ARRON BIRD

Mike I think the best thing is for you to let me drive it on this test day evening thing whatever as I am totally un-biased as you know.
I`m actually up there on the 27th with Steve as he is takin the Noble out for the first time so I could make myself available the next evening too
If you supply me with the relevant Prodrive/Subaru designer attire I will attempt to look the part too with my blond mullet it should go down a storm.
Ari Birdenen!!

http://img1.photobucket.com/albums/0...Y/bedford8.jpg

Remember I have no DCCDADCDADDRETEA diff
And am a true mupet!!!
Bring on your WR1.
No punn intended.
PS Please all of you remember one thing the WR1 is the best value UK car that we have ever had.
Thats a fact.

p1doc

i presume they have to publically like their IM approved product and i know realistically prodrive could not produce their WR1 but i am always an optimist or an idiot depending how you look at it
martin

greasemonkey

It stands to reason that they wouldn't put their name to anything they weren't happy with, given whatever constraints they had to work with. Still, I don't think Mike would have spoken so enthusiastically of the car if his feelings weren't genuine. He could just as easily have said nothing.

LitchfieldImports

Without wanting to be dragged into something, it is important to point out that the Type 25 was never designed to ‘trounce’ anything. It was decided on long before the WR1 was even put into production and its only aim was to improve on the success we had in 2003. I’m sure anyone else would do exactly the same in my position, especially with the end of the Limited Edition Spec C
The fact that the Press, Mike Wood and IM even know who we are means that we must be doing something right. I know it can be perceived like we were in competition but that was never the intension.

As for the testing on the day I don’t think it could have been any fairer. The Type 25 was the first to go out after heavy rain (all be it on a quick drying track) and it was the first time John Barker had driven the new circuit. He took the Spec C out next and found a better/quicker line through the new tight hairpin. So I’d like to think that maybe with the extra circuit time and different line the two would be even closer
After some lunch/fuel we went off to some of their favourite B-roads for the afternoon.

In relation to the tyres the RE070 are far from barely legal race tyres. I have had them on various STI’s over the last 16 months and I think they are superb in most conditions (I know this can subjective/personal). The Spec C won the first round of the 2003 car of the year in a very wet Scotland trip and the year before the NSX-R won in a wet Wales on RE070’s which hopefully says something.

GM if you were in our position what would you do about people taking your car away to be “EcuTeKed/Dawesd/etc”? Bearing in mind that the car was originally spec’ed to cope with the Arrons of this world lol.

It was a shame you didn’t come over Mike are you going to Bedford on Friday?

Iain

greasemonkey

Never intended to imply otherwise Iain, the raison d'etre with the T25 is clear, and, as you say, the relative timescales of your and the WR1 programmes also make it obvious that you weren't trying to take them on. My "trounce" comment was merely a response to the "what if it had been the other way round?" point made by Adam, no additional meaning intended.

Well, on the face of it I'm not sure how I'd try to keep a lid on it, which is why I asked! You'd think that standard output of the Type 25 would be adequate () for most customers, but I daresay there will always be those who'll want more, especially given that you're likely to be selling to the more enthusiastic end of the market.

If you do get a car back with a damaged engine, I can see how you'd be able to tell if the ECU had been reflashed, but the influence of a Dawes or similar external device could be harder to spot if it's been removed prior to the car's reappearance. Just hope that this doesn't become a problem for you in the longer term.

Jeesh, it's that strong?! Just think how much development cost you could have saved if you'd simply decided up front that you didn't want to sell a Type 25 to anyone whose name rhymed with "Barren Herd"

LitchfieldImports

You always have to plan for the lowest common denominator and Bucks Fizz wanna be

Iain

ARRON BIRD

I see myself as more of a Bucks Fizz wannabe really
Iain you know you have a very strong product there.
Just the warranty issue really.
Can you really say that you can offer a warranty that is as strong as the Im one???????
The other downside and I am being over picky is the servicing.
at the moment I drop my car off at my dealership(which seem to be diminishing) and collect a courtesy car and pick up later in the day no quibbles.
Cheltenham is an excuse for a whole day out
I really liked the T25 and found the power astonishing.
Handling was hampered by your rear arm.
I had some new pads fitted to my car a day or so ago and had noticed the understeer was crap.
A bolt had fell out of mine!!!
Its a little better now
I think you need to sell it for £32000 max tho mate.
Cant see the £7500 difference between a new JDM and the T25 but while you have a full order book why worry
I wouldnt thats for sure.

scoobynutta555

what id like to know, is the 2.5 'conversion' only available to sold as new blob eye cars, or is there a conversion going for classic shapes? I appreciate that this may be a more complex project with new ecus, running gear and turbo etc etc but I seem to remember there was a thread on here recently re people ordering 2.5 units from the US on a group buy, and im assuming that at least a few owned classic imprezas.

I got the impression that there was no single garage these modders had in mind for the conversion, maybe a few doing their own projects!

It would be interesting to know if there is some sort of conversion out there by a respected garage, or if something is in the pipeline.

Brun

Did you have to ask that question?
I just felt a twitch in my pants

ARRON BIRD

I was offered a 2.5 full engine the other day for a lot less money than I see going into the T25 even if you take the labour into account and stuff I still cant see £7500.
Can doesnt even come with 18" wheels in the price does it??
I think it actually handles better on 17`s as a lot of cars do but I think the 18`s that ain had on it at Bedford in the morning looked much better.

LitchfieldImports

If £7,500 includes a labour, turbo, suspension, Aero parts etc you should go for it Arron

I feel my warranty is just as good as others but then I would say that you'll just have to become a customer and find out

Iain

ARRON BIRD

well Iain it may happen when you bring the price down a smidge and offer me a bullet proof warrant
Aero kit look crap tho mate too Max Power.
Great for the Barry boys.
Perhaps you should offer it on Nova.Net

Clive the Brave

They're not what ye or I would consider "enthusiasts" (as we already know from the poll, only a handful of the 300+ WR1 customers appear to post on SN), get their cars serviced at the dealer, and, when the time comes, px their cars back into the UK dealer chain.

These people are invariably going to be happy with their cars, and, frankly, are unlikely to while away their days looking to blow off other Impreza owners, in which case they're hardly going to care if their car isn't the de facto "Ultimate Impreza" (WTF that means).



what a ****, how can you gen about enthusiasts.
who the hell do you think you are making acusations like this.
I look all the time for people like you, "lower down in the food chain" eat my dust.

Arn't we all enthusiasts here, thats why we are here,,,,,,,, whats your name HOMER!!!!

I'm very proud to be one of only 500 owners of the WR1.
exclusive club not a common club

LitchfieldImports

Arron perhaps you could be a design guru/consultant on my next car Anyone with your sense of style must be in high demand

Iain

ARRON BIRD

Yes Iain I do think that would be a viable proposition but I am very expensive....bit like yourself
My labour alone would be at least £7500!!!!!
Now if you need a nice new kitchen we could have a deal that would benefit both of us
I could whack some of MY labour on that
You know you have no worries mate.
You deserve all the success that your car brings you in my opinion and I also think that you and Prodrive see the cars as completely different markets and animals.
I bet mike would love IM to produce a car with a 2.5 engine.
But he does make the very best of the product that he has available to him.
Like I said its the best value for money UK car that we have seen so far.
No doubting that not even you

Edcase

LOL, these threads just go round in circles every two pages

PS CLive the Brave, I think you got the wrong end of the stick m8. You yourself are now generalising in exactly the same way but from the other end of the scale

greasemonkey

It's an ****, not "a ****", and I wasn't "generalising about enthusiasts", you are missing the point I was making completely.

I think I'm me, and I wasn't making "acusations"(sic), I was making an observation, which your own post has, ironically, added weight to.

Eh? WTF are you talking about? I wasn't making any reference to "food chains", I was saying that some owners have a different set of priorities to others. Incidentally, it's a bit rich accusing (two c's) someone of generalising when you're going to do exactly the same thing yourself. You don't have a clue who I am, let alone who "people like me" are.

Indeed. However, as stated previously, it would appear that only a very small number of soon-to-be WR1 owners "are here". What about the other 400 or so who've never even heard of Scoobynet, let alone post here?

And so you should be. Please go back and find something I said that suggests otherwise.

greasemonkey

I'm not sure about that Arron. Given that the car is way more than just a standard JDM Impreza with a bigger engine, I'm not sure how you can say that. If you imported a JDM STi, and then did everything necessary to bring it up to equivalent specification of a Type 25, then tried to insure it, then tried to get a third party warranty company to cover it, I think you'd probably find £7K5 would seem like a pretty good deal.

If I was buying a new Impreza with a view to modifying it, that car already has everything I'd concievably want to add, whether it be the bigger middle bit (bottom end is a misnomer with Subarus!), turbo, suspension, whatever. It's all there, and without the need to even put a spanner on the car, let alone carry out major mechanical surgery and then get involved with third party remaps and so-on.

Given that it also comes with the protection of a warranty, I can see that being a very attractive package at its current asking price.

Sortof answered your own question there???

Clive the Brave

some times it feels like a mother's tea morning when you go over all the details, gossip and pun's going around here.

Horse's for course's.
Everyone love's there car's in there own ways, some more than other and some taking their love a little to far.............. the end of the day we are all here because of one thing............ SCOOBY's, sharing informaiton, ideas and experiances. Keep it rolling.

Greesemonkey............ have you nothing better to say other than ............. errrr you missed "n" off the the a to make an, man..........

How do we know how many WR1 owners are reg with SN ?
Has anyone done a thred for this before ?

The Shrink

How on earth would that then be a "fair" comparison?

greasemonkey,

I understand what you're saying re the BS power or performance figure battle, but surely what'll happen now, is that people will say a WR1 is nowhere near as fast as prodrive/IM claim, regardless of whether it CAN perform (albeit with "specialised" drivers) because THAT's what the magazines tested it at, and obviously the magazines are gospel etc etc I think Prodrive are in a no win situation tbh (especially on here where everyone seems so quick to rubbish things)

I think it's a shame IM didn't take the opportunity to get Prodrive to create a 2.5 car which would offer a "proper", tangible improvement (straightline) over an STIxx PPP and create a true range topper. But I guess that's probably for next year.

greasemonkey

Well, yes, I obviously did have something better to say than that. Only eight words or so were a reference to your spelling/grammar. The other hundred-odd were addressing the point you made.

Yes, somebody ran a poll not too long ago. Think the result was that something like 20 people raised their hands to say they'd ordered one. If we add you to the list, that makes 21, out of 500. Even if we're generous, and assume that 100 of them eventually go to SN users, I think you'll see why I can make sweeping generalisations about the majority of prospective WR1 owners not posting here.

Oh, no doubt. I think this touches on something I've said before about claimed power figures not being repeatable on rolling roads (and whether this is significant), but in the main it's a product of the way online forums in general operate.

Fact remains though that it would be extremely unusual to find a car whose published acceleration figures can be matched or exceeded by a "normal" driver driving in a "normal" way on a "normal" road, and so, in as much as all these figures are similarly unrealistic, they do serve some sort of comparative purpose.

Waters will soon get muddy though when Auto Express/Evo quote one set of figures, Autocar something else, Car something else and so-on. Who's right???

Nature of the beast unfortunately. I daresay the Prodrive employees who post here are used to it.

When you look at the timescales involved, I don't think that was even a possibility for this year.

The WR1 was, so it seems, given the go-ahead fairly late, maybe even as late as the early to middle part of November. Sure, we knew beforehand that the UK was going to get a limited number of the 265ps/DCCD STi's (that are being sold elsewhere through Europe), but the decision to make the UK car "more special" may only have come after PS won the championship at the Rally GB.

I would imagine that Prodrive were given the "Euro" spec DCCD STi as the donor, along with a development budget and a per-unit cost cap, plus the usual reliability and servicing strictures, and basically told to "see what you can do with that".

Thus, a 2.5 car wouldn't have even been on the radar this time round. Still, as you say, there's always next year, especially if Iain can't make enough Type 25's to satisfy demand.

Adam M

Whilst I agree with your chastising of Clive the brave here, even though he seems to be supporting my point, I think it is unfair for you to point out mistakes in his spelling/typing/grammar.

Especially since no one has pointed out to you that two things are different "from" one another, not "to" one another.



ps. this post was in jest

Andrew O'Hara

Arron,

You couldn't handle the power of the Type 25 on a day to day basis......you would need coaching from your racing driver friend

ARRON BIRD

I would mate
but i fear that the T25`s power is even too much for someone as chosen as you.
My Master.

MikeWood

Iain

Just a little frustration of mine that the next two issues of EVO will contain big articles about various Impreza models being compared to our cars and guess who's the only company not present for the testing?? Unfortunately I won't be at Bedford on Friday as my wife needs me at home...



In the name of science we went out and tested our brand new WR1 demo car this morning and below are the figures we got on the first run. Bear in mind that this car has done only 2000 miles, has new tyres which weren't even warm and weighs 1649kg as tested I don't think that the figures are too far off into a headwind. Even had a full size spare but I do have to admit that it was pre sausage sandwich As you can see the rev limiter in 4th only gives you 104.72 mph and I couldn't be bothered to change into 5th!

************* Acceleration Test ****************

Vehicle WR1

Time 09:12

Date 05/04/2004

Vmax 104.72 mph

Dist Vmax 423.404 m

Time Vmax 13.65 s



Speed Time Distance AccelG

00010 0.48 1.091 0.96

00020 0.94 4.157 0.98

00030 1.53 10.839 0.90

00040 2.40 24.528 0.76

00050 3.31 42.860 0.69

00060 4.55 73.436 0.60

00070 5.92 113.233 0.54

00080 7.69 173.076 0.47

00090 9.61 246.230 0.43

00100 11.99 347.150 0.38



Distance Time (s)

100m 5.50

200m 8.45

300m 10.95

400m 13.15

500m 15.35

1/4 Mile 13.20

Other runs had slightly different figs, in some the launch was better but although I caught the limiter in second the later increments were faster

The figures from our original test are below but these were done on the development car which has a lot more miles on it. Weights were similar though with all the testing equipment fitted. Track temperature was a little higher as well.

Vehicle 04STi PPP

Time 15:28

Date 19/02/2004

Vmax 104.67 mph

Dist Vmax 365.464 m

Time Vmax 12.00 s



Speed Time Distance AccelG

00010 0.44 1.042 1.04

00020 0.93 4.364 0.98

00030 1.41 9.636 0.97

00040 2.29 23.754 0.80

00050 3.08 39.691 0.74

00060 4.25 68.596 0.64

00070 5.43 103.040 0.59

00080 7.01 156.225 0.52

00090 8.65 218.613 0.47

00100 10.67 304.350 0.43



Distance Time (s)

100m 5.35

200m 8.20

300m 10.60

400m 12.75

1/4 Mile 12.80


Mike

ARRON BIRD

Reckon I could shave at least a second off that time.
Mike did you remember to take the hand brake off like I told you???
Did you try the hold 5000 at let it av it???

Adam M

Unless someone wants to call mike, a liar, you can't complain about the results as tested.

I am shocked to see how heavy the car is

But fair play for putting up the data.

Mike can you comment on the nature of manufacturers claims in terms of their legal implications.

Are you duty bound to quote conditions? is there an accepted leeway on their repeatability? can they be used in order to refuse a car under the trade descriptions act?

I don't recall ever seeing any disclaimers when reading these claims in brochures, unless there is a global disclaimer at the end which I may have just skimmed over without recollection.

It would be interesting to find out.

Edcase

I always said the Evo boys ate too many sausage sandwiches

p1doc

with those figures i think i need mike to drive my car..all the time
it is a shame that mike and his wr1 cannot make it to the next comparisons as at the end of the day they are all brilliant cars with different goals as everyoni has said..although i wish i had enough money for a t25
martin

ARRON BIRD

I`ll do it then Mike you are a liar