RichWalk

South Brum/ Bosnia all the same these days SB

Tiggs

saxo boy- just wondering what happens if jamo mugs your teacher or vice versa?

LG John

I'm just amazed by the general attitude that no human exists to deal with some Aberdonian bully-basher ned with a knife and his girlfriend. When it comes to fighting it seems to be assumed that all men were created roughly equal

Lets switch our situation to talk about another disapline as an example: Our neds are just street neds and our martial arts instructor is now top of his profession which happens to be 100m running. What happens now??? The instructor wins every single time! He could fall over and get back up and still beat our neds over the 100m sprint. He isn't superhuman we've all seen sprinters pull up during a race but the gulf in ability between a 10s 100m sprinter and joe ned off the street is so vast that even with a head start he's still going to win nearly every single time.

Why is it assumed then that whilst Mr sprinter has spent 10 years of his life training to be a brilliant sprinter and is a natural sprinter on top of that that mr Martial art who has spent 10 years training and is naturally hard on top of that isn't well...........actually hard and well able to defend himself in the above situation???

Tiggs there are many techniques to deal with knife attack. Just the other week I was swinging a plastic knife (hard and fast) through different types of stab and slash at a brown belt who was learning them and he was very effective even at his very early stage. Any idiot can pick up a knife but that doesn't make them able to use it effectively. FWIW many of the techniques involve diverting the knife straight back into the attacker!

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

No.

but when I was serving in bugojna about 4 years ago, a guy placed a gun on my forehead.

surfice to say, im obviously alive, and he is very much dead.

please, I did say can we leave it there.

james

RichWalk

J4Mou- can I open an account at your bank?? Sounds like a safe place for me earnings

LG John

I assume jamo is trained in martial arts of some kind for a significant period of time which leads me back to the, 'it wouldn't happen' comment! People that do 10 years of martial arts generally learn respect along the way and do not go around mugging people in the same way all of the black belts I know keep themselves very much to themselves and never go looking for trouble. Martial arts aren't just about kicks and flips but about attitude, respect, honour, etc, etc, etc

Tiggs

saxo- i think the point is that the attacker is an unkown.

you could use linford christie in your 100m example couldnt you? well he better not get mugged by ben johnson then.

Tiggs

"Martial arts aren't just about kicks and flips but about attitude, respect, honour, etc, etc, etc"

hmmmm....wipe on wipe off, bit fluffy bunnies- im sure there are some criminals that do martial arts! in the films there always are!

LG John

100% agree but this is what I'm saying all along.....it VERY unlikely that someone with the training required to take such a martial arts expert on is going to be a) mugging anyone and b) the guy mugging you!!!

Its a bit like buying an Enzo or Macca F1. Sure there are cars out there that are faster but the chances of you ever in a lifetime of driving meeting one and being beat by it on the road are somewhat small.

angrynorth

What I want to know is what Mary J Blige has to do with this



Sorry to hear about your mugging mate

Tiggs

if i bought a ferrari i wouldnt gamble my life that the next car to pull up beside me would be slower.

£30 maybe....but not my life.

T

LG John

I didn't say a Ferrari - I said Enzo or Macca F1..............................world of difference as both these cars are very very quick from 0-180mph

LG John

I owned a 275bhp Scooby for 30k miles and only once got beaten on the road and that was by a 360 modena! I'd fancy to be as good as untouchable in a macca

scoobynutta555

I suggest you read 'Operation Certain Death'. Details the hostage rescue of British army soldiers by the SAS SBS and 1 Para.

Granted most special forces operations are generally observational with an emphasis on covertness, but in Sierra Leone, they engaged the West Side Boys ( 300-500 blokes with guns and pink shower caps on their heads ) by chopper and the whole thing went noist before they sat foot on the ground. They engaged en mass and were in a fire fight for several hours on the ground.

Think the overall ratio of defenders to attackers was 3:1, the given is the ratio the otherway around for an attacking force.

Not taking everything about this book to be true, but the author goes to great lengths to say as much as possible is true with extensive interviews of peops on the ground.

Obviously this all goes against special forces normal proceedure, but they carried it off.

the cookie monster

Sorry to hear about it dave.

I woud recommend in future to do what you did.

I have performed in several martial arts over about 6 years, all high impact and competed in amatuer competitions. i was a doorman at two big named clubs in the essex area, and i am 16.5 stone.

when i went to assist the two police officers that were getting a kick'in and nearly lost their lives. all of the above was about not to matter. as i was on my way to help i was attacked from behind, a knife was trust into my back, ripping its way trough my body tissue and into my lung, withdrawn and again my body was struck. i was given a beating, i got up, struck back and realised i had been stabbed. i realised then that there was 10 guys to fight. at this point i dont now if i was punched pulled or even dropped my self, to the ground. i took another beating. i was scared for my life. i was airlifted to hospital where i underwent an emergency operation as my other lung was having problems copping with its colapsed brother....

i was in hospital for two weeks, underwent physio, for 4 months due to damged muscle tissue and injurys to my back. i have 3 scars two from the knife and 1 from where A&E opened up my side to get to the lung and drain fluid and keep ithe lung inflated so i didn't die.

i scared the **** out of my family, when my mum was at A&E at 2.00am and she saw me arrive in a helicopter covered in blood, pipes every where. she fell to her knees crying her eyes out.

my girlfriend supported me for weeks while i recoverd, as we would not be going on the holiday as planned the day after i was stabbed.

i was not ur tipical steriotyped doorman. i was 22 at uni studying trying to earn money, keeping fit at the same time.

2 years on.

wish i had 30 quid to give them...

ozzy

scoobynutta555,

Even the Iranian embassy was handled differently. They simply overwhelmed the place with several small teams in one large planned attack. The point is every situation is different.

One guy who has years and years of weapons training is always going to stand a better chance than someone with the basic skills. The 300-500 guys in Sierra Leon probably fired thousans and thousands of rounds, but their accuracy would have been much lower than that of the Special Forces.

That's why part of any armed forces training not only involves accuracy, but the use of firepower. Laying down fire in certain ways can easily supress another force even if they are outnumbered.

Numbers count for one part, the other is the effective use of that firepower.

Anyway, there's no arguing that Special Forces are "special" for a reason, but it doesn't automatically mean they are invincible. The history books are full of dead opertives.

Stefan

ozzy

The problem is people believe too much in what they see in the Movies. Just watch some of the raw CCTV footage from your average drunken Friday/Saturday night and you'll see if any fancy fighting techniques wiould do you any favours.

Cookie Monsters experience is the ones you actually see too often these days. I still stand by the philosophy of avoiding the problem in the first place and to that end Dave did the right thing IMHO. It maybe pi$$ed him off, but he's unharmed and that's the main thing.

Just shrug it off and don't let it worry you. **** happens as they say.

Stefan

LG John

Cookie that is brutal mate but I have to ask why you got involved if there was a gang of 10-odd guys thumping into two other that are effectively no use (because they are already down). You were outnumbered 10 to 1 against armed aggressors thats the time to call in the army rather than try and physically help. Very sad story to read though Did the coppers survive?

LG John

I agree 110% and have done so all through this thread. All I did was challenge the notion that there isn't a human alive that could deal with an aberdonian pikey and his pikey girlfriend which is utter sh!te because such people do exist.

ajm

I think that, whilst the people advising no resistance have a very good argument, it still sets a dangerous precedant. The scummy element reading this will now know that only 5% of us would put up any resistance. As a result are they not more likely to offend knowing that?

I would resist as much as I could under the circumstances. That could range from nothing at all right up to.... well you get the picture.

imlach

...but we don't know what could have happened had he challenged them.....

Obviously HIGHLY unikely, but there could have been a man with a gun standing across the street - and there may be a human alive that could deal with the first two from the description we have, but not with the bullet, nor if both were highly proficient streetfighters

All I'm saying is that you cannot assume anything, and 1 man against 2 (even 1 on 1) is not a 100% certain outcome no matter WHO you are. I would have thought that'd be the first lesson in self-defence, ie, avoid having to defend if at all possible - 0 on 1 is FAR safer than 1 on 1.

the cookie monster

I got stabbed on the way. i was 20-30ft from the fight when stabbed, i had called my army but it was too late for me. i went because it was human nature, just like all our other hero's i thought i could pick a few off from around the edges, but i didn't even make it to that stage. coppers did make it. two other people who tried to help the coppers got stabbed too.

they brought me flowers though!!!

scoobynutta555

Ozzy, of course every situation is different, i was mainly picking up on one part of what you said, re "They don't just barge in and attack on mass."

According to the book, they just did exactly this, no covert option was possible as they had studied the situation in detail.

In the book the author made it clear this was by no way the SOP for special forces. Indeed a high percentage of special forces operation will result in no engaging of the 'enemy'. Also 2 members of the SAS died in a road crash on the way to the area, whilst one died in the fighting.

Just stating that this was a unique engagement for special forces.

LG John

Fooking hell so about 3 people were stabbed and two coppers very badly beaten. Let me guess.............they got 300 hours community service between them

Imlach being the sort of person to back down isn't always the best way mate. I suffered at the hands of bullies for all of my school life because I'd back down and I deeply regret this. Sometimes you just have to make a calculated risk (like all things in life....roulette ) and stand up for yourself and/or your family.

ozzy

Exactly. My own view is to avoid the situation, but if some scumbag has a go at me I'll decide at the time what action is best.

I've had a knife pressed in my stomach once. I was 17 and with a m8 when we were surrounded by 5 guys. One shoved a knife at me and demanded my money. Luckily my m8 clocked what was up and had a old glass cola bottle in his hand. I looked at him, he looked at me and I just nodded slightly. Next thing there's glass everywhere and the blokes at my feet with blood pouring out his head and I've smacked the next closest bloke to me.

Luckily for us his m8's were more shocked than us and just carried him off. It also help that my m8 was more of a headcase than me and was screaming like a feckin loon at them all.

Anyway all of us think we can handle ourselves, but until it actually happens you never know how you're gonna react. If the same thing happened to me tomorrow I might just think it's not worth the hassle and hand over my wallet. I very rarely carry any cash in it, can easily cancel some credit cards and they're more than welcome to my mobile as it **** anyway

Stefan

imlach

Backing down from bullies is generally different though in that I presume they were not threatning you with a knife at the time? ie, your life was not potentially on the line....?????

That is a one for a different thread.

Suffice to say, I'd hope these said bullies are now losers in life, and your life is far better now we're all adults. I think everyone has some bully at school they'd love to meet up with again now, and either smugly gloat over their sad life, or perhaps get some retribution (physical or mental) now you've had time to reflect.

LG John

One did jail time for armed robbery (with a replica ) of the chippy in Colinton Mains I doubt there are that many positives in the guys life!

imlach

What a loser - armed robbery in the same area he presumably grew up in. LMFAO Not much chance of being recognised/talk going round as to who did it....dumbo.

CupraT

....

scoobynutta555

Back on topic, Ive been stabbed before. Have a 6 inch scar across my face from a fight i was in when i was 18. not a nice experience. You did the right thing in handing over £30.

On the hardman/karate type arguement. There are some very hard as nails psycho types out there that just dont feel pain, and who know how to go the distance. Thats without adding drugs to the scenario. If youre going to take somebody like this on you better make sure they dont get up again.