King RA

You do realise Labour and Conservative are not the only parties to vote for right??

Chip

Yeah, don't forget Plaid Cymru

Chip.

Dracoro

mart360 - You've just describe SOME aslyum seekers. That's not all of them, most likely a minority. I've a friend who came over here as a genuine asylum seeker. He and his wife both work (good wage too) paying loads of taxes to support those on the dole. I think just about everyone he knows that is also an asylum seeker also works and it pisses him off that the media cotton on the minority and blow it out of all proportion and he sometimes gets grief for it. Not right is it!

There's far more 'british' people scrounging on the dole, football hooilgans etc. and they are just as bad. Actually, in a way they're worse as we can't 'do' anything about them coz they 'belong' here.

At the end of the day, it's the government who really deserve any wrath as they are not in control of the situation.

ProperCharlie

which is a great relief, as your opinions are founded upon ignorance, are worthless to everyone other than yourself (and probably inculding yourself),and do not merit the benefit of a platform.

as to everyone else who is bleeting on about asylum seekers - you really are distracted from the real nature of the problem. it is not asylum seekers.

chip - one thing (and i do think that it's the only thing) that i agree with you about is national service. i would be in favour of a complusory year of national service for absolutely everyone between the age of 18 and 19, which would be broad ranging in scope, from military to community or environmental work, but would involve hard graft for a basic wage, and living in shared quarters. i really think that would help our society.

ProperCharlie

jesus - is this what i pay my taxes for? so that all you clowns can be as poorly educated as you obviously are? who do i see about getting my money back - something aint working here. have you ever considered that there might be something called history? historical context? that maybe everyone wasn't born in a wimpey home? it seems not.

fatherpierre

These people are usually professional people who also contribute heavily to the burden this country carries to the scroungers.

gareth123

I aren't much educated. You please be educate me on why taxations is spent on stuffs like this is....

brickboy

Too busy p*ss*ng myself laughing at the thought of all Scoobynetters having to do national service if it was re-introduced ... I'd love to see the posts if it was introduced for all males under 45

Ga22ar

All this is exactly why I'm upping sticks and buggering off to Australia... At least they have a rigid controlled immigration policy (taken me 18months to prove I'm of some value/standing to enter their country).

As a condition of entering Aus as an immigrant I've had to sign away all medical\social benefits for 2 years.. Hence once I've been in their system for 2 years contributing I then earn the right to use their system..

Why cant the UK be the same..

Proud of being born British, not proud of what Britain is becomming..

Cheers

fatherpierre

See ya.

Katana

Its cool and being 26 I agree with it being implimented. Unfortunately the doctor says that my third leg would impair me from doing any military excersize so I guess I'll be exempt from it..

Prince Popeye

I'm a taxi driver up north. Recently I've noticed the amount of illegal immigrants mainly kosovans and somalis driving round at night in uninsured, untaxed cars. The police don't even bother pulling these as its too much paperwork. One of our guys (an Asian driver i might add to avoid being called a racist by the PC brigade) was hit by 4 Kosovans in an old Cavalier. They ran off!!! Police got them but couldn't prosecute for some loophole in the law. A JOKE!

Its getting worse each day. God help us when we get albanians up here. I've heard they make AL Capone look like a Vicar. LOL

ProperCharlie

the problem is with the system of control being inadequate or uninforced. it is not with asylum/immigration itself.

vindaloo

How to make Britain Great again? Or just a better place to live.

Stop apologising for invading, colonising and wars in the past. Take a long hard look at what it mean to be British and accept it (warts 'n' all).

Promote British behaviour. Try to stop the magpie like collection of every exciting aspect of American and Continental behaviour which leaves everyone not 'in' wondering what language is being spoken.

Take the Chinese view on Families. The state will pay for one child. YOU pay for any more. <Double flamesuit on here>

Enforce public behaviour and public order laws. Stop littering, drunkeness first. Penalties for persistent offenders should be community service picking up litter or mopping up p*ss and spew.

Spend some money on the infrastructure for the future. Build proper hard wearing roads, maintain the current ones. Massively discount cleaner sources of fuel (biodiesel anyone). Actually build a rail network. Spend money on a health service infrastructure.

Unfortunately, Britain was great because it controlled the seas and thus global commerce. I can't see this happening again as we can't build ships cost effectively or crew them.


Jeremy.

ProperCharlie

not sure what you want to acheive by this - we have enough trouble with the age profile of the population as it is, without creating a tax system to make it worse.

OllyK

There is no point encouraging people to have lots of kids to re-distribute the UK age profile if those kids don't get jobs and themseleves spend much of their life taking rather than contributing to the society cash pot.

OK big generalisation, but take a single mother that is on the dole with half a dozen kids, claiming benefits for all of them. Where are they likely to live, are the kids likely to go to school and get a good education, good job and pay taxes? Or are the kids likely to be out robbing cars, going to jail and then going on the dole? As I said, generalisation, but breeding like rabbits without thinking about the consequences is no solution either

mart360

we are what we are due to succesive governments loosing control of what we stand for..


the current focus is to appear cool on the world stage,,, progressive, diverse,

multi cultural and tolerant....

unfortunatly we have gone too far .. we are now PC to the point of fanaticism....

and the biggest travesty and this is laid soley at hmg feet is that they wont have the courage to stand up and admit they got it wrong...

spin, lies , and obscurity are the way they operate...


we clamp down on racism yet let certain members of these ethnic groups spout non pc diatribes daily ye when questioned .... itss allowed as part of there human rights to free speech....

if i was to take the speech and change who it was directed at i would guarantee i would get my collar felt...


Mart

chaos.

THERE IS A SIMPLE WAY TO MAKE BRITAIN GREAT, ALLOW FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND MAKE A NON POLITICALLY CORRECT SOCIETY

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

But why should we take them and sort them out ???? we are a tiny island in the middle of nowhere.

every other country in mainland europe except about 3 are bigger than Britain and they are more than happy to tell them to sling their hook.

Britain needs to develop some back bone and say enough is enough!!!!

ProperCharlie

i wasn't suggesting that. i was merely saying that discouraging people from having more than 1 child will obviously create problems in the medium term.

OllyK

I don't know that it would. I still don't see why we feel we have a given right to be handed money because we have kids. Having a child should be a well considered process not just a whim or a case of failing to take adequate protection (and I know contraception is not 100%). Part of that considered process should be if you feel you have sufficient funds to bring the child up in a reasonable manner and provide for it in terms of clothing, food, emotional stability and education so that the child becomes a well rounded member of society and a benefit overall.

Fine situations can change and if you fall on hard times after you have the Children then support should be available to ensure that the child is kept fed and clothed, but having numerous kids when you don't have any means of supporting the child other than welfare is just taking the ****. I am not saying we should have forced abortions and everybody is entitled to make a mistake (so support the first child), but a second and third mistake should be tough, you support that child or we can take it in to care an adopt it out to parents who can support it and can't have kids of their own (plenty of them about). If you can support more than one child then go ahead and do it, but I don't see why society should have to help you.

vindaloo

A good point but surely it's because people aren't dying early enough these days. More of us are living for longer. Keeping people active, fit and healthy is the challenge for the future.

For the "one child" thing I think it works on a number of levels. Anyone can have a kid, no matter what the circumstances but it should promote thinking about the situation (if the thinking and decision making hasn't been done already). State benefits can be more tightly focussed and the admin. could be less. There would also be a clearly defined boundary.

Jeremy.

ProperCharlie

vindaloo - yes, it's a damn nuisance that people live so long these days. still, when i increase retirement age to 75 and bring in complusory euthanasia at 80, should sort the problem out

the thing about kids - well for one it isn't the fault of the child that it was conceived - so should we punish thousands of children because they had the msifortune to be born into poverty? also, from my POV, my wife and i have "paid our dues" in the form of tens of thousands of pounds in taxes, i don't see why i shouldn't get a bit of releif now that one of us has to give up work to look after the family. all these smug (sad?) single blokes who think kids are a drain on the tax payer should have a close look at themselves, and also maybe ask their mums if they could stop throwing away the copies of razzle that they keep under their mattresses.

OllyK

Who says I am single? Sad maybe. Who says I don't have kids? My parents didn't see why they should grasp cash off the state to support me, they had me when they were able to support me. I have cost the state close to bugger all. I was privately educated, my parents paid for me to go to Uni the first time, I paid the second. Kids are a not a disability they are (apart for the odd exception) a lifestyle choice or arise from an overly blaze attitude to contraception. Why should I have to contribute to bringing up your kids? You wanted them, you support them. You know Mum is going to need time off work to have the kids. Mum is going to need to have time off to bring them up till they are old enough to go to school or you need to arrange a child minder, budget for it, don't expect me to pay for it. You had the choice to have the kid, I don't have the choice not to pay for it.

OllyK

Possible sexist overtones there - Mum is still gonna have to have the kid, not much we can do about that but Mum or Dad may have to have time off to raise them till they reach school age!

ProperCharlie

Olly - all very well and good *but*

i) i don't expect the state to pay for my kids. all i have ever suggested is there could be some sort of tax break when one person has to give up work to care for the family. e.g. why should one earner bringing in £70k pay more tax than 2 earners bringing in £35k each, when they are partners and have a family?

ii) when you are a decrepit old **** and need heart surgery, hip replacement etc etc, the tax that *my* kids will be paying will be what is enabling you to receive the treatment.

i don't complain about the services that i do not need or use but contribute towrads with my taxes - i think you have some kind of pyschological problem with the idea of a happy family!

OllyK

No they won't - that's why I have private health insurance thank you very much, I can afford it so I opt out of the possibility of being a burden on the National Health Service for anything other than emergency treatment, which touch wood I have not needed so far.

ProperCharlie

ok, ok, you are entirely self-sufficent, have a biscuit.

but the point is still valid - there will still need to be police, armed forces, other govt. provided services. if there are no new earners or tax payers the economy will grind to a halt. maybe you have your own private army, too?

OllyK

I am not disputing the need for police, armed services, public transport (that works) or other such services. I just object to subsidising people who can't be arsed to work and people who choose to have large numbers of kids and expect other people to pay for them.

If I was unemployed I wouldn't be off obtaining things I couldn't afford to support and then expecting other people to pay for it. I had the mis-fortune of being unemployed for 2 weeks when I left Uni the first time. I took the first crap job I could find on a pitiful £6.5K per year rather than be on the dole. It is a matter of pride and it seems to be something that as a nation we are loosing

ProperCharlie

well that's something that we can agree on. i am all in favour of people working, getting on, contributing, having a bit of pride in themselves and their surroundings.