J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I was asked whether 'I minded having my disabled mate get out of my Fiat Coupe, sort of spoils the image doesnt it'

Er no it doesnt, ffs sake every so called able bodied person has a disabled person waiting to come out given the right accident or disease. Do disabled people have to drive round in little blue 'Spas Chariot's' as children so charitably christened them, if they have the means why cant they have interesting cars ?

darlodge

Leslie,

Very well said Agree all the way

Darren

Spoon

Les- Bedhog made the comment but followed it with question marks implying it was open for discussion and not an attack.

He is only actually saying what I said when a similar thread surfaced months ago and has a very valid point concerning wheelchair occupants.

Of course if it was raining heavily then it wouldn't be viable unless you could actually exit your vehicle under cover, then make a dash when it makes sense to.

The main concern to a lot of wheelchair bound persons wanting to park is space and not necessarily proximity.

Amongst many forms of disability there are 2 main categories, those that can walk(albeit not far) and those that can't and require wheelchairs.

All the disabled bays are for both categories as a rule but very rarely you get wheelchair only bays in carparks, even then they are used by the walking disabled.

This is actually no different from an able bod taking a space intended for a disabled person really because whoever has filled it is stopping it from being used as it was intended.

It actually says that whoever parked in the space felt he/she's disability was important enough to do so. To them it may well be but if you can walk 2 steps in however much pain or discomfort, this to a wheelchair occupant is the equivalent to an orgasm, so conflicts and lack of respect amongst disabled people exist too.

The main problem with the disabled bays to an able bodied person is that they feel they are being told they are less important. They get all macho and think that they are showing authority by flouting the "law", when in actual fact they are making themselves look like children. They are also blatantly lazy and do not understand what a privilege it is to still have full mobility.

So, rather than have all just "disabled bays" there should be "wheelchair only" bays allocated as well.

I'll tell you what, if they were'nt right at the front of the stores then I bet they wouldn't be used by able bodied individuals but a lot of wheelchair users would be able to actually park with ease.

Not such a bad idea after all hey Les?

lone wolf

When I approached the local council for a disabled bay outside where I used to live, they duly came to do it one warm sunny day...the lads knocked on my door to let me know that my car, the turbo Supra, was too long for a normal bay and that they would have to go back to base and get permission to paint a longer than normal one...for which there would be a significant charge to me....

I told them to quit being stupid and just paint the fecking bay around my car and go away.....they did...and I got a bill for £200 for 'an extended disabled bay due to an inappropriate car'....I will not type what I told the council as it could well offend....the bill was cancelled, without an apology.

wrxsmo

I can't believe some of the replies that I've just read in this thread ........

The way I see it is that if your not disabled then you do not park in the disabled bays & if you haven't got a young child with you then you do not park in the M&B bays.

Spoon

Unfortunately that's too idealistic though isn't it?

wrxsmo

Not for me

Spoon

A fully paid up member of the dying breed club.

Stueyb

Heres something to lighten the mood. At work we have a few disabled spaces and no one parks in them ever, at all. Why ? Because my company saw fit to put the disabled parking at the end of the carpark at the bottom of the hill, whist normal staff carpark was on a flat level with the building so basically the disabled had a huge hike ! I dont think it was meant to end up like that but someone f*cked up along the way.

Spoon

Well that kind of backs my point up doesn't it albeit a little extreme.

Still, parking would be easy, the journey into the building less easy put possible.

logiclee

When Lorraine isn't in the car I obviously don't use disabled bays, I usually park at the far end of the car park.

Why do I park there?.....

a, Less chance of getting door dings

and

b, I can walk the 100 yards from the car to the building without any pain or discomfort and every step I can thank God that I can.

Cheers
Lee

Spoon

Lee- Do you park away and walk because you have experience of what it's like to not be able to walk far without difficulty or would you do that anyway, regardless?

Or is it primarily because you don't want car dings maybe?

Leslie

Spoon,

I have to say I don't agree with your logic. The disabled slots are there for two reasons, one as you say to keep slots free for the disabled ,and two to make life easier for them since it is a shorter distance to cover. Wheelchairs or not, the disabled spend their lives at a disadvantage and why then should they be made to travel further for the convenience of those who don't have a problem.

As far as those selfish people are concerned when they use the disabled parking slots when they are not entitled, they should be regarded as lazy and unprincipled "oiks" and are worthy only of derision.

I was once forced to park behind a man who had parked his car in a disabled slot all night. When I returned he had informed the police and I was the one who was threatened with prosecution for obstruction even though they knew he was not entitled. This was in spite of being told by a traffic warden to park there. I was not impressed at that attitude! I was eventually able to shame the copper into backing down though.

I often get the sideways looks when I get out of my Scooby too, its as though they think a disabled person is not entitled to drive a good car.

Les

Spoon

Les, if the spaces are continually taken up by able bodied people because they are close to the store then that isn't making life for the wheelchair user easier.

On the other hand if you had wider spaces further away that were not abused then at least a wheelchair user could park, first and foremost.

Yes the run in to the store would be a little more inconvenient but wheels move easier than a disabled walker who could remain closer to the store.

Even the walking disabled have in my experience little knowledge of how much more difficult it is to actually park when you need to exit via a wheelchair.

At least as a disabled walker you may not always require your door to open fully therefore you can make do with a standard bay albeit with difficulty, a wheelchair user doesn't have that option.

You also can't just drop a wheelchair user off at the door, park up and join him/her without a long hold-up. You certainly can't do that if the wheelchair user is the driver!!

Unpopular sited bays is the way to allow a wheelchair user freedom to park, although I'm sure the size of them will still attract the drivers who like the fact their cars are safer from dings.

So, bay watch is required minus David Hasselhoff.

logiclee

Probably 50/50 really, I'll always try and park the car where it's safe but when Lorraine is with me we are very restricted to how far we can walk.
When I'm on my own I sometimes park the opposite side of Town to where I want to be so I can have a walk through town which is something I can't do when we are together. When you have limits placed on your life you tend to make the most when the limits are lifted. Even if there are plenty of "Safe" spaces nearer the supermaket entrance I'll park at the back and have a walk. I'm usually in the supermaket far quicker than those trying to squeeze in the front spaces so it's not quicker. I do all our shopping on my own now as it causes Lorraine too much discomfort.
Over the past two to three years Lorraine has been getting worse so we are borderline thinking of getting her a buggy of somesort. This is a big step to Lorraine as it's a bit like admitting defeat to her. It would also mean I would need a car big enough to stick the buggy in the back.

Cheers
Lee

dba

F1

I am sure you are right to be annoyed,but you would have been more annoyed had they done nothing,its great that they are trying to police these things.I ask my staff to do the same,and they get abused on a daily basis,one even got nutted 2 weeks ago.Its just impossible to police these things nowadays,unless the retailer owns the carpark and they are prepared to clamp.(often rented and the carpark companies are usually subbed into nothing so they hire one bloke to cover 400,00 sq ft of tarmac)But clamp one little old lady who forgot her badge and you are straight onto the front pages of the local rags

f1

DBA, the 'little old lady' scenario is what the thread is about. They get ignored whether they display a badge or not. It's exactly like others have said, why are the young that drive nice cars not allowed to be disabled. I don't disagree with 'policing' of the car parks, but why ignore older people and pick on the younger driver. Being disabled is not good at the best of times. But when you have an arguement twice in 2 weeks outside the shop and every shopper stops to hear and see what's going on is not what I want. The guy Friday admitted to me he saw the other bloke last week talking to me. Instead of 'pouncing' on people if it were me I would wait and see if a badge was displayed. I am not one of those people who displays my badge 24 -7 for all to see. In fact it's rare I use it on double yellow lines or anything. All I would suggest to these 'bay watch' people is be patient, don't judge because a young person is driving they can't be disabled. They will come back to the car at some point, and when they do ask them then, don't go 'embarassing people' or whatever because they don't appear to be disabled. The main problem is with most people they are blind to the needs of the disabled. I find it's only those that know a disabled person who can truly understand the day to day needs of such things as a more convenient place to park. I would GLADLY swap my disability ANY day of the week to become able bodied again, especially those who feel we get government hand outs just like that, but alas it's not gonna happen. Therefore I think WE should all try and be more courteous and show respect for other people. Treat others as we would like to be treated. That way every one is a winner.

On another note, instead of moving spaces here there and everywhere, why not just make them all a bit bigger, with stores being open all hours now there will never be a time that the whole car park is busy to the point you can't park.

Please just show some consideration for those less fortunate than ourselves.

Steve

Spoon

Lee- That's so true, if people do park almost immediately and walk a little further then the odds are they will arrive at the shop front quicker than those that have driven further and tried to park nearer.

If the carpark is busy the drivers hunting for the front spaces will encounter queues, cars negotiating in and out of spaces etc to slow them down.

That's another reason why they park in the disabled spaces because they think that they can creep in unnoticed, and usually there will be at least one empty space available for them to do so.

The nice car/youngster problem has been around for years but in any situation if you are apprehended then it can only be a good thing.

It's almost like being stopped by the police so they can check if you own the car, inconvenient maybe but reassuring also if it ever was to be stolen.

The abuse these carpark attendants get is staggering and all usually for the minimum wage, ask yourself is it really worth it?

Whilst the countries moral standards are in a steady decline I can't see a great deal of change occuring, shameful but real.

In 20 years of studying changes I haven't seen anything to shout about.

I never forget talking to a hotel owner who was so proud of his "disabled friendly" room that he had expensively adapted.

On inspection it was a great room, only I pointed out that the 6 inch step out on to the patio wasn't going to be easy as wasn't the gravel drive leading from the carpark to the hotel.

His answer was, although he agreed, staff would be on hand to help which totally misses the point of a disabled persons endeavour for independance.

I shan't bore you with others but a lot is needed in terms of work, the sad thing is 80% of the work is easily implemented if the majority of people stopped thinking about themselves as much.

imlach

I assume there are such things as "disabled needs consultants" who could go round and point out the obvious?

I have to admit though, the example of the gravel would be something I'd probably not think of unless I actually got in a wheelchair and tried to get around...but such an obvious thing ONCE you know.

Spoon

Imlach- Nice of you to say you wouldn't think of it.

If nothing else, you do now so it can't be a bad thing.

The so-called consultants unfortunately are often not in wheelchairs themselves so it can be a pointless post.

There are groups and such like that do from time to time get consulted but often too late.

f1

I actually work for a company that provides a service working with the town councils researching disabled access all over the country. Hopefully the DDA being brought in in October this year will make a difference. It's surprising how busy our access advisor is, he's rushed off of his feet at the moment. I can't walk into a shop, restaurant or anything now without looking for problems !!! Damned job !! But I love it 'cos I'm helping people like myself get out and about.

One I will never forget was a similar experience to Spoons, they were really proud they had a ramped access to the building. But..............it was a VERY steep slope to the door, and the door opened outwards, V difficult for a wheelchair user.

Steve

dba

the DDA is already causing problems,rather than helping the genuinely disabled,its got companies in a dither when trying to decide who is covered by it,those off work on long term sick are getting protection,i dont know whether this is a good thing tbh,but i suspect it may not help the genuinely disabled

f1

'tis true, I know our guy says there are so many different sections that are relevant and some that aren't. I guess at least they are 'trying' to make a difference anyway. Must say though I don't do that part of it, I'm the office guy !!

Leslie

In actual fact Spoon, it is quite difficult and painful to get out of the car unless the door will open fully. I bet that will apply to most disabled who can nevertheless walk a bit, especially for the elderly.

The answer to those able bodied creeps who park in the disabled slots is to punish them significantly. Clamping with the heavy release charge is the easiest way. It is a matter of the carpark owners taking some responsibilty for that. Selfish people like that deserve the "treatment".

Would you say that it would also be a good idea to put all the Mother and Child slots at the far end of the carpark too Spoon?

Les

Spoon

Les- In your case and in many other peoples cases it may well although I've seen plenty of blue badge holders exit their vehicles like so many able bodied people can.(assuming it's their badge in the first place).

I agree they should, just like they do in the USA where the problem of unauthorised parking doesn't exist.

Of course not as children are a danger to themselves let alone others. The nearer the stores they are the better.
A parent has actually got a harder job with children once they are out of the vehicle than a wheelchair user presents, assuming the carparks are flat.

Again, the wheelchair users difficulty lies with actually being able to park and get out.

Leslie

I thought that the M&C slots were to enable parents to get the wheelchairs and prams out Spoon! Isn't that why they have large parking spaces? Probably easier for them to push the wheelchairs across the carpark than for a disabled person after they have struggled to get a much heavier wheelchair out and get into it. Should not make any difference for children old enough to walk and they would be just as dangerous close to the store as any. Less traffic farther away from the store.

Usually the farther some of them are away from the store,the better, like at home!

Les

Spoon

Les- The parent and toddler spaces are indeed wider for a number of reasons, to allow the door to open fully whilst you stretch in to release a child seat, to create space for a pushchair and to allow other children you may have in the vehicle to stand safer. As for parents to get out wheelchairs then I disagree, the disabled bays are for that.

If a wheelchair user/driver gets his own wheelchair out you can bet it's no heavier than 22lbs and in most cases as light as 14lbs, and is quite capable of pushing across a carpark far easier than a parent negotiating say a baby in a carseat plus a 2 year old.

The heavy wheelchairs are for the "part-time" chair users and are usually accompanied by a pusher (not drugs) so as long as the pusher is fit there shouldn't be no problem.

I fail to see how children are as dangerous close to a store as they would be walking through an entire carpark? You say less traffic further away, well yes but you then have to walk to and through the busy traffic.

Anyway, the parent and toddler issue is clouding the original thread and doesn't concern the disabled parking problem.

Have a few wheelchair only bays sited in a less attractive area and leave the majority of disabled bays for the walking wounded and charlatans near the store to keep everyone happy.

Again I will say that a wheelchair users biggest problem is just parking. People who have never encountered this cannot even begin to think what it must be like to turn up somewhere and be a prisoner in your own vehicle, simply because you cannot get out because everywhere is full.

This isn't melodramatic, this is fact.

logiclee

You missed the severly disabled and terminally ill from that statement.

Spoon

Lee- ok, to clarify it, under the walking wounded I would have placed the terminally ill, not to belittle their condition but to attempt to seperate them from otherwise relatively well wheelchair users.

The severly disabled were accounted for and can choose either bay as I'd call a quadraplegic, paraplegic, spina bifada etc, just that. These disabilities can often travel further than other disabilities and would be happy to given a chance to park everytime without hassle.

In an ideal world of course the nearer the stores the better for every disability but we live in shítdom unfortunately.

logiclee

If you had called my wife "Walking Wounded" I would expect you to receive a slap in the face.


We attend a disabled support group once a week and some of the stories of able bodied peoples ignorance and intollerence are astounding for a modern educated society.

Lorraine does need the door fully open to get in and out of as well as assistance the some of the time.

I had to sell my Scoob because Lorraine couldn't get out of the seats and the hard ride was causing her discomfort. That's just a very small part of what we have given up.
The chance of having a family, a social life, holidays abroad etc. etc.
But we get to park at the front.

Lee