moses

lynne see thats what i mean, u dont see it anymore do u, u can tolerate the rest

lynne, we go back a long way in chat etc and i never was ever racist to anyone, i was always talking about funny things and sexual things with the rest of the boys and gals and u know i never preached hatred or said anything to anyone


here u are condemning me alone

u remember lynne once someone said something to me and i told them im a scot 100% and im sure u can recall coz it was someone close to u and they said to me

a horse doesnt become a man if he stays in a house and they said if u moses lives in a stable do u become a horse

i found it very hurting and insulting, its people like those evil b@stards who create bitterness in my heart , scotland is my life and i will give my life for it but when that person who was so close to u had said that to me, i felt like killing them and still i forgive the person


u know who im talking about, i have witness;s if u want to deny it lynne, marco was their, deadscoob was their and so were alot of others, i was called a immigrant and not a scotsman and i was told me being from asian background i will never be a brit, i aint a brit im A SCOT nothing will ever change it only over my enemies dead bodies


this is the same lynne condemning me once again

Redkop

moses *sigh* its not singling you out - but you have to admit you just won't let up - you just have to respond to everything and everyone, why don't you, as requested just use the RTM button and let Moderators deal with it........ At the moment you are your own worst enemy and you just can't see it

moses

maybe i am my own worst enemy its coz its an injustice, i get sick of being picked on all the time all coz i answer back and reply to queries or do u prefer i change my name and then say things

i will stop here but im not happy at all lynne, and that person i did speak about a post before yours, should have been ashamed before she ever opened her mouth and hurt me my calling me that in the past, i hope u pass on the message to her, i did forgive her at the time for marcos sake but when these things happen my blood boils coz i know someone cant be just if they have feelings like that themselves

i will end here

Redkop

moses - your blood seems to be at boiling point all the time lately by the amount of times you have said that the last week. I have tried asking you to refrain from doing things and you say sorry, then you forget saying it, as you carry on as before. If you want to accuse others of attacking you and insulting what you believe in - contact them by email or pm.

I have just seen how much work you have caused for Puff this afternoon, that's not being fair - is it? And you wonder why people get fed up, I am very disappointed in you moses to say the least

moses

im disappointed in some too lynne, but i will keep it till their

and sorry to puff but i alread pm;d him

unclebuck

Do you think if we strapped as kettle to moses head we could boil some water? We could all have a nice cup of tea then.

UB

Suresh

LOL
A cup of chai would really hit the spot right now!!

moses

lol im having a chai and some hot cross buns

AsifScoob

Suresh, thanks.

A couple of points: I dont like the word 'moderate'. I am a normal common sensical kind of bloke - always have been and senility aside, always will be. I dont like labels. I admit I am a little sensitive to these sorts of things right now, but do take your point.

Also, I do not believe that you are being tarred with the same brush when you are crossing borders (please refer to other thread where you detailed what happened to you), both Uncle Buck and I gave our accounts of foreign travel that would seem to confound that point.

Thanks also for responding to my dodgy analogy, to take it a bit further, how would you feel if the aforementioned mass murdering Father was on the run, and you had no idea where he was, plus had genuinely no involvement in what he did. Do you think it right for society in general to somehow blame you simply through association? "You're his son, you must know where he is etc", "You're protecting him" etc etc.

Anyway, dodgy analogies aside, the point is clear, to which you appear to agree, but be nice if you clarified.

"You are right that everyone *is* indeed being tarred with the same brush"

Do you think that this is wrong? Do you think in the SPECIFIC case of Al Q that it is right for an entire religon to be tarred? Or do you think it is acceptable in ANY situation? Eg IRA and Catholics? ETA and Basque people?

If you say that it is wrong to tarr people in the way that I have described, then we agree with each other whole heartedly and end of discussion. If you say that it is acceptable to tarr people then I hope you show some consistency when judging the basis of other terror groups.

Asif

AsifScoob

Hope I haven't missed out!

Milk with one lump please!

moses

with malai or without malai maybe some dal chini or spices and rusks

AsifScoob

LOL!

Chocolate digestive would be spot on. I'm afraid I prefer my tea English style Moses, dont like too many spices in it mate!

But lets not stray off topic too much, although a tea break would seem appropriate.

Asif

moses

sure bros , i like both asian and english tea and i do like my cardomoms

AsifScoob

LOL!

Suresh

Asif,

Sorry for the 'moderate' tag. Let's reserve that one for Puff and co then and at the same time perhaps take of our hats to them as they have been ahem... a little busy today. .

As you point out your analogy was dodgy to start of with and is now heading downhill like Hermann Meier on his way to a world cup win! I know what you are trying to say about guilt by association being wrong (not disagreeing), but it is not that simple to be honest. My point is that as guests in another culture, you (this means me too) need to make some efforts not only to integrate but also to contribute and enrich your adopted culture. Bringing all your cultural baggage with you and demanding apartheid does not work. I know that traditional members of the community may forbid mixed marriages etc. and prefer to live in an ethnic 'ghetto', but the fact is you /we need to integrate not only to survive and thrive on foreign terms, but we also have a duty to contribute to our adopted cultures - especially the bloody cuisine!

I ask one simple question and really would like an honest answer. As a British muslim (assuming you are) do you consider yourself British (or Scottish) first and foremost or Muslim first and foremost? Whilst neither is usually mutually exclusive, I think that at times of stress or conflict that they might actually be so. Just my opinion, though.....

Despite my slightly dodgy skin tone, I consider myself British first and then slightly sadly, European second.


Suresh

AsifScoob

Suresh,

The answer is in the question mate ie 'British Muslim'. I couldn't deny being British even if I wanted to. I think I always will be, and I am kind of proud of that too. In addition, I was born a Muslim, by virtue of my parents being Muslim and have been brought up that way too.

I dont see any conflict as both of those 'descriptions' happily 'allow' the other. Please ask if you need further clarification on what I'm on about!

If it helps any further, I have lots of British friends, both indigineous of all types and immigrants or children of immigrants, all of whom say nothing but nice things about me. Further, quite a few of my English friends have expressed that I am just as 'English' as they are. (This is meant as a compliment to me and not to be derided by any Scots, Welsh or Irish here thanks!)

I would say that due to my upbringing, I have an awful lot of traditional sub continental values too, which funnily enough, with Empire and all, are very compatible with traditional values in this country.

Does this answer your question? I could go on considerably further? (and will do if you require)

Now, please would you answer my question from my previous post as it would really help me understand where you are coming from:



Thanks

Asif

Suresh

Asif,

There is no doubt in my mind that you are a well-educated and decent chap, as that is how you come across. I think you have answered my question creatively if not exactly in the binary sense it was intended.

In answer to yours : I do not think it is acceptable to tar entire ethnic or religious minority groups with the same brush, but whether we like it or not, it has, does and will happen.

The prejudice introduced by a terrorist act therefore becomes a problem for the minority group. The question to ask is what can said religious or ethnic groups do about it? Sticking their heads in the sand certainly doesn't alleviate the problem of prejudice. As I said earlier, the group needs to distance itself from the actions of the non-representitive extremists and do what is necessary to stop them. A response of silence is not going to achieve this.

In the country I live in, right wing, but still mainstream politicians are now suggesting that islamic fundamentalists be held without charge and mosques supporting them closed down. Given the recent attacks on innocents in Spain and fear of further attacks, there isn't too much disagreement with this sentiment at the moment.........


Suresh

AsifScoob

Hi Suresh,

Sorry for the delay in my response.

In answer to your question British first and then Muslim.

I thought I made this clear in the first part of my reply, apologies, I hope this is clearer now.

I do think the answer requires much more detail than that, but in the interests of keeping it 'binary' then there you go.

To further answer your other points, I dont think it should become a problem for the minority groups. I think it is incumbent on EVERY citizen and member of the community to take whatever responsible action is neccessary to safeguard against terrorism and all forms of crime.

I dont know which country you live in, or any details of the matters you refer to, but here in the UK there have been representatives of the Muslim community in the press, condemning all acts of terror etc. As I said in an earlier post, I will happily do so for any media organisation that wants my opinion. And I think the vast majority of the Muslim community would do the same.

If where ever it is that you live they want to close mosques that are PROVEN to support terrorists, I say yes, they should do that, if nothing else this is a flagrant anti islamic act. The local islamic community may not like it at first, but they will understand and agree with it. If they want to detain people who they suspect of terrorism, they should do so. They should question them thoroughly and go through a formal process, then either charge them or release them (and i'm not talking about within two years!).

If however, they simply want to arrest any old bloke with a beard strolling out of a mosque one afternoon, then intern him indefinately until the 'war' is won I disagree.

What people dont realise is that reactionary measures such as these play into the hands of the terrorists. OBL and his friends, who are hiding somewhere, couldn't be happier that people all over the world are reacting to what he has done. Reactionary measures may do more harm then good and actually create sympathy for him, amongst the 'accused' minority communities.

There are those elements that support the terrorists anyway I am sure. But look at the case of the guys just come back from Cuba. Their families had no idea where they were or what they were upto, whether they were involved in terrorism or not.

You mention prejudice, I would go so far as to say, that those people that are so inclined, will ALWAYS be prejudiced and look for excuses to express their prejudice. This is another factor that OBL knows can help his cause. As I said reacting to terrorism in this manner is playing into their hands.

To sum up, if the right wingers, or whoever, in your country want to do things that you feel are wrong, as you've stated, shouldn't you be challenging that?

Regards

Asif