My Eyes have Been Opened
18 April 2004, 09:29 AM
#31
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LOL @ all of you guys trying to compare a £30k BMW to a £18k WRX.
The two cars are like chalk and cheese, no one can say that one is better than the other because they are so different.
The fully loaded BMW is great for long distance and the engine is bullet proof, the WRX is not so great on the motorways.
On B roads the WRX is king, the BMW not so good and so on...
Personally if I were in a position to afford a 330D I'd have one over a WRX any day of the week purely based on the luxury levels inside the cabin.
If the Japanese could build cars to the same quality as BMW I'd think the price of the Impreza would go up considerably.
The two cars are like chalk and cheese, no one can say that one is better than the other because they are so different.
The fully loaded BMW is great for long distance and the engine is bullet proof, the WRX is not so great on the motorways.
On B roads the WRX is king, the BMW not so good and so on...
Personally if I were in a position to afford a 330D I'd have one over a WRX any day of the week purely based on the luxury levels inside the cabin.
If the Japanese could build cars to the same quality as BMW I'd think the price of the Impreza would go up considerably.
18 April 2004, 09:35 AM
#32
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[QUOTE=Danny B]LOL @ all of you guys trying to compare a £30k BMW to a £18k WRX.
QUOTE]
I thought in the original post he was comparing a WR1 to a 330D. Since when is a WR1 only £18K or have I missed some heavy price cutting by Subaru in the last few weeks!!!
QUOTE]
I thought in the original post he was comparing a WR1 to a 330D. Since when is a WR1 only £18K or have I missed some heavy price cutting by Subaru in the last few weeks!!!
18 April 2004, 09:56 AM
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quote
If you can get a car with mainteance pack then you get 60K miles worth of everything apart from tyres included as well. The service intervals are also the better part of 20K miles.
does 'maintainence pack' only come with -when buying new??
If you can get a car with mainteance pack then you get 60K miles worth of everything apart from tyres included as well. The service intervals are also the better part of 20K miles.
does 'maintainence pack' only come with -when buying new??
18 April 2004, 11:39 AM
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ok I have a 323 and a P1 and here are the differences
BMW has far better build quality and interior comfort.
P1 is faster, handles better.
If you want a motorway cruiser the BMW is the one to have, driving fun and grin factor go for the Scoob.
Having said that if I was going to get a new WR1 I would get a second hand M3 instead.
I would just like to point out that there are a lot of BMW drivers on the road, therefore there are more to55ers driving them, If you look at the number of scooby owners the "TO55ER per total number of drivers percentage" is IMHO higher.
BMW has far better build quality and interior comfort.
P1 is faster, handles better.
If you want a motorway cruiser the BMW is the one to have, driving fun and grin factor go for the Scoob.
Having said that if I was going to get a new WR1 I would get a second hand M3 instead.
I would just like to point out that there are a lot of BMW drivers on the road, therefore there are more to55ers driving them, If you look at the number of scooby owners the "TO55ER per total number of drivers percentage" is IMHO higher.
18 April 2004, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by J1nxy
Hi 6 pot
Having come from a 99MY Turbo that had been mildly tuned I think I can comment on the 330D Sport as thats what I now own.
In terms of out right performance the Scooby was better, and no doubt a WR1 would be as well, but the gap is closer than a lot of people would think. If, like me you do a lot of motorway miles the BMW is a much nicer place to be. I have a manual car and it rarely comes out of 6th unless I want to accelerate very rapidly, but 6th is good enough most of the time. With the criuse control on it easily returns 43mpg+ at around 80.
The steering is every bit as good as the Scooby and ride quality is significantly better even with the 18" sports wheels and sports suspension.
There are 2 variants of the engine the older 184bhp version and the new 204bhp version. The new engine comes with a 6 speed manaul box which is pretty good as well. If you fancy a bit more power for around £300 you can put a tuning box on it which takes the 204bhp car to 245bhp and 490nm...
If you can get a car with mainteance pack then you get 60K miles worth of everything apart from tyres included as well. The service intervals are also the better part of 20K miles.
Steve
Having come from a 99MY Turbo that had been mildly tuned I think I can comment on the 330D Sport as thats what I now own.
In terms of out right performance the Scooby was better, and no doubt a WR1 would be as well, but the gap is closer than a lot of people would think. If, like me you do a lot of motorway miles the BMW is a much nicer place to be. I have a manual car and it rarely comes out of 6th unless I want to accelerate very rapidly, but 6th is good enough most of the time. With the criuse control on it easily returns 43mpg+ at around 80.
The steering is every bit as good as the Scooby and ride quality is significantly better even with the 18" sports wheels and sports suspension.
There are 2 variants of the engine the older 184bhp version and the new 204bhp version. The new engine comes with a 6 speed manaul box which is pretty good as well. If you fancy a bit more power for around £300 you can put a tuning box on it which takes the 204bhp car to 245bhp and 490nm...
If you can get a car with mainteance pack then you get 60K miles worth of everything apart from tyres included as well. The service intervals are also the better part of 20K miles.
Steve
Steve,
Many thanks for an honest answer, as it happens the car that I am looking at is the 330D Sport on 18"s with 204 bhp and will be covered by a 60000 mile or 5 year service package, your mpg figures make interesting reading, certainly a lot better than the 19 mpg I get out of the scoob.
I went out for the test drive with 5 people in the car and it felt like it would pull the side of a house down from about 1700 rpm, so I can only assume that riding solo it would be good fun.
Many Thanks
Mark
18 April 2004, 12:35 PM
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6 pot ... performance, luxury and fun-factor, it is almost obscene. if you can get a good one you can afford, why the hell not ? The best part for me is RWD!
18 April 2004, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by prana
6 pot ... performance, luxury and fun-factor, it is almost obscene. if you can get a good one you can afford, why the hell not ? The best part for me is RWD!
18 April 2004, 12:45 PM
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Mark,
Make the move to BMW and you won't regret it. Everything Steve says is true, and whilst some 3 series (mainly 318 rep-mobiles) do give us a bad name, you'll be very very happy to be owning such a beautifully put together beast.
Satisfaction of ownership is the main thing. Coupled to the realistic service cost and intervals and you're away. The maintanence package is a great idea. I suspect that the resale value of the 330d will be better percentage wise than a WR1.
I'm onto my 3rd 330d Sport now and it has more steering feel than any Subaru I've owned or driven, and that includes STI 5, Std UK Turbo, WRX, 22B etc. Those people that think the BMW's steering is like porridge haven't driven the latest versions. It also easily keeps up with Subarus in the wet, and they really don't like that! LOL
My only final thought is that the BMW will be way easier to live with, as it's essentially less desirable to the thieving chav-scum that will go all out to have a WR1 as a prize. You'll enjoy the ownership experience, and doing twice the mile per gallon is just an added bonus!
Matt
Make the move to BMW and you won't regret it. Everything Steve says is true, and whilst some 3 series (mainly 318 rep-mobiles) do give us a bad name, you'll be very very happy to be owning such a beautifully put together beast.
Satisfaction of ownership is the main thing. Coupled to the realistic service cost and intervals and you're away. The maintanence package is a great idea. I suspect that the resale value of the 330d will be better percentage wise than a WR1.
I'm onto my 3rd 330d Sport now and it has more steering feel than any Subaru I've owned or driven, and that includes STI 5, Std UK Turbo, WRX, 22B etc. Those people that think the BMW's steering is like porridge haven't driven the latest versions. It also easily keeps up with Subarus in the wet, and they really don't like that! LOL
My only final thought is that the BMW will be way easier to live with, as it's essentially less desirable to the thieving chav-scum that will go all out to have a WR1 as a prize. You'll enjoy the ownership experience, and doing twice the mile per gallon is just an added bonus!
Matt
18 April 2004, 12:59 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by MattOz
Mark,
Make the move to BMW and you won't regret it. Everything Steve says is true, and whilst some 3 series (mainly 318 rep-mobiles) do give us a bad name, you'll be very very happy to be owning such a beautifully put together beast.
Satisfaction of ownership is the main thing. Coupled to the realistic service cost and intervals and you're away. The maintanence package is a great idea. I suspect that the resale value of the 330d will be better percentage wise than a WR1.
I'm onto my 3rd 330d Sport now and it has more steering feel than any Subaru I've owned or driven, and that includes STI 5, Std UK Turbo, WRX, 22B etc. Those people that think the BMW's steering is like porridge haven't driven the latest versions. It also easily keeps up with Subarus in the wet, and they really don't like that! LOL
My only final thought is that the BMW will be way easier to live with, as it's essentially less desirable to the thieving chav-scum that will go all out to have a WR1 as a prize. You'll enjoy the ownership experience, and doing twice the mile per gallon is just an added bonus!
Matt
Make the move to BMW and you won't regret it. Everything Steve says is true, and whilst some 3 series (mainly 318 rep-mobiles) do give us a bad name, you'll be very very happy to be owning such a beautifully put together beast.
Satisfaction of ownership is the main thing. Coupled to the realistic service cost and intervals and you're away. The maintanence package is a great idea. I suspect that the resale value of the 330d will be better percentage wise than a WR1.
I'm onto my 3rd 330d Sport now and it has more steering feel than any Subaru I've owned or driven, and that includes STI 5, Std UK Turbo, WRX, 22B etc. Those people that think the BMW's steering is like porridge haven't driven the latest versions. It also easily keeps up with Subarus in the wet, and they really don't like that! LOL
My only final thought is that the BMW will be way easier to live with, as it's essentially less desirable to the thieving chav-scum that will go all out to have a WR1 as a prize. You'll enjoy the ownership experience, and doing twice the mile per gallon is just an added bonus!
Matt
This how forums should be.
18 April 2004, 01:58 PM
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my wifes got a 99 535, the only thing that lets it down is its steering, doesnt turn in that well, lack of feel, thinking of changing my sti for a s/h m5 next year, was hoping it will be different in the steering dept to the 535, havnt test driven one yet
mark
mark
18 April 2004, 02:54 PM
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Mark,
I had a 2000 E39 M5 and my current 330d has much better steering feel and weight. Even in Sport mode the M5 lacked a little something. IIRC the steering rack on the 3 series was changed in late 2001 for something that's more direct and gives better feedback.
Matt
I had a 2000 E39 M5 and my current 330d has much better steering feel and weight. Even in Sport mode the M5 lacked a little something. IIRC the steering rack on the 3 series was changed in late 2001 for something that's more direct and gives better feedback.
Matt
18 April 2004, 03:25 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by MattOz
Mark,
I'm onto my 3rd 330d Sport now and it has more steering feel than any Subaru I've owned or driven, and that includes STI 5, Std UK Turbo, WRX, 22B etc.
Matt
I'm onto my 3rd 330d Sport now and it has more steering feel than any Subaru I've owned or driven, and that includes STI 5, Std UK Turbo, WRX, 22B etc.
Matt
18 April 2004, 04:40 PM
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Why, oh why, oh why, are all these people going on about how Scoobs have great handling and steering 
Lets face some facts here - Scoobs have average handling and steering at best. What they do have, to make up for a lack of handling and grip is FANTASTIC grip!!! Which more than compensates for the average ability of the drivers behind the wheel.
In reality a standard Scoob, Spec C excepted, has very average handling and poor steering feel. This can be improved hugely by various modifications. But even compared to an Evo they understeer like a major understeering thing, just compare cornering stances of the two on any Clarkson video. Just remember the last haripin you tried to corner on track. Lock, lock and more lock!
Then drive a Pork, BMW, Elise, VX, Noble, or anything similar and tell me how good the steering and handling are in a Scoob
Flame suit on and coat sleeves at the ready
Rannoch
Lets face some facts here - Scoobs have average handling and steering at best. What they do have, to make up for a lack of handling and grip is FANTASTIC grip!!! Which more than compensates for the average ability of the drivers behind the wheel.
In reality a standard Scoob, Spec C excepted, has very average handling and poor steering feel. This can be improved hugely by various modifications. But even compared to an Evo they understeer like a major understeering thing, just compare cornering stances of the two on any Clarkson video. Just remember the last haripin you tried to corner on track. Lock, lock and more lock!
Then drive a Pork, BMW, Elise, VX, Noble, or anything similar and tell me how good the steering and handling are in a Scoob
Flame suit on and coat sleeves at the ready
Rannoch
18 April 2004, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 6 pot
Got a WR 1 on order, but not happy with the dealer is keeping me in the dark. thinking of canceling. 
Sick of WRX need a change, drove a BMW 330D Sport today Wow!! Loads of torque and much more driveable than a WRX, your thoughts please.
Oh and 40mpg
Sick of WRX need a change, drove a BMW 330D Sport today Wow!! Loads of torque and much more driveable than a WRX, your thoughts please.
Oh and 40mpg
The vast majority of people will tell you that the Subaru dealers are hopeless when compared to the dealers for other makes. It just seems to be something you have to put up with.
If mpg is an issue, why have you not always stuck to diesels ? You must know you cannot beat them for economy ?
Have you cancelled the WR1 yet ?
18 April 2004, 06:07 PM
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Rannoch firmly hits the nail on the head! Thanks for putting the point across so well. However, I don't believe that the blinkered Subaristi will understand how a BMW can handle and feel better than a Subaru though. I'm happy in the knowledge that I've tried both and know the difference
Fidd,
Don't think that the mpg was the issue. I think that Mark has just found out that thankfully there are better cars out there than Subarus, and what amazes and galls Impreza owners is that one of them is a 3 series diesel!
Certainly they're not as quick in a straight line as a WR1, but they run a UK WRX close. My 330d certainly has more power at the wheels than a WRX, and uses it very nicely given the limited rev range.
The BMW and the Subaru are totally different drives and both reward the driver in different ways. It's just that I've found that the return on the Subaru (any Subaru) is not worth the input both physically, mentally and financially that you have to make. The BMW is way superior.
Matt
Thanks for putting the point across so well. However, I don't believe that the blinkered Subaristi will understand how a BMW can handle and feel better than a Subaru though. I'm happy in the knowledge that I've tried both and know the difference Fidd,
Don't think that the mpg was the issue. I think that Mark has just found out that thankfully there are better cars out there than Subarus, and what amazes and galls Impreza owners is that one of them is a 3 series diesel!
Certainly they're not as quick in a straight line as a WR1, but they run a UK WRX close. My 330d certainly has more power at the wheels than a WRX, and uses it very nicely given the limited rev range.
The BMW and the Subaru are totally different drives and both reward the driver in different ways. It's just that I've found that the return on the Subaru (any Subaru) is not worth the input both physically, mentally and financially that you have to make. The BMW is way superior.
Matt
Last edited by MattOz; 18 April 2004 at 06:10 PM.
18 April 2004, 08:46 PM
#53
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I have 3 friends with 330's 2 x 1 year old and one new. One is US spec, one UK and one LHD EU. To be honest all three have had build quality issues, the US one has sent more time at the dealership that on his drive and the last time I drove the LHD one in France bits of roof lining and door casing surround ware falling on me!
Having said all that, they are actually quite nice to drive and they do have reasonable steering response (until you drive an E30 M3 then you realise that it could be soo much better) they have nice torque and are not too slow in a kind of heavy way.
At the end of the day, it does not really matter, if you fancy a change, go for it
Me? I would not want any BMW that did not have that little “M” badge lol and probably the LHD E30 version at that
Cheers
Simon
BTW - I also agree about Scooby steering, DCCD-A helps it, more caster (a' la spec C) helps it too but at the end of the day it has drive going through the front so it's never going to be an Elise or even a E30 M3. The electronics just mask the drive effect, see Evo from "5" on for detail.
Scooby's are great, I own one for G*d's sake! But loose the rose tinted shades...
Having said all that, they are actually quite nice to drive and they do have reasonable steering response (until you drive an E30 M3 then you realise that it could be soo much better) they have nice torque and are not too slow in a kind of heavy way.
At the end of the day, it does not really matter, if you fancy a change, go for it
Me? I would not want any BMW that did not have that little “M” badge lol and probably the LHD E30 version at that
Cheers
Simon
BTW - I also agree about Scooby steering, DCCD-A helps it, more caster (a' la spec C) helps it too but at the end of the day it has drive going through the front so it's never going to be an Elise or even a E30 M3. The electronics just mask the drive effect, see Evo from "5" on for detail.
Scooby's are great, I own one for G*d's sake! But loose the rose tinted shades...
Last edited by Simon Lines; 18 April 2004 at 09:10 PM.
18 April 2004, 09:42 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Fidd
Think you just got the wrong car for yourself to start with m8.
The vast majority of people will tell you that the Subaru dealers are hopeless when compared to the dealers for other makes. It just seems to be something you have to put up with.
If mpg is an issue, why have you not always stuck to diesels ? You must know you cannot beat them for economy ?
Have you cancelled the WR1 yet ?
The vast majority of people will tell you that the Subaru dealers are hopeless when compared to the dealers for other makes. It just seems to be something you have to put up with.
If mpg is an issue, why have you not always stuck to diesels ? You must know you cannot beat them for economy ?
Have you cancelled the WR1 yet ?
Not cancelled the WR1 yet, still in the land of decisions, mpg is not much of an issue, its just that coming out of a roundabout onto a section of dual carriageway I had my **** wooped my a 330d
and it made me think why am I doing less than 20mpg with lots of noise and little luxury, when in fact I could do it with more refinement and much reduced fuel bills, I plan to do 20k miles over the next year, as follows:Average Mpg WRX 19 = 4776 litres @ £0.849 per litre = £4054
Average MPG 330D 40 = 2270 litres @ £0.79 per litre =£1793
Also take into account that in 20000 miles the scoob,if I go for the WR1 would need 4 services + lots of tyres and brakes, even in the wrx it would need 2 services 2 lots of brake pads and tyres.
With the saving that I make I could have a free holiday in the caribean every year.
18 April 2004, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Simon Lines
Me? I would not want any BMW that did not have that little “M” badge lol and probably the LHD E30 version at that
......
Scooby's are great, I own one for G*d's sake! But loose the rose tinted shades...
......
Scooby's are great, I own one for G*d's sake! But loose the rose tinted shades...
just read an amusing bmw forum thread as to why bmw m cars will never have awd - apparently rwd is better 
18 April 2004, 09:47 PM
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Fidd,
I've had a UK 2000 Turbo and then an STI5 Type R V-ltd. I've also done a few thousand miles in a 22B. They were all great cars, but the outlay wasn't worth the reward. Simple.
Matt
I've had a UK 2000 Turbo and then an STI5 Type R V-ltd. I've also done a few thousand miles in a 22B. They were all great cars, but the outlay wasn't worth the reward. Simple.
Matt
18 April 2004, 09:52 PM
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Geldy,
RWD is better than AWD if you're a purist. But you believe of course, that AWD must be better as it's on a Scooby. Show me the AWD F1 cars, Indy cars, Le Mans cars, etc. AWD is great for Rally cars, but hasn't really shone outside that arena, Skyline aside (JGTC and VLN 24hours)
Matt
RWD is better than AWD if you're a purist. But you believe of course, that AWD must be better as it's on a Scooby. Show me the AWD F1 cars, Indy cars, Le Mans cars, etc. AWD is great for Rally cars, but hasn't really shone outside that arena, Skyline aside (JGTC and VLN 24hours)
Matt
18 April 2004, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MattOz
Geldy,
Show me the AWD F1 cars, Indy cars, Le Mans cars, etc.
Matt
Show me the AWD F1 cars, Indy cars, Le Mans cars, etc.
Matt
I believe some teams have investigated it, and whether or not the weight would make it viable, the FIA decided not to allow it.