ProperCharlie

Brendan - OK, I am convinced now

however, phrases like "five joints a day" seem a little vague...

overall, the report seems to suggest that the main reason the the health effects of canabis are not as important as those of alcohol or tobacco is because canabis is used less. that doesn't necessarily make it less dangerous.

Buzzer

New Scientist report

High anxieties

What the WHO doesn't want you to know about cannabis

Health officials in Geneva have suppressed the publication of a politically sensitive analysis that confirms what ageing hippies have known for decades: cannabis is safer than alcohol or tobacco.

According to a document leaked to New Scientist, the analysis concludes not only that the amount of dope smoked worldwide does less harm to public health than drink and cigarettes, but that the same is likely to hold true even if people consumed dope on the same scale as these legal substances.

The comparison was due to appear in a report on the harmful effects of cannabis published last December by the WHO. But it was ditched at the last minute following a long and intense dispute between WHO officials, the cannabis experts who drafted the report and a group of external advisers.

s
As the WHO's first report on cannabis for 15 years, the document had been eagerly awaited by doctors and specialists in drug abuse. The official explanation for excluding the comparison of dope with legal substances is that "the reliability and public health significance of such comparisons are doubtful". However, insiders say the comparison was scientifically sound and that the WHO caved in to political pressure. It is understood that advisers from the US National Institute on Drug Abuse and the UN International Drug Control Programme warned the WHO that it would play into the hands of groups campaigning to legalise marijuana.

One member of the expert panel which drafted the report, says: "In the eyes of some, any such comparison is tantamount to an argument for marijuana legalisation." Another member, Billy Martin of the Medical College of Virginia in Richmond, says that some WHO officials "went nuts" when they saw the draft report.

The leaked version of the excluded section states that the reason for making the comparisons was "not to promote one drug over another but rather to minimise the double standards that have operated in appraising the health effects of cannabis". Nevertheless, in most of the comparisons it makes between cannabis and alcohol, the illegal drug comes out better--or at least on a par--with the legal one.

The report concludes, for example, that "in developed societies cannabis appears to play little role in injuries caused by violence, as does alcohol". It also says that while the evidence for fetal alcohol syndrome is "good", the evidence that cannabis can harm fetal development is "far from conclusive".

Cannabis also fared better in five out of seven comparisons of long-term damage to health. For example, the report says that while heavy consumption of either drug can lead to dependence, only alcohol produces a "well defined withdrawal syndrome". And while heavy drinking leads to cirrhosis, severe brain injury and a much increased risk of accidents and suicide, the report concludes that there is only "suggestive evidence that chronic cannabis use may produce subtle defects in cognitive functioning".

Two comparisons were more equivocal. The report says that both heavy drinking and marijuana smoking can produce symptoms of psychosis in susceptible people. And, it says, there is evidence that chronic cannabis smoking "may be a contributory cause of cancers of the aerodigestive tract".

From New Scientist, 21 February 1998

Jye

I do know this, thats why I said isnt 'really'. The picture of everyone getting pissed of fermented fruit and, all for free, really appeals to me

Brendan Hughes

For anyone interested, one of the authors of the report has also written the occasional other article on drug and or alcohol problems. If you can't access the first link I gave, look here for "WHO project on health implications of cannabis use".

I don't say the guy is brilliant and I don't say he's infallible. But you can't argue that he has to be pretty good for WHO to contract him to write the report in the first place, whether or not they choose to publish the end product.

Jye

Buzzer I took your advice and decided not to bother preaching to the unconverted, why risk wasting good grass on em I say

Dream Weaver

In 15 years time cannabis will be legal, and this debate will not exist - scary but true IMO.

Remember that back in the "olden days", Tea and Coffee were banned substances, just in the same way that Cannabis has been for so long.

Jye

UK drug death figures: deaths per annum for 1995 (latest I could find)

Alcohol[1] 4,235
Tobacco[1] 120,000
Cannabis[1,2] 1
LSD[1] 0
Peanuts[3] 7
Viagra[3] 7
Ecstasy[1] 4

[1] Hansard figures for 1995.
[2] Death caused by inhaling vomit [Lord's Hansard report on medicinal cannabis]
[3] BBC news

ajm

It makes you wonder how they work these figures out though.... for example do the alcohol figures include misadventure whilst drunk, does tobacco assume that all heart attacks suffered by smokers are due to tobacco etc.?

rik1471

As long as you don't harm/affect anyone an adult should be able to take anything he/she wishes.

ajm

I agree, although I think it should come with the caveat that they must accept responsibility for their own welfare. For example, a habitual drinker should not expect to receive indefinate free treatment if they are unwilling to stop.

SiPie

The bottom line with cannabis is that there are certain people that it simply just doesn't agree with and can cause psychotic episodes... trust me on ths one as have been there. This tends to happen when the content of the cannabis (THC or whetever the active ingredient is) is particularly strong

However as Brendan (I think) has pointed out in the past, these are people that are predisposed to this and tend to have an existing underlying condition.

Leslies comment about brain damage are simply not true I agree with most of Leslie's posts on here but you've got that one plain wrong mate.

as for the above well... cannabis is effectively an exagerator (sp) of emotions/senses... ie, doesn't music sound much better etc.... so, if there is an underlying anxiety condition then it will maginify the problem big time, so the last thing I'd prescribe is strong weed... panic attack here we come... but if you are relaxed in the first place then it's going to maginify that and you'll be even more so..

This argument has been done to death on SN and as so many people have already pointed out in this thread... never resolved

PS Smoked the damned stuff daily for 17 years... prior to growing up and saving myself from middle-age hippidom and feel 100% qualified to comment, also suffered acute anxiety/panic attacks for 12 of those years and would love to argue the toss with anyone who thinks there is no direct link between the two

Peace brothers

Jye

I agree siPie as my m8 had the same problem with grass a few years ago. He stopped and was put on various drugs like seroxat, prozac, venlafaxine and citalopram, all of which made him feel much worse especially seroxtat which made him feel so low he couldnt go outside for months. He is now on ciprimil and occasionally has a pipe of good organic grass now and again with no apparent side effects. The only problems is he cant give up ciprimil as he feels terrible without it. Nothing is simple in brain chemistry especially for those people who through stupidity or misinformation smoke the crappy toxic resin/soap mainly available in the UK. That crap would make anyone ill.

Jye

Why not ajm? If the government allow it to be sold and then tax these highly addictive products then should they (we) not expect to pay a heavy price somewhere down the line. Its not as if they dont know whats harming the population. Surely thats why alcohol and tobacco are taxed so heavily, to pay for health care. If not we should all be free to have stills in our gardens, cheap tobacco and to pay for our health care. The government cant have it both ways.

SiPie

Spot on Jye ....

Sorry to hear your mate is struggling to give up the meds, good luck to him.

I'm free of all meds and have been for a number of years but agree that Seroxat is an evil drug, it made me feel like **** too. I was on it for a few months, years ago and I binned it and refused all other meds since. Luckily I managed to sort my head (admittedly with help) and got my life nicely back to what it should be but I sure pity the other poor sods that have had similar episodes brought on by weed

Even after the nonsense that I went through I would still lean towards cannabis being 1,000,000 times safer than excess alcohol...as long as it ain't cut with the crap that you mention appears in soap bar ... YUK

Jye

N1 siPie, glad to hear it m8. I have told him he'd be better of stopping smoking atm but he 'says' he's OK and that it actually helps him now. I'm not so sure myself, especially as he doesnt/cant come of the prescribed meds. I cant do more than that though I'm keeping an eye on him.

Jye

Sorry Leslie, missed your reply, OK replace silly with missinformed then

No offence Leslie, but silly seemed an apt word to describe the brain damage 'theory'. Have you a link to this brain damge article btw.

BTW eating vegetables is a cancer risk these days Leslie

ajm

In the instance that these substances were legalised and could therefore be taxed adequately to cover health care then fair enough. However, reponsibility for their own welfare must still exist to the extent that they couldn't blame anyone if they become addicted or ill through it.

Jye

But you were talking about habitual drinkers and drink, which irc is more than adequately taxed. Until they can prove good quality herbal cannabis costs the tax payer money through health care they can bog off wae the tax

Diesel

>>I don't think people should have one without the other<< LOL

Weed can make people dozy - that's fine at home but not if it carries over to work though. You need to be focussed at work not spaced! Moderation in all D

Buzzer

Dead right Diesel

The same can be said about any drug including alcohol (i use alcohol as an example because that's what the thread is about)

Jye

THC corner

Think we crushed the argument under the weight of glandular trichomes Buzzer

Buzzer

PMSL

davyboy

Rather fun isn't it....

you know....Cannabis and beer, at the same time!

Time for another 710ml of Becks and a kingsize spliff! Job done.

Leslie

Jye

No I have not got a link over that brain damage article, I do remember reading it a while ago and that was why I quoted it. "Misinformed" sounds better anyway and not having claimed to be an expert I accept that may be true. I hope so anyway. I have never tried any drug anyway except having been hooked on tobacco and I am very glad to be off it now. Don't mind a drink either. I did not like the thought of a lot of people manufacturing the chance of early dementia for themselves in the future which was what the article was saying. I quoted it as what appeared to be an accredited result of the use of cannabis. Hope this answers your point too Sipie.

When it comes to the point of all those other prescribed drugs, it is true that they are likely to have all kinds of side effects. The doctor will weigh up the pros and cons of the side effects versus the problems caused by the particular illness and prescribe for whatever is the better course for the patient.

Les