ARRON BIRD

Adam I agree.
The T25 is the ultimate Impreza but how can it be compared with the WR1 or the other two when it has a bigger engine???
Its like doing a bike test in a magazine between 600`s and 1000`s???
In some instances the 600 will be quicker and yes they are all bikes that have two wheels and make a noise!!!
I think people are loosing sight of the reason for the test.
To find the ultimate Impreza.
Mike knows that his WR1 cant compete with the T25 as it doesnt have the same bloody engine to start with.
But honestly if you have a problem with an Import is the warranty going to be as good as the IM one!!!!
From my experience with an import Evo quite simply no.
Iain has to admit that he is unable to offer the same sort of warranty that you would get from buying a genuine UK car.
I`ve tested IM`s warranty to the max and would have to say that buying an import for me is always a something that I would consider just because of the superior spec but the warranty issues would worry me as I dont just polish my car I do actually drive it.

Adam M

valid point, but one that iain should answer on.

trouble is with the WR1 and Uk sti ppp being what they ares, I think the majority are going to want to mod to catch up with the rest of the pack, and at that point, the warranty is worthless.

Edcase

Adam, you obviously didn't read a word of my thread, or if you did you didn't take any of it onboard. Your posts read as though you have some kind of grudge against Prodrive.

I'm a mate of Iains, and my next car will almost certainly be a Spec C. What he has done with Powerstation for the T25 is astounding, and must be applauded. IM and Prodrive simply can't, simply won't and simply don't need to compete. It's like comparing online bank interest rates with high street banks, or online electrical retail prices with Dixons or Currys.

As for the tyre comment. Please. Cars really don't come much more 'focused' than the NSXR. It almost didn't even get an official release here. You aren't going to get an average joe driver buying one of them and then falling off the road the first time its damp. The lucky owners of a BMW M3 CSL have to sign a legally binding waiver form before they are allowed to take their track-focused tyres off the forecourt.

As someone with an allegedly good understanding of driving dynamics, I should have thought you would know just how much difference tyres make around a track, particularly when pushing for an ultimate lap time. To call that sour grapes is much more laughable that JF's point about geometry.

scoobynutta555

Off topic, but www.comet.co.uk are cheaper than most specialist internet electrical stores

greasemonkey

Think you're missing the point a little there Adam. "The majority" of WR1 buyers are likely to be second or third time UK Impreza owners who want a sorted full UK car that's a cut above all the other full UK cars. I doubt the majority of these people will even have considered an import, because they want the security of warranty and their local Subaru dealer.

They're not what ye or I would consider "enthusiasts" (as we already know from the poll, only a handful of the 300+ WR1 customers appear to post on SN), get their cars serviced at the dealer, and, when the time comes, px their cars back into the UK dealer chain.

These people are invariably going to be happy with their cars, and, frankly, are unlikely to while away their days looking to blow off other Impreza owners, in which case they're hardly going to care if their car isn't the de facto "Ultimate Impreza" (WTF that means).

As for "modding to keep up with the pack", I don't know about you, but the mods on my car are chosen to make it drive the way I want it to. I don't suddenly feel the urge to add further bits to it whenever something newer and quicker comes out, nor do I feel the need to keep up with whatever Johnny down the road is driving. I don't think that the "majority" of potential WR1 customers will either.

Incidentally, another open question for Iain regarding the warranty on the Type 25... What would the position be if a T25 customer got his car EcuTeKed/Dawesd/etc. somewhere else, and subsequently came back to you with a lunched engine??? Seeing as this car is aimed more at the enthusiast/knowledgeable Subaru driver, I'd have thought this sort of thing would be inevitable at some point...

Edcase

Adam, this is my point!! If the consumer wants more than the WR1 can deliver, then why the f*ck buy a WR1 in the first place if they are going to mod it out of warranty, and spend another few K taking it up to the price a T25 anyway!!!

You are putting yourself in the same boat as a consumer, and that's not a fair comparison. To the average punter, a WR1 is going to simply blow their mind. YOUR problem (and that of a lot on here) is that they are not catering for what WE demand from the cars. I'm afraid that's just commercial reality mate, its nothing personal.

Edcase

Greasemonkey - I already said all that on the last page and it made no impression

RE further modding, I believe it has to be 'Litchfield approved'. Unlike UK dealers, Litchfield has the expertise of Powerstation to call on, so I would expect it has to be done by them.

greasemonkey

Sorry Ed, with so much pointless bollocks being spoken on one thread you'll have to excuse me for missing the occasional nugget!

Edcase

Hehe, I actually hardly post now, but I'm in the middle of videocapturing all my trackday vids so I'm bored

It's a good job this crap is all virtual and not written on paper, we'd have killed the forests a long time ago

greasemonkey

Ah, but just think of the environmental damage involved in making all these monitors, keyboards, meeces, processors and hard disks though. It may be virtual crap, but that doesn't mean there's no downside for the planet.

Chip

Gm,
Are you saying then that ppl who dont mod their cars are'nt enthusiasts. Thats just total bollo*. Nobody loves their car more than myself. I,m an enthusiast through and through and have been for longer than most on this board.

Scoobynet is is not the be all or end all of Subarus. Maybe most drivers are out today actually driving their cars rather than posting on this silly pointless debate going on here.

As I have said before most of the posters on here couldnt drive a scoob flat out even if they tried as they havent the skills or experience to do so.

Chip.

greasemonkey

No, not saying that at all. Go read my post again.

Indeed it is, but as I didn't say that your point is moot.

That was part of the point I was making.

Edcase

LMFAO. And in your post lies a perfect example!!! That is so far from what both GM and myself have been saying, it doesn't even bear laughing at!!! And what relevance does what you just posted have to anything that is being discussed on this thread??!!

As for your last post, there are some very accomplished drivers on this site, some of whom even race professionally. I don't see any point in your post whatsover.

Edcase

Damn, must either type faster or get to the point quicker

Adam M

guys,

I can see why you think I have a grudge against prodrive.

They produce sub standard cars year on year and charge people for the privilege, yet everytime because of their name they succeed in doing this.

I think prodrive should stick to building and racing cars, rather than selling to the public.

Ok, fair point about the tires, but they are not litchfield tires, anyone can buy them, and again they were the state of what was fitted on the car when it was to be tested. Nothing stopping prodrive from doing the same.

I just hate the way it has to be an unfair test because prodrive's car came last when an unknown company produces a car which trounces it.

Had the article gone the other way, would this thread exist?

Credit where credit is due, thats all I am saying.

Chip

OK.

Chip.

Chip

When has that ever mattered on scoobynet

Yes there are some very, very good drivers on here. Have been in the car with a few so I do know. I was just pointing out that the majority would not be capable or driving a WR1, P1 or whatever scoob to its limits.

As for your last comment, Ill say what I want or do I need your approval

Chip.

greasemonkey

Haven't commented on your attitude to Prodrive one way or t'other Adam

Whoa there! Let's get one thing straight. Prodrive do not sell cars to the public, unless you count Gp N or WRCars. Prodrive are, as far as Subaru roadcars are concerned, a third party design/development consultancy hired by IM to develop certain products. The fact that they also engineer the rallycars is a happy coincidence.

The WR1 is sold by International Motors via their dealer chain, and was developed by Prodrive according to an IM brief. The exact specification, price level and so-on will have been decided in advance by IM, and Prodrive's only job would have been devising a final product that satisfies the draft specifications laid out in the brief, albeit with consultation along the way.

A big part of Prodrive's remit in developing both this car and any other IM-distributed product will be making sure it satisfies reliability/warranty parameters, as well as performance ones. That is not a compromise that third party tuners have to consider to anywhere near the same extent.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure anyone's actually said that.

It'd probably still be here, but it would have been started by a group of similarly bored/**** prospective Type 25 owners wondering why their car had been trounced by a car with 500cc less displacement and a £5K lower pricetag.

Edcase

Of course you can say what you want, its a free country. Its just annoying when people jump into a thread without reading it right through (or at least the last couple pages) and jump down peoples throats when they are arguing practically the same point as you are Go back a page and read thru again and see what I mean.

I still don't understand what point the majority not being capable of driving a WR1, P1 or whatever scoob to its limits has to what we are discussing here?

MikeWood

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but OK Adam, just what is sub standard about our cars?

And if the WR1 is so bad, you won't want me to drive you round Bedford on the 28th April at the Autocar evening then will you?

Pity I wasn't invited to any of the recent EVO tests to make sure our car performed as well as the others present really.....

BTW WR1 HAS got exactly the same transmission system as a Spec C other than slightly longer 5th and 6th gears.

Mike

Edcase

that was me

WR1

Does that mean you've got a space going, I'd certainly be more than happy to help out and fill it if you need someone else...

greasemonkey

Just to clarify this Mike, are you saying that the entire transmission system (bar 5th/6th ratios) is common - including the rear diff?

MikeWood

GM

As far as I'm aware, yes. The DCCD-A uses a more agressive rear diff to make it work as it should.

The event at Bedford is one of Autocar's events that Subaru will be attending. I will be taking the WR1 round to demonstrate to anyone that is brave enough!!

Mike

Blobster

Definitely not brave. Stupid maybe. But Yes PLEASE.

Rob

Adam M

If the car is an IM car, then why is a prodrive man calling it their car?

Having said that, I shouldn't be too hard on prodrive since they did spec te 22B which I know and love.

No mike, I wouldn't want a passenger lap with you thanks for the offer, I do feel truly gutted to have burned that bridge though nice tactic!

p1doc

i wonder if there will be a report on the autocar day and a whole new thread like this will start again!
if what greasemonkey said is true and he does seem to know a lot (well more than me anyway)it would be nice to see prodrive produce what they wanted as their road car and not for IM-i am sure these would sell!!
martin

greasemonkey

Possibly because, as mentioned further up, Prodrive developed it. If you phone any of their locations tomorrow asking if they'll sell you a WR1, I'm pretty sure you'll be politely be referred to IM, or your local Subaru dealer.

greasemonkey

What makes you think the WR1 isn't the sort of car they'd want to sell anyway Martin? Mike's said on a number of occasions that he's happy with it, and I'm pretty sure either Nick or Simon (or maybe both) have concurred.

As far as then producing "their own" roadcar, independent of IM, that's not exactly likely, as it would in effect set them up as a third party grey importer in competition with the official UK dealer chain. Given the political ramifications of this, can't exactly see it anytime soon. In any case, as mentioned above, what makes you think the car would be notably different from what we have in the WR1?

Edcase

GM, I think that would depend how much say Damian H had in it