fast bloke

Far to close to a bend in your opinion? Get yourself a quick bike - Try a gixer 750 - Mine would do 70 in first and 120 in second(racing gbox). See how long it takes to pass someone in a car if you are on the cam in 2nd? Maybe 1-1.5 seconds - There are many quicker bikes. You get the same reaction in a scoob - flashing lights and waving fists from the uneducated

r32

Having been a motorcyclist for around 40 years, I do appreciate there is an element (sadly which seems to be growing) that ride at racing speeds on the road, at any elevated speed the chances of getting out of a situation are greatly reduced and the risk of injuries are greatly increased, you are vulnerable on a bike no airbags, no crumple zones no seat belts. Motor bikes in themselves (like cars) are not inherently dangerous, ridden properly and with care they can be a rewarding form of transport. Cars driven at high speeds by inexperienced drivers are also a problem. I have a close life long friend who had just retired from the Policeforce after 30 years, mainly riding Police bikes as a uniformed officer, he attended many accidents most of them cars. He still rides every day and has never had an accident, he has an Aprillia RSV Mille R and is no slouch, but to see him ride is amazing, the way he reads the road and conditons is just awesome. So lets not join the ban them brigade (it could be performance cars like Subarus next, who needs 300 BHP on the road?). What we need is more traffic police and less cameras, and better training for all those on the road.
Its so easy to generalise motorbikes can be dangerous but they dont have to be. Any one found riding in a dangerous manner (and we have all seen them) should be banned. Its just that there are a higher percentage of **** heads ride bikes

DaveMiddleton

I do not own a motor bike (and never will). However I do enjoy watching Superbike and GP racing on TV. Amazed at skill and guts of these guys.
Interestingly, I am good friends of Colin Edwards Snr (father of ex World Superbike Champion and now Honda GP rider)
Colin jnr does NOT ride a bike on the public roads due to his feeling that it is totally unsafe!!!

imlach

Err.....yes, I admit they ARE that fast and manouveres can be done, but you haven't seen what I see I don't consider that to be "uneducated".

Overtaking ON bends is dangerous full stop. These guys ARE taking risks. Some leave little room for error in terms of cars coming the other way, and while 99% of the time that is ok, there is always going to be 1% where that margin is removed for one reason or another.

Sbradley

Interesting thread, this, and refreshing to see that apart from the one troll it has all been thought out, reasoned comment rather than knee-jerk nonsense.

I ride bikes for a living, and do around 40,000 miles a year. I've ridden for 26 years and until recently I was a big proponent of the 'car drivers are all trying to kill us' theory.

But it isn't correct.

Inside towns, the vast majority of injury accidents involving bikes also involve another vehicle, it's true. But speeds are relatively low and although there are frequently nasty injuries the fatality rate is also correspondingly low.

Out of town, though, the picture changes. I'm afraid that statistically at least those of us who make premature appointments with Mr G. Reaper tend to do it all on our own. The vast majority of fatalities are bikes which have lost control on bends and struck either a piece of roadside furniture or an oncoming vehicle.

I wish it wasn't true but it is. The good thing about it, though, is that we have a chance to do something about it ourselves. If we had to rely on car drivers being educated then we'd be ontoa loser. But we don't - we can get educated, trained, whatever you want to call it, ourselves and make the problem go away.

One thing that is worth mentioning, though. While overall KSI numbers have gone up, looking at accidents per thousand kilometers, which makes more sense, biking is safer today than it has ever been. There's just more of us out there...

SB

Coopz

I agree with the fact that bikers do tend to make better car drivers - i know for a fact that since i've took my bike test i'm far more observant when driving my car. I think everyone that takes their car test should be made to go on a bike at least twice just to see how different it is and how much more alert you have to be.

Some bikers are their own worst enemy and put themselves and others in reckless situations, but you'll find the same with car drivers. It is only the small majoirty that do this and people shouldn't tar us all with the same brush.

Bikers do know that they are taking a risk everytime the get on their bike but the most we can do is protect ourselves with the right equipment (i.e. leathers, lid, body protectors etc) and hope that the other road users aren't too busy on their phones, reading maps, sorting out their kids etc to notice that we're there. I've had several occasions when car drivers have pulled out infront of me but have been lucky enough not to come off, but then there has been other occasions when i've been in my car and a biker has overtaken so fast that i didn't even have a chance to see them coming. Unfortunately there's prats on the road full stop, be it car drivers, lorry drivers and bikers, and the majority of accidents are just down to pure carelessness!

Biking is a thrill and thats why most of us do it, but the same can be said for all fast car drivers, you don't buy it to not use the power that's there but hopefully we all do it in a safe place and don't put others at risk!

Brendan Hughes

My parents said when I was learning to drive, or after, that I had excellent anticipation skills.

From age 12 I was on a pushbike riding 1.5 miles each way to school. Slower than a motorbike, but taught me a LOT.

Only accident I can remember in 5 yrs was ironically when one of the teachers pulled out in front of me (school had two exits onto the same road) and I went into her wing and straight over the windscreen.

Have commuted briefly on a Honda Melody (Mum's, I was poor and not too proud to use it for work), scariest moment was when an overtaking massive earthmoving truck decided to pull back in before it had finished the manoevre (someone coming other way) and I had to ride up on the verge.

Not interested in a big bike, especially now at 35, I'd be dead in months, I don't have the concentration.

Ringpeas

Not meant to insult, just to inform.

1) As a car driver I do regularly check my mirrors, but if you are doing a 100+ mph on a twisty 60 mph road you will literally appear out of nowhere.
2) The space between me and the car in front is my safety zone, should the car in front brake sharply. If you overtake 6 cars at 100mph and then pull in front of me and hit the brakes, there is a chance that I wont be able to stop from hitting you if :-
a) you misjudge it, or
b) the car in front hits the brakes.
3) Try not to overtake at junctions. You are not easy to see if you are behind a car.

I have already lost friends to motorbike accidents. My best mate has one leg an inch shorter than the other after a very nasty crash.

Take it easy out there

scunnered

iTrader: (1)

I would reckon that an experienced rider on a high performance bike will most likely have a higher level of concentration than the majority of car drivers. Not least due to the fact that a car driver can be subjected to all sorts of distractions like screaming kids in the back seat, changing the radio station, picking his nose etc. When I'm in the car, my mind can wander, I tend to think about things other than the driving. When I'm on the bike however, I focus 100% on what I'm doing. A car driver will tend to look only as far ahead as the next car. A biker will read the road ahead as far as he can see, always on the lookout for potential hazards. How many car drivers know what's meant by the "vanishing point".

Anybody can drive a car, it takes skill to ride a bike.

davegtt

at the end of the day all cars and bikes are meant to stick to speed limits and we should follow the car infront no matter how slow it is travelling, any car/bike overtaking is putting themselfs at a risk of the person in front not checking their mirrors for example. and manouver is dangerous and any1 attempting a manouver or breaking the speed limit is putting themselfs at risk and you CANNOT pass the blame for being knocked off your bike at 100mph by a car because the car driver was not paying attention and it wouldnt have happened. end of the day if they wasnt overtaking there wouldnt have been a problem FULL STOP.

now this is my opinion every1 else is entitled to their own but if u contest my comments above I dont know what to say cause as far as my sights can see its the truth plain and simple.

HOW MANY BIKERS WOULD BE KNOCKED OFF IF THEY WASNT OVERTAKING?

Jye

MOTORCYCLE DEATHS 2003/4

THE number of motorcyclists killed on Britain’s roads rose to the highest level for more than a decade last year.

A total of 609 motorcyclists and moped riders died, a 4 per cent increase on 2001 and the worst figure since 1990.

The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents attributed the increase in motorcycle deaths to middle-aged men buying high-performance bikes for use at weekends.

Traffic congestion has also prompted more people to buy motorbikes and mopeds. The total distance travelled by motorbike rose by 5 per cent last year, so the number of deaths per mile fell slightly.

The number of pedestrian and pedal cyclist deaths were 8,631 deaths and serious injuries among pedestrians and 2,450 among cyclists.

Sbradley

This is a joke, right?

Bikes and cars have coming togethers at all sorts of places. Statistically, less than 5% are high speed overtakes. The majority are cars failing to see the bike and failing to give way at a junction in urban conditions. Speed anmd overtaking are not the issue here.

Sometimes people overtake in daft place and it goes pear shaped, I agree, but to make a generalisation like that is both simplistic and foolish.

Which means either you decide policy for the DTp or you are very misguided indeed. Or both

SB

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

I do and don't agree.

I think it is an attitude thing.
1. You get road users who don't look further than their nose an don't really understand about car controll, the underconfident - e.g. often the middle aged middle lane type
2. Equally as dangerous are the road users that have good anticipation and reactions but are over confident and don't have the car control skills to really get themselves out of difficulty - e.g The 32 year old outside lane BMW driver
Unfortunately the majority of road users often fall into the above two catagories
3. A very few car drivers have a high level of training. They are defensive drivers and also have a good level of car controll.

So not all car drivers are bad. It is an attitude thing. And I think this applies to all road users. You get the pratt on the bike that appears out of nowhere who falls into cattegory two.

However I would agree that a higher percentage of Bikers and Lorry Drivers fall into cattegory three. As driving and riding defensively is more of a prerequisite for these two groups. It is easier to be lazy in a car.

Many car drivers are lazy, they won't change. So you have to adapt your riding to suit.

I fortunately have been lucky enough to have a huge amount of training and also drive as part of my job, so feel qualified to comment on this

Best wishes
Steve

scunnered

iTrader: (1)

Davegtt,
If as you say, "we should all follow the car in front no matter how slow it's travelling" I would assume from this that you have a "follow the leader" attitude. Are you one of those people that refuse to overtake even if it was a 15 mph tractor holding up the traffic? All to often I come across a half mile queue of slow moving traffic being held up by people like you, refusing to overtake. i bet you would flash your lights/blow your horn if somebody dared to overtake you. Would you consider that queue jumping? I would consider that as "making progress" on the road. Do you also believe that you should drive in the middle lane on the motorway?
If your post was a wind up just to get a reply, then it worked. If you were serious about what you said then I suggest you get some driver training....you need it.

fatherpierre

Has this not become a bit of an aloof thread by holier than thou bikers?

Most bikers I see are skilled, good and aware riders. I appreciate a biker that flashes me before he/she goes past I and flash him/her back in thanks. The minority are ignorant ***** that ride on your **** (blind side) and squeeze past at 50% - 100% the speed limit.

Yes, it takes more skill to ride a bike well, but it doesn't mean that every biker rides well. They don't. I see ****** on bikes every day risking their lives and the lives of others by riding like complete arseholes.

But, I suppose the minority of car drivers that are sh1te is far higher than that of bikers.

davegtt

No now u are being silly, course I'll overtake, and I'll be the first to admit Ive overtook in conditions where its possibly putting myself at risk BUT for example if the car infront pulled out or turned right for example even without indicating I have myself to blame just as much because I didnt read the road that there is a junction up ahead and stuff. if you wasnt overtaking for example there wouldnt have been an accident. people are taking what I said too seriously. and 5% of these accidents are not speed related eh??

cant remember the last time I saw a motorcycle doing the speed limit. end off, if were gonna make up stats Id say at least 80% of motor bikers are almost constantly breaking the speed limit.

jaf01uk

I think the argument being made for bikers being able to overtake at such high speeds instantly due to their astonishing acceleration can in fact be part of the problem, unless motorists are checking their mirrors every 2 seconds (and who does?) these bikes can appear from nowhere so a bit of self preservation would tell me to make sure that the vehicle I am about to overtake knows that he/she is about to be overtaken (check your m/cycle roadcraft) I am still annoyed when I see m/bikes with no headlight on and the rider wearing a reflective sash? I had a discussion with a guy a while ago after I made comment on the fact and he argued that "why should he have to have a headlight on when car drivers didn't" turns out he was a member of something like BAD? bikers against discrimination or somethin like that, I put it to him that the average driver do "look" at their mirrors but dont actually SEE anything other than register that there is something there or not and that a m/cycle will not register unless it draws attention to itself ie by having a light on, but he still argued as to why he had to have a light on and cars didn't and that was descrimination, is this group for real? or is it a tiny minority who seem to drive late 80's bikes painted matt black with no seat foam and wear camo? gear on a bike so they are even harder to see so they can blame other people when they get knocked off?
Gary

fast bloke

Tell me this - Is a red traffic light larger or smaller than a motorbike? Is it OK to kill someone by going through a red traffic light just cos you are not paying attention?

I have already agreed that most 'countryside deaths' are down to stupid speeds, but this applies in cars as well. I am sure most town deaths are down to car drivers who have airbags

Leslie

As SBradley said,this is a very interesting thread with a good variety of opinions and nearly all show good sense. I particularly like R32's post.

Is is absolutely true that a biker's road experience will make you into a better car driver. You learn to look well ahead and take note of road conditions and that can only be good when you get into a car. I also have very long experience on bikes and still remember my initial surprise when I rode my first bike down the road and realised how the road surface varied so much in quite short distances.

I find that because of the risk of mistakes by or not being seen by other road users means that you have to ride defensively and always assume that a car at a side turning is very likely to pull out into me. Being ready for that has saved my bacon more times than I can remember. You just can't assume that because it is your right of way that no one will drive into you. If you do then you are likely to have a short riding career.

I also find that there is no point in being obstructive in the car, even if it is a Scooby and if there is a biker behind me I will give him maximum room to overtake if I am in traffic. A modern sports bike will accelerate blindingly fast, most enjoyable too, but no point in slowing him down anyway. I find most bikers appreciate the cooperation and I get pleasure from that too.

Les