have been set free. I don't think they should have been!

Moses, they may have been fighting the Taliban, but seeing as they were known to have been trained by Al Qaeda, and that the Taliban were harbouring OBL and allowed Al Qaeda to run camps in Afghanistan, that does seem a bit unlikely.

Any sensible person, who was there for a good reason, would have got out of the country before the war started, if they realised that their own troops were going to be involved, IMO.

Geezer

greasemonkey

Very true. However, much has changed over the last 50-odd years. The media gains far closer access to everything, and I think the key in this case is that most British people don't see what happened in Afghanistan (and the wider War on Terror) as "our" war, in the sense that WW1 and WW2 were, and indeed in the way the people of the USA tend to view it.

If these people had been dropping bombs on Manchester instead of p*ssing off to Afghanistan, I think the reaction to their capture here would have been slightly different, as indeed it would have been if it had been the City of London instead of the World Trade Center attacked.

As it stands though, the simple fact is that the five who've been released claim that their presence in Afghanistan was "legitimate". IMO that claim should have been put to the test in a court of law, letting them out onto the streets with a caveat that "we think they're guilty, but can't prove it" is a situation that satisfies nobody.

andrew6321

sadly, most people here seem very keen to accept the American 'letter' as fact as a way of supporting their own view of these supposed UK Taliban combatants. I haven't even seen the letter...has anyone seen it?

Why do you believe it? Remember, the people who are telling you that these guys are guilty are the same people that told you the names of the 19 hijackers on 9/11. And most of that turned out to be bollox as well....

Its such a shame that most people here are happy to have their minds made up for them.

moses

geezer taliban harboured osama of course theywould he helped them against the russians


and we harbour the national front and usa harbours bush should we do something about that and their are plent of other countries

these men were their fighting against other enemies like the northern alliance and we dont know if they were trained by osama or not but they had the right to be their to protect afghans against tajiks and uzbeks


their are alot of white mercenaries in african countries fighting against opposition and many of them are ex para's and soldiers from the uk if tomorrow britain went to war against an africanstate and managed to grab these people would they be treated the same as the black and coloured brits

moses

by the way america and british soldiers shouldnt have been their either

as someof u know taliban said they will hand osama to a 3rd country if the usa and british gave them proof and we know the proof bush and blair had for the weapons in iraq and the usa didnt listen and to get one man osama and to avenge over 2000 innocent people of the twin towers they killed thousands and thousands of innocents and soldiers that were defending their country who had nothing to do with osama but a right as a patriot as we do to defend our land scotland or in your case england


just for one man , let the blood of the innocents pour, already poverty struck

osama is bad and i agree they needed to get him but as im saying taliban said show us the proof and we will hand him to a 3rd country i think they prefer china more than the muslim countries for some reason lol see what i mean muslim leaders are cowards maybe thats why taliban wanted to hand osama to china.


so if the usa and british soldiers had the right to go their these boys were their before had the right too to defend their brethren against tajik and uzbeks and also the usa proxys like dostum commited war crimes far greater than the twin towers during the u.s led war against osama and the taliban

moses

i worship only God and lol

bravo how long have we talked on the chat been a few yrs, never once have i talked about politics in chat with u or anyone its always how woman taste so nice and other stuff


taliban were bad real bad but where am i defending them pls do tell the northern alliance were worse u wouldnt know that u sit in the uk and watch what the western news tells u.


thats like me saying u worship bush, sharon and blair, no i know u dont u reason , thats what im doing im reasoning and giving u the other side, these men were their thinking their defending islam from bad muslims like the northern alliance and alot of youngsters used to go their to study too.


i think taliban would have handed him over to save their own *** but only to a 3rd country who will be fair in their case china was more fair than the c;unt muslim leaders

its 2 sides to the coin, i think u know that

moses

mullah omar his daughter is married to osama and he saved mullahs *** as a friend during the russian war, i dont think u will betray your friend would u

yeah bravo but it seems all the time u think im defending others when im not, i defend palestinians thats for sure and resistance


but not ob and taliban and trust me taliban were less vicious than the northern alliance, what u see is now under the usa their trying to behave but their still butchers



lets end here its going round and round

unclebuck

As I recall many of the Taliban weren't even Afghans. They were are sort of disperate gang of foreign 'tourists' made up of people from all over - Pakistan, Algeria, Egypt, Yeman, Britain - hell there was even an American found amongst them.

Apart from the general repression and torture of the Afghan people as a whole there was the banning of education for females, banning of all music and dance, destruction of world heritage buhdist monuments, torture of zoo animals, the list goes on.

If you have any doubt's about what life was like under the Taliban regime watch undercover the documentaries made by Saira Shah. They give you a real flavour of just what life was like in Afghanistan when they were in power. Really frightening.

The Northern Allience don't do any of those things.

UB

moses

yeah that same saira shah apologised and said northern alliance were just as bad i watched that programme


and lol taliban are afghans u muppet that was so funny, their pushtuns and minority of them were their students from other countries and veteran warlords

moses

and by the way if i can swear

taliban is the b@stard and love child of usa, saudi, british and pakistani

well the parents have to look after the baby or the baby grows up to be a psycho

unclebuck

That was the second programme mate. The one when she went back to find the little girls that had seen their mother murdered by the Taliban. The first one she did is the one I'm talking about. When she had to be smuggled across the border at night from Pakistan. Did you see that one?

UB

moses

yeah that was a horrid one but why u telling me i aint supporting the taliban


i support none of them northern or taliban, why call one a baddie coa the other is a proxy, usa work that way dont they

as their b@stard child saddam occupied kuwait they didnt mind and told their lil puppy to draw back but they didnt mind at all and also rumseld went their to iraq and even shook hands with the man , the photo's were everywhere and then they the usa asked kuwaiti actors to pretend about the atrocities saddam commited, it was all over the news and exposed that usa made the kuwaitis train some actors as people who have been abused by the iraqi forces


u can even find it in michael moores site if u can do a search on it or even email him

Geezer

Moses, you live in Scotland! You are no nearer the truth than we are! You cannot (nor can we admittedly) get a really true picture of what life was like unless we lived it.

However, institutions like Amnesty international don't appear to have any axe to grind, nor the Red Cross, and they paint a very brutal picture of life in Afghanistan and Iraq, but not in other Arab countries, or indeed the west, so that must tell you something!

Geezer

moses

i do know im a muslim i know how they feel

the muslim ummah is like a body if the hand gets hurt the whole body feels it , thats how i feel anyway but i also feel the same for humanity but decent people only

and the only bush i luv is the shaven bush woman have neat and tidy


and of course amnesty say alot about u.s policy and palestine, no one listens to them and also about chechyna and our mr blair will turn a blind eye to it

and geezer one more thing mate, u know blair would send our boys to war but his boy is an adult now he will never send his own boy to war or neither do alot of other mp's and including the congressmen in the usa , dont u see the games they play

brother we are slaves and we dont see it, invisible slaves lead by our desire to be enslaved by the media, 0% interest, buy now pay later etc

were on strings, we are cattle to be lead to the slaughter for the minority of men who rule this world

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

moses

forgive me for saying this m8, but amongst all the cr@p you post, you do have some good and valid points - not that I ever doubted it. trouble is finding them...

lose all the flowery stuff and more people will understand what the heck you're talking about and your real pov's. there is just so much extra rubbish that no wonder people have a hard time of understanding exactly what it is you're trying to say, leading to misinterpretation and BS further along the line

being a weegie probably doesn't help when people meet you either but I'm sure you're more concise in a verbal situation, just try and be the same on a thread

cheers

puff

moses

lol i dont know if that is a compliment or its an insult but its funny

mate what did u mean


pls explain, i think i understand but im confused



chelle has met me , your fellow mod we spent a few hrs together, on the track, with crypt and lunch ,ask her what im like i aint mad

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

B20

Gone (I think the right one)