Jye

Well I suppose it is a defeatist attitude, but as far as our government and penal system are concerned, well they do seem to have given up, by this I mean they have given up on the all the decent generally law abiding folk. Paying more tax wont change this, judges and politicians no longer live in the real world (if they ever did) so it wouldn’t matter how much money was available, the problem is here to stay.

Politicians are all the same, they’re out for number one so why shouldn’t we be. I can’t solve the problems of the UK m8, that’s what the politicians are supposedly for, but they seem to have lost the plot, awarding themselves wage rises supposedly designed to attract a better class of applicant, lol what a load of crap that is. So as this is the real world were talking about, and not some fantasy island utopian dream, then I take more of a vigilante approach to all those things that our great leaders expect us to do but pay lip service to themselves.

My friends and family are number one in my book and therefore I’m not waiting around for some half arsed self interested lying toad of politician or government to make things better for us.

Jye

So out of touch as to be a comment worthy of a politician. Dream on imlach.

ProperCharlie

ok, there are always going to be exceptions. i mean, you could look at a city law firm and i expect everyone except the girl who answers the 'phones would be earning over £50k. micro$oft obviously don't package and distribute their own products, if that statictic is true.

and btw - they aren't doing ok as the EU has just f**ked them up the *rse.

imlach

Err....what exactly is out of touch?

Jye

Well I dont earn £40K a year, nor does my boss or even her boss. Oh, thats right I forgot we all work in the voluntary sector helping all the 'scum' that you detest and therefore we dont aspire to earn loads of cash. Overall earnings and tax have no correlation to the effect tax has on low income families. Tax hits the poorest people first, even paying a TV licence (which imo is a tax by any other name) can mean eating well or going without. But then you probably dont think poor people should watch TV while they are eating their beans and toast. Its pretty obvious that when you dont earn £40K a year and live in a nice house then the tax burden this govenment has foisted on people does hurt.

Since 1997 Labour have increased taxes 60 times. In two terms of government they have caused annual taxes to increase by at least £5K per household. It wouldn't be so bad if they had used any of this money to bring about real reform and improvements in public services. But they haven't. We can’t even equip our military ffs.

Keep paying all these taxes without a murmur of discontent then imlach, you can obviously afford to.

(edited to say this is my last post on this subject as we are obvioulsy too far apart on the social spectrum to make it worthwile debating any further)

imlach

I pay more tax than I ever have done. However, I live within my means. I always have done, which is why at one stage in my life, I didn't have a car, nor a house, nor a tv, nor a lot of things. I now earn a bit more which allows me some of those things.

You work in the mental health sector. How you think I assume these people are scum is beyond me. Scum are low-life cheating, defrauding, taking everyone for a ride types. Nothing to do with their health (usually).

If you are so poor that a tv licence is preventing you from buying food, then your priorities should not lie with a television.

imlach

Err...and you know this how?
I don't currently have a job. Go figure

..and even although I've paid NI & tax for decades, I won't get to claim ANYTHING. See, works both ways.

Jye

I'm pretty sure you wouldnt have said that £40K is attainable by all if you were not in the high income bracket at some time or aspiring to be in it soon.

GL with your Jobseeking. On yer bike as they say

imlach

You are misquoting me. I said £30-40k. I know plenty of cops, and some nurses who are on 30k+.

Jye

That’s right imlach; if poor then you should have no TV. It is only right that the BBC retains its government sponsored monopoly while squandering billions on arty farty crap and digital TV that isn’t even covered by the licence fee that no one even cares about anyhow, all this while fining and jailing single mothers etc. Poor people should just be thankful for the clothes on their back and the fact that entertainment can still be had by whistling and clapping their hands to keep warm.

Jye

BTW cops start on about £17K iirc and many receive family tax credit. You must move in high circles to know cops earning this

Oh and I dont know any nurse that earn £30K, but then I'm talking about nurses, not ward sisters etc.

While on the subject, I know plenty of overpaid useless NHS managers, but then thats a different story.

Thought I should say, I work in a multi-faceted mental health project. We work with the unemployed, single parents, new deal, TFW, Skillseeker, mental health, learning disability, drug and alcohol dependant, head injuries, physical disabilities, in fact just about everyone who doesnt have the ability to earn £40K pa atm.

NACRO

I haven't bothered to read the whole thread but saw a few allusions to jye's own tax evading ways.

I wonder if he'd care to justify his council tax evasion or perhaps he's started paying his fair share now?

MooseRacer

Jye - you're a perfect example of someone complaining about how poor this country has become, and yet you advocate contributing to that social decay.

To follow you're logic, everyone should avoid paying taxes. We'd have a great country then, wouldn't we?

I assume you believe someone should pay tax, just not you?

Jye

Mooseracer I pay plenty of taxes, more than enough. I dont advocate paying no tax, where did I say that? Its just we pay too much tax and if you dont think that we do then you must be blind or stupidly rich. NL continues to tax this country to death without any benefit. If you are they type of person to blindly follow every piece of legislation and tax (penalties?) that NL bring in then feel free to vote for them again. Tax and spend? Not at my expence. You can do what you like, I have a mind and a will of my own.

NACRO I wont start now. Never did get that chap at the door btw Perhaps soon it will be income based then I will be happy.

imlach

Err...no, plain ordinary 30 year old constable I know was on 32k IIRC.

No, YOU are talking about people at the start of their profession quite clearly. My wife is a nurse in the NHS, so I should know what the salaries are A ward sister is still a nurse in my book.

Yes, and how exactly are projects like yours funded, eh?

MooseRacer

Ok Jye, so should we all simply pick and choose which taxes we pay? Or again is that a privilege that should somehow be reserved for a 'special' few?

Jye

Yeah these will be at the top of the scale no doubt, and after how many years working? If nurses are so well paid why do they all naff off to the states and BUPA etc

The project is funded mainly by charity, the govenment is pulling out after bleeding us dry for 5 years, TFW is going as is New Deal. They have told us to mainstream it, lol.

FWIW we got £32,000 pa in total from the government, not even enough to pay that wage you go on about

MooseRacer

Interesting - the same is happening here, I'd assumed it was a local thing. Amazed this has been kept so quiet.

Jye

MooseRacer and why not? Why pay for crappy or non existent services? If they start making taxation fair for all then I'll run up the flags np. If the sheep like populace of the UK started acting more like the French for instance then this country would be a better place imo, but while we all accept that NL's taxation policy isn’t working while advocating the blind acceptance and payment of tax as something we cannot avoid then we are only giving the green light to yet another tax and spend government.

Yeah MooseRacer, the govenment only used TFW to massage the unemployment figures anyhow. I see plenty of povery on a daily basis, and have done for the past 15 years in this job. Another or more tax wont change anything, we should all wake up.

And NACRO, please dont send private messages to me, especially when you have yours turned off. I 'can' read whats on here btw. And lets not go into the 'law abiding' bit, I wouldnt want to touch base on your disregard for car insurance claims, oh and your tendancy to commit random acts of violent assault. Not that I believe anything a troll like yourself ever says, lol

MooseRacer

Simple - Anarchy.

Good, you're hinting you have a solution, rather than being one of the usual types who complain about everything, but have no idea as to an alternative solution. So, what do you suggest would be a fair taxation system? you know, one that would make you want to run up the flags

Jye

Perhaps some anarchy in the UK would be good

As for solutions, well there is talk of making council tax income based. That would be a start.

Redkop

And you would pay it then - eh?

Jye, answer this truthfully..... if you fell over and broke your leg/arm badly because your local council failed to maintain a footpath.... would you claim from them, knowing that you hadn't contributed any council tax?

Brit_in_Japan

The tax system in this country is progressive, the more you earn, the greater percentage you pay. Also the more you spend, the more tax you pay because of indirect taxation like VAT or airport taxes. In what way do you propose to change it to make it "fair" ?

If you are suggesting taxing those at the top end of the earnings scale more heavily, then the net result could well be less money to the treasury. In the '70's labour had a top income tax rate of 98%. So the top tax payers moved abroad or used legitimate means of sheltering income/assets from tax.

imlach

Jye,

You pay no council tax, yet I can think of 10 things off the top of my head you may need & use every day from your council which is paid for DIRECTLY from your council tax and sewage/water charges.

1) Your refuse being collected
2) The streets being kept clean
3) Street lighting
4) Education
5) Road repairs
6) Policing
7) Sewage & water supply
8) Parks & recreation & sports facilities (golf courses, swimming pools etc)
9) Courts for law & order
10) Some public transport funding

There's lots lots more (social work, planning, environment etc).

So, I assume you feel good for contributing NOTHING to your council, you feel ok (ab)using the above services?

imlach

So you would have been one that agreed with the poll tax then? It was based on individual contribution with rebates for low incomes.

Jye

Imlach I was talking poll tax not council/community tax, no matter what a anyone else has said. Anyhow, were going back 20 years now. So, streets being cleaned, you hardly see a road sweeper or a street cleaner, with filth and abandoned cars lying everywhere for months on end. You have to write a letter or phone a 'help line' to get anything done. Refuse collection, paa the bin men wont even lift your bin if its too heavy, they don’t even offer recycling which I do myself, they take my bin and leave it across the road every time rather than bring it back, lazy *****. Street lighting, granted that usually works. Education, another joke and if you think not feel free to tell me why illiteracy is still on the go. Road repairs, that’s road tax m8. Another joke and a waste of money with most of the revenue collected being spent on other things. Policing, hahaha, the only time you see them is after the fact, pro-active is not a word they ever use, 2 days after my dads house was burgled the came to 'take the details' and even refused to give him a crime reference number until he kicked up a stink. Of course there is now community wardens and special constables, why is that I wonder. Sewage and water, another OK. Parks, lol. No go areas usually, covered in dog **** and filled with junkies and neds that the police and courts do nothing about. Courts for law in order?? Come on, your having a laugh now. Public transport my ****. So out of your 10 I'll concede to street lighting and water. Hmm, I seem to be paying ‘far’ too much imo.

imlach

Errr....but you're giving the impression you pay zero council tax? So you're contributing nothing....yet you admit to using some of the services.

imlach

Well, the council services don't extend to being psychic do they? Not here. I phone them, and they deal with the problem. How else would they find out about rubbish?

MooseRacer

Jye, you attempts to argue otherwise are, I have to say, laughable. Just disagreeing with the way some things are done doesn't negate their existance.

Jye

And where did I say this? Tell you what Imlach, you win the argument, you’re obviously a last word type, like some of the others more choice personalities on here I might add. I agree with you, I'm a complete tosser and tax evading scumbag, I deserves to be strung up, hung drawn and quartered, my life and all I stand for is worthless in the face of such 'right on' reasoning. Now why dont you run along and save the rest of the UK, if not the world. HF m8 and make sure those scumbag tax paying motorist don’t splash you when your cycling in future, its obviously their right to spash you as they pay tax and you dont, get off the road scumbag, lol