NACRO

It's easy for people to say that handing over the money is the best thing to do, however in that situation you never know if they'll just stab you anyway (these scumbags punched him in the nose AFTER they'd got the cash). A similar thing happened to me in the less salubrious area of A'dam red light district, large guy approaches says he wants money, show me the knife etc. I ended up pushing him into the road and running into the nearest sex shop. A stupid thing to do but the point is in these situations it's all too fast for thought, you just have to react.
At least this time no real harm was done, don't let some little ***** like this get you down David.

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Sadly had a simular thing happen a while ago a guy was beating up his so called girlfriend in the street I asked the guy to stop and he smacked me in the face, I saw red and let rip, I punched him so hard he hit the ground like a sack of wet s*it and then i hit him two more times the scum bag, he then ran off and went into a pub and started another fight, but the next guy he tried to hit was a policeman need I say anymore!!!!!!! and when it went to court he got six months and I got £150 compensation, would I do it again, don't think so.
Cheers
Colin

Brendan Hughes

Well done David, you did the right thing.

As to all you keyboard heros - I had a second dan in taekwondo after 7 years' training (I say had as I haven't trained for 10 years now), and a guy pulled a 8" blade hunting knife on me when I didn't expect it. His other hand was on my collar, and we were in a narrow doorway (my brother's flat). I thought his behaviour was a bit aggressive, I found out later he was out of his head on speed.

Yes I hit him, and yes I survived, but I only found out an hour later talking to the cops (after he'd gone away and returned to cover the front door with petrol and set it alight) that my neck had parallel nicks down it, which could only be from the serrated edge of the knife. I don't remember it but it was rather quick. So I'd say the distance between me being lucky and me being dead was about 4mm.

He's a known criminal and the case was dropped before it got to court, apparently due to lack of evidence (no witnesses to the fight or the petrol).

It turned out not so bad, but gambling my life for 4mm? I think I'd prefer to pay £30.

The best to you all.

imlach

Brendan,

Your experience says it all.
I rest my case

LG John

I have to disagree with the general opinions on martial arts and also the above statement to a degree. I've done martial arts for over a year now and if I was in the situation described above and tried to defend myself I'd almost certainly end up dead as would all of the underbelts and most of the lower level blackbelts I know. But there are 1 or 2 people in my class that I assure would have destroyed both of them knife or not and probably the third person from the shadows to. Its not so much skill (although that plays a major part) but more so lightening quick decision making power. The ned pulls the knife thinking, 'when he sees this he'll **** it and I get a result' As soon as the person I'm thinking about sees that knife he's reacted instantly and before the ned has even contemplated using it he's out cold. We are talking about people that don't need to think here they just react to the dangerous situation in an instant and no ned in the world is going to be ready for that.

There is no such thing as an invincible person and I can score a hit on just about anyone, even my instructor. The critical difference is that very often he knows when I'm going to act often before I do and can effectively toy with me. Its not reflexes as being younger mines are probably quicker and our muscles probably aren't that different either but its his reading the situation and knowing what to do and when and making that decision instantly. Once you get to the top level of martial arts this is something that a lot (but not all) people develop and thats why I feel that some people would have defused that situation and kept their £30 no problem at all.

However, for the rest of us (i.e 99% of the population) you should just hand it over. FWIW, the reason to fight isn't for the money but rather the principle of it.

imlach

Absolute nonsense.

You can NEVER be 100% certain the person you are up against is not some martial arts king either, and notwithstanding that, ANYTHING could happen and usually does.

Yes, the balance of probability (and I know you understand that word!) is that the majority of times, your friends will manage to overpower them, but to walk around the streets thinking one is invincible is a bit too Hollywood.

LG John

I should stress further that I'm not saying you do 5 or 10 or 20+ years and you instantly qualify to survive knife attacks outnumbered 3:1. I'm saying that people do exist that have the physical training and more importantly the mental training and also natural mental character to deal with these situations quickly and efficiently I probably could never be like that as I don't have the 'character' for it as I question my actions and that microsecond hesitation would get me killed.

RichWalk

Best comment so far (not context wise though) use your brain! I know/drink with many extremely skilled blokes, some decent some total loones.... over the years all of them have got into scrapes many off which they won. Prob is who have u hit?? A large % of them have been hospitalised a good while afterwards, a close friend was baseball batted within mins' of his life another wheelchair bound for months after a shotgun attack......... message is you never know who you are dealing with and what the future repercussions will be!

imlach

I would also concur that martial arts "training" is just that. You can look as competent in the class as you like, as :

1) You know in a class no-one is going to kill you
2) It is training, so you're prepared for an attack to happen.

Back in the real world however......

LG John

Nobody is invincible but the chances of someone thats at a level of martial arts to be a remote threat to a 3rd degree black belt and above pulling a knife is very very very slim. People don't committe 10 years of their life to training for martial arts to end up on the street mugging people at knife point.

Of course anything could happen thats life! Every time I step into my car I probably have a 0.5% chance of being in a fatal crash but these are odds we live with all the time every day. Similarly the odds of the neds scoring a particularly damaging hit are probably small enough to justify action given that being held at knife point is not something you do every day unlike driving, extreme sports, using a chainsaw in your back garden, etc.

RichWalk

Imlach- totally agree, martial arts et al can get you in more trouble than not being 'trained', I think its very useful for female defense, but after that should be treated as the disipline its meant to be. On a personal note, I have meet many 3rd Dan types, never seen one win a pub fight especially against a boxer or 'jap slapper'

LG John

Rich where the hell do you live?? Bosnia???

Imlach not everyone that does martial arts is also a white collar worker that pays his taxes and helps his landlady with the garbage To some its their life, there entire character is based around dealing with situations in the most effective manner possible. Why do you think British special forces guys can take out loads of 'normal' guys when just 5 or so of them are dropped into Iraq or wherever.............cause they are proper fvcking hard!

imlach

You'll perhaps be suprised to learn that even SAS people die as well

Does that not say something?

LG John

Here is one way to look at it.

Take me (I'm not a fighter) and train me up in martial arts for 10 years. Now stick me in the ring with someone hard as ****, has a fight every weekend street fighter and see what happens. I'd maybe hold my own for a while but would likely get a kick in.

Now take said streetfighter type and train him up in martial arts for 10 years and stick him in the ring with another streetfighter type......................what happens now I hope you see what I'm driving at. Not everyone that does martial arts was soft as sh!te to start with

I dont doubt the SAS die but on the balance of odds they take a LOT more people out than they get killed

Lord Shrek

too many 'i do martial arts' idiots think they are hard because of this

so what..you practice throwing a few kicks and punches...and

there are street fighters who fight every day who will make mincemeat out of these john wayne wannabes

unless you are steven seagal then forget it

martial arts counts for nothing...just an inflated ego that will land you in trouble with the wrong person

plenty of nutters out there who will pick up a brick and slap you with it whilst you are trying to perform a Danielson Mr Myagi roundhouse kick

anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool

case dismissed...NEXT!!!!!

Neanderthal

iTrader: (6)

To quote the old bloke in Karate Kid... "there will always be someone better than you"

My parents got mugged in Paris 10 years ago, 4 or 5 blokes surrounded them on some steps, my dad protected my mum as much as he could, they used stanley knives to relieve her of her handbag, and just to make sure my dad didn't try and stop them they slashed his arms & face (leather jacket saved his arms) Luckily for my dad the hospital they took him to had one of France's leading surgens and he survived.

imlach

OK, and therefore the same argument applies to your "martial art" friends then!

You seem to believe the hype of the SAS being superhuman, so I suspect you rank them above your martial art friends....hence your friends have a higher chance of things going wrong....

LG John

Again lord, not everyone that does martial arts was a wuss to start with I am and have no problem admitting it but I know people that would still be hard as fvck even without their skills and training!

LG John

It's not about ranking anything or anyway. I just know that if you gave me a knife and two helpers and told me to go kill my instructor I'd not even try it because I know we'd end up battered. There is no doubt in my mind, no doubt at all.

I guess this is something that people can't understand until they see it for themselves. 99% of people that go to martial arts just turn up learn and perfect a new kick become fitter and more flexible and leave feeling better about themselves. There is as always that other minority percentage that are somewhat different

imlach

Exactly - and back in the real world on the street, you're not given the benefit of perusing your attacker's CV to gauge his experience before you decide what to do.

Lord Shrek

exactly

martial arts gives you a false sense of security about how hard you are

complete waste of time unless you have the hardcore mentality to go with it

the odd 1% are natural hardcore fighters..the rest just soft bruce lee wannabes

unless you have regularly fought on the streets then you will be eating concrete pavement

best to use your mouth to talk your way out than trying to act like chuck norris and looking like a *****

case dismissed....NEXT!!!!!!!!

ozzy

Kenny,

The whole ethos with Special Forces is their ability to operate in small numbers. There maybe 5 guys, but there's a whole team supporting them behind the scenes. I've met a few from the SBS (including my own troop sgt who was a SBS instructor for more than decade). They have the skills and belief that they can do a job extremely well, but they are far from superhuman.

Sheer firepower will win easily against a small number of men, so 5 guys ain't gonna defeat 50 well-trained Iraq's with AK-47's. They win by not engaging the enemy directly and using covert techniques and fast commando-style attacks to surprise them.

Anyway, most guys I've seen beating the cr@p out of 2 or more guys have always just been headcases or ones that are used to street fighting in the first place. Guys I wouldn't mess with regardless of what training they have.

It just so happens that these forces attract people from rough backgrounds who happened to be nutters in the first place.

There's no argument that someone with some level of hand-to-hand training has a better chance than someone without, but that's all it is - you increase your chances of survival, but it's far from a gaurantee that you will.

The people that survive are usually the ones with the brains that will assess a situation before it goes t!ts-up and avoid it. Violence should be the last resort IMHO.

If you just think you can handle anything with some superhuman ability you're likely to get your head kicked in sooner or later.

Stefan

LG John

So in otherwords they are outnumbered and outgunned but still achieve the result because are trained to use methods to work against this disadvantage. I rest my case

Nobody is superhuman - I've never said that - and nobody can 'win' in any and every situation - I've never said that either. All I'm saying is that its wrong to just automatically assume that everyone should just bend over and hand over their £30 in the situation outlined by the post. There are people that would quite simply beat the living crap out the attackers for even thinking about it. And if you really believe that people that hard and able don't exist then you are even more 'in the clouds' that those that think doing martial arts for 5 years makes them hard

ozzy

Well yes and no. Special forces don't go behind enemy lines completely blind. They have all the intelligence they want and usually spend days scoping out situations.

Training doesn't always mean combat training. It means knowing how to assess the situation, make intelligent decisions and then act on them.

It also doesn't mean they are outnumbered. Say they are rescuing a hostage. They will plan routes in and routes out and there maybe 100 men guarding the hostage, but they will probably only engage 2 - 3 men at any given time. They don't just barge in and attack on mass.

In the grand scheme of things it appears they are outgunned, but any one man may only kill one other at any given moment.

Stefan

ozzy

Oh and Kenny, running away would be classed as a training method used to work against a disadvantage

Stefan

Dracoro

Personally I'd give the muggers what they want. However, I'd make sure that I'd be looking at them carefully (faces, hands, clothes etc.), smells, voice etc. to enhance them being identified after the event. If safe I'd look to see where they are going afterwards.

As with anything, you have to size it up at the time using your instincts. There will times when the best thing to do it stand up to them, run away or give them what they want.

You also have to be aware that there may be more of them that are just out of sight and will help the mugger if things get dicey so generally not worth the risk.

Martial arts - I thought this was all about defence and NOT being 'hard'. The point of it means that even if you are not a big strong fighter you can still defend yourself.

Leslie

I think you were sensible David, no knowing what they might have done to you. Like PSL I think I would have found it very difficult not to have handed him one between the eyes with my arm crutch, but probably would have been finished off for my trouble.

This sort of crime is getting worse and worse these days. These thugs have no compunction now in seriously injuring you or even killing for the sake of robbing you. The authorities must start to take really positive action against these criminals. If it is just left as it is now, the situation will become irreversible. There will be "no go" areas everywhere and all the law abiding, from young people to the elderly, will be at constant risk for their lives. This is the undeniable responsibility of the goverment of the day and they ignore it at their risk as well as ours.

I can find no excuse for this kind of behaviour. They are well able to understand they are doing wrong and breaking the law of the land. They should find themselves in the situation of having surrendered their so called human rights and liable to extremely unpleasant punishment.

Les

imlach

Oh, I do believe these people exist, but I question their brainpower

Tiggs

whats the self defence technique for taking a knife out of your spleen? do you whip it out real quick while doing a "van-damme" face?

T

ps- im 6'6 and 20 stone and the only advantage that i feel that gives me is that given me and a "normal" size bloke i'd assume the mugger would mug the little guy- same as i dont belive my house alarm will 100% ensure i dont get burgled...but i would guess they'd go next door where there is no alarm first.

martial arts is the same as the ppl who keep the bat under the bed for when their car gets jacked off the driveway- it may make them better equiped to fight but in doing so also makes them better equiped to end up getting a slap.