Luan Pra bang

You can say what you want about Hamas without them Palestine would have been obliterated by now. They feed the starving people and pay for medical treatment. Its not like any western country has helped in the fight against the Israeli efforts to kill every Muslim in the area. The Zionists have been trying to murder people since they first invaded. The Palestinians have been under the cosh for years with western countries helping only Israelis so without Hamas to make a fight out of it they would have just been pushed slowly off the map and made to disappear for ever. I have met literally hundreds of Israelis and had them tell me how Israel is going to destroy all the Arab countries in the middle east which makes it quite clear to me that while Israel is on top there won't be any attempts by them to try to make peace.
There is a myth that the Israelis might actually consider withdrawing from the occupied territories the thousands of settlers there disagree and new homes are built there all the time. So there is no hope until Israel is forced to leave. That's why the Israeli government tries so hard to inflame the situation so much they need to justify their action and settlements. You can say what you want but no Arab group goes around schools in England spouting anti Israeli propaganda yet the friends of Israel do exactly that they are allowed to go into schools and tell children how great Israel is and how evil Arabs and Muslims are . Shows where government opinion really lies doesn't it.

moses

nice one luan , so right mate


these sharonites people forget what he and people like him say

all u need to go to is the TEMPLE MOUNT website and see the sh1te they tell and spew, but over their dead bodies

ozzy

At the end of the day, both sides are in the wrong as far as I'm concerned. You could argue that both sides have just causes, but tit-for-tat killings failed in Ireland for 30-yrs and failed in the Balkans.

These types of killings just re-inforce each sides anger and belief that the other is evil. The only time these types of conflicts settle down is when one side overpowers the other and fully occupies their territory. Then it just get pushed underground, before exploding years (or generations) later. It certainly goes no way to resolve the underlying issues.

Just look at Kosovo. The UN helped stop the main conflict and brought some peace back to the region, but it did nothing to target the sheer hatred each side has for each other. Likewise in Ireland, it'll take at least another few generations to overcome the resentment, bitterness and hatred.

The people you have to blame are each sides brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, etc.. If you took some Palestinian kid at an early age and had them adopted by an Israeli family, I doubt that kid would grow up hating them and wanting to kill every Israeli - and vice versa.

The problems start when their family and surroundings fill their heads with propeganda. They may read the history books later in life and come up with their own resentments, but the fact that they've spent their young lives looking at the "other side" would in fact give them a better understanding and I very much doubt (or hope) that, although they may feel angry, it wouldn't lead to killing.

That's simply not practical or realistic, but it illustrates how the hatred is generated in every culture. I grew up in Central Scotland where there were always conflicts between Catholic and Protestant kids. Luckily, I had parents and friends from both sides and it was never an issue (or even discussed). In fact the only time we were segregated from each other was at school, so that says a lot about Scotland

People unwilling to accept the other sides point of view or even show compassion will never learn anything. Both sides have to take off their blinkers before they can seriously live together.

I can see these types of conversations happening in another thousand years

Stefan

Dracoro

Separation breeds prejudice and prejudice breeds more separation and therin lies the problem.

Lord Shrek

'You can say what you want but no Arab group goes around schools in England spouting anti Israeli propaganda'

there is plenty in the uk who go around spouting anti-west propaganda

the pot calling the kettle black me thinks

complete double standards

if arabs/muslims wish the west to sympathise then why do this?????????????

Luan Pra bang

There are a few anti western nutters in the UK but the vast majority of mosques won't tolerate there behaviour and neither do the government. The friends of Israel are allowed into British schools to spread anti Muslim and Arab propaganda. How can this be right why do the government allow this ? Imagine the outcry if a Palestinian group were allowed into a British school to tell children how evil Israel is and how Palestine is at the mercy of fundamentalists desire to wipe them off the face of the planet. At least if the Palestinians did say such things to school children it would be true which is more than the friends of Israel can say.

Lord Shrek

'the vast majority of mosques won't tolerate there behaviour and neither do the government.'

which planet do you come from?

there is no public condemnation of the islamic extremists from muslims in this country

if you call Moses a moderate muslim then my point is proven

Katana

Edited. You're not worth my time.

Lord Shrek

thank god for that katana

Soapy Sam

Sharon should never have kissed Dennis like that.....

Pbr

Ted Maul

drive them into the sea eh luan?

Pbr

It's precisely this kind of ill-informed comment that discredits this forum and threads like this. I have serious problems believing you when you say you've met "literally hundreds of Israelis" but hey, whatever you say. Were they all foaming at the mouth? Did they explain exactly how Israel was going to "destroy all the Arab countries"? And how did they gain access to such sensitive strategic information?

But you believed them anyway. Oh dear.

That website is hardly representative of a cross section of Israeli opinion Moses. Would you like it if I copied and pasted some of the rhetoric from extremist Islamic websites and then used that to smear all Arabs.This is not true Shrek, 99% of Muslims in the UK want nothing to do with the likes of Abu Hamza and it's only because the minority that support him shout the loudest that some people may have been hoodwinked into believing otherwise.

moses

well pbr u are wrong, zionists want muslims and christians dead and want to rule the world, minority of them rule the usa dont they, americans suffer and their children get killed and deprived and suffer poverty in the usa while the zionists are the lawmakers and cream it all and made the usa an enemy to the muslim world


and ted yeah the SEA im sure the zionists can swim and besides usa will have boats their for them

Luan Pra bang

Ted maul I can see your point it does sound a bit fundamentalist but the attitude of Isreal really does **** me right off and the fact that no government in the west willl ever do anything about what they do pisses me of even more.

Pbr

And then they brainwash their kids with anti-Semitic poison, strap explosives to them and blow them to bits.

Heros, eh?

moses

http://www.hoffman-info.com/palestine56.html

dont worry bros as prophet eesa said ( jesus) live by the sword u will die by the sword, israeli zionist pigs not got long they will die by the sword


im off

zionists are very loving people

-----------
Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

--------------

moses

pbr palestinian children are heros unlike the scum in the f-16 and apache helicopters, compared to them the palestinians are real hero's


why not if zionists can preach hatred to their own children and treat palestinians as animals , what right does it give u to condemn palestinians teaching the same to their own kids

hmm u want them to luv the people who are butchering their bros and sisters and parents, no chance

hatred begets hatred its the law of this earth


Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).

ozzy

9-11 was a major event with thousands killed in a single moment, but I fear the worst has yet to come. If I were a terrorist and looking for another major event, then I fear it would have to involve some nuclear device. If those starting kicking off how is Bush going to fight back? Is he going to start nuc'ing every country that has some link with a terrorist group?

Stefan

Luan Pra bang

I think you need to step back there, how ill-informed is my comment ?I have met large numbers of Israelis as has anyone who has spent a lot of time traveling accross south america and south east asia. The rudeness and bad attitude of lots of Israeli people is a common topic of conversation for travelers and locals alike. Many of these people thinking, I was israeli as well have spouted anti arab and anti islamic rhetoric and wether they can rule the middle east is irrelevant to the fact that many Israeli men have told me directly that they want to see all arabs dead. This doesn't detract from the 4 couples I met who seemed to have a much more balanced view of the world or the stunningly beautiful Israeli women of which there are hundreds but looking like a Jew has given me a good oppurtunity to get some good first hand views of how many Isrealis think.

moses

today im in a fecked up mood , dont care u call me an extremist today


no evil rabbi or israeli official should be spared

Pbr

This is the standard argument against the Jews that goes back to The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a pamphlet that was published in Tsarist Russia 100 years ago. It is paranoid nonsense but I'm not going to get into an argument with you about it Moses as we will just go round in circles.

You say that a minority of them rule the USA and yes I agree the pro-Israeli lobby has done enormous damage to American foreign policy in the region for fifty years. The tragedy is that the most senior figures in the US government realised this at the time Israel was created and, indeed, they opposed it's creation. The US State Dapartment and the Defence Department were both opposed to the creation of Israel, as was the US oil industry. All belived that, to quote Forrestal, the Defence Secretary, "no group in this country should be permitted to influence our policy to the point where it could endanger our national security."

How right he was.

President Truman overruled them, believing he needed the Jewish vote to win the 1948 election. Every president since then has had to bow to the Jewish lobby, and look what happened to the only one that stood up to them, George Bush senior, in the 1992 election.

moses

bravo im in the ss mate my own scottish militia u can join if u wish


and pbr i agree with the last 2 paragraphs but what i said is right, gentiles arent a **** worth to the zionists, they use them as proxys to wipe each other out, mahatir was right in his last few speeches

Pbr

WTF? Is this a serious post? So because you've spoken to "many Israeli men" and they've told you all this, you're now going to judge Israel and all the Israeli people by what this handful have said? If you spoke to some Irish people who expressed support for the IRA would you then go on to say Ireland was a terrorist state and the Irish people terrorists? No, I didn't think so. So what the hell gives you the right to do the same to Israelis and Israel?

Lord Shrek

please explain exactly what palestine has got to do with you Moses....or is it the whole 'attack one muslim and you attack all muslims' archaic rubbish

do i froth at the mouth when a christian is killed in pakistan?

fanaticism spelt with a capital F

very dangerous

moses

shrek dont muslims get killed in the uk


i dont like wasting my time with u anyway u are a troll

, bravo easyjet flights u can fly up for 14.00 a time for the board meetings , u get all the privelages and medals if u join up and massive discounts on tuning and other stuff



not jews but zionist jews and israel is full of them and u cant compare the occupied against the occupier, they have every right to resist not the other way round

Luan Pra bang

PBR I also commented on some people I met who diddn't share this view I'm sure there are many moderate peace loving Israelis but an overwhelming majority I have met are not very nice people with no manners and fundamentalist views. I have never said I judged all Israelis this way just that the crossection I have met generally had this attitude which in my opinion is why the government there will never aim for peace.