the moose

Rather strangely, people who work with and for me think of me as being direct to the point of brutality; naive is not something I've been accused of for many a year.

As for my views, tell me (seriously) what's so naive about taking people as I find them, disliking them because I have a problem with their personality rather than their skin colour, and promoting employees based on ability rather than race or gender. If people do discriminate on these bases, then surely it's because they're just stupid? This goes just as much for black versus white as the other way, which is every bit as unacceptable. And, in fact, I've fired someone for making racist comments (made by an Anglo-Indian employee about an Anglo-Caribbean employee).

As for Ron; sorry, but bringing in "******" is a racial slur in almost any circumstance (ignore the rappers - two wrongs and all that). If he'd said that Desailly was useless, we'd all have agreed. If he'd said that Torty the Tortoise would have outrun him, we'd have applauded. But what he said? Sorry, but there's no excuse for it in my book.

RichWalk

FB you are correct about context, however in that case Ron thought he was off air and his job was completed, if someone overheard you making a similar daft statement as you left work, would you expect the reception this guy has received?

Duck_Pond

Political Correctness is wrong at the moment too. But the people running it are too limp-wristed to accept it. Fact is, it is full of double standards, and a great deal of people are too gullible or naive to realise that.

Someone mentions a word, the PC Brigade look at who has said it, and judge them on how they interpret the situation, without using any common sense.

Big Ron is white, and has used the term "******", hence he must be a racist. MC Coolman Rapper (made up) uses the term "******" in a rap tune, and isn't deeded to be racist, because he, himself is black. How can that not be double standards?

As with many comments made in life, it depends on how you personnally interpret them. People are offended by the term "******", but so are others by words as crude as "c**t", "f**k" and "w**ker". Deeply religious people are offended to hear their Lord's name uttered in anger, but currently, the PC brigade aren't worried about them.

Freedom of speech is an accepted way of life here in the UK. One wonders when that liberty will be revoked by these do-gooders and their overly sensitive ways...

MooseRacer

I have to say I don't think this is PC brigade gone mad. PC gone mad is children not being able to sing 'ba ba black sheep' and the like.

Using such a derogatory term as Ron did is wrong (doesn't automatically make him racist though). PC has nothing to do with it.

RichWalk

Moose ; as stated previously I think your views are admirable, I try to operate in the same way myself both in and out of work. My comments were adressed at your failure to see what goes on around us even today, nothing more.

Rich

the moose

DP

He's got the freedom to use the word (not being prosecuted for it, is he?) but also has to bear responsibility for the use of that word.

I've heard him say some stuff (not on TV, said in my own personal earshot) which confirms that this was not a one-off. He probably means no harm, but I'm convinced he thinks black people are to be tolerated but no more.

fatherpierre

He was a crap commentator, anyway LOL.

the moose

Rich, take your point, but what I said was that I can't understand how someone can ethnicaly discriminate. And I can't. I accept that this happens, but am at a loss to explain it.

One bloke I sacked (I know, I do a lot of it) is Anglo-Pakistani - he tried to make out that there was a racial angle to it, because it was clearly more acceptable to him to believe that then any possibility that (as was the case) that he was a lazy sod. So I understand that people believe there's racism where none is intended; also, there are others who are way too lily-livered, and let rubbish employees get away with stuff purely because they're from an ethnic minority.

Duck_Pond

Not gone mad, no, I agree. But the way the poor bloke is being hounded is ridiculous quite frankly. It is a derogatory term, but is commonly used in films and by racists, just as the term "Paki" is.

By the way, has Desailly commented on the situation yet, or is he still gutted at putting in such a lazy performance? (Along with a few other Chelsea players in the second half, like Lampard too).

ProperCharlie

B2Z - whether you agree with it or not (and i know that you don't ) ******** is widely considered to be a racist word. it is a word that is intended to denigrate the person it is applied to. if ron wanted to describe him as lazy black fool, or whatever, then there would be no problem, as *black* is accepted as being merely a descriptive word. you can argue that RA may not be aware that the word ******** has racist implications; that's a different point.

RichWalk

Moose; hope that I never get to the situation where anyone considered I had ethnically discriminated!

One of the more interesting training courses I went on gives a good example of this; 'you are employing someone, many apply, after several interviews, you are left with two candidates of equal acumen; one is white, the other coloured, which one would you employ?'

Duck_Pond

PC - if Ron had called him a "black fool" he'd still have been strung up. Fact is, the UK is overly sensitive to anything that could be seen to be racist.

What he could have said is that he was a "lazy footballer", but then a number of Chelsea supporters would have chastised him for the term "footballer", when his performance didn't deserve to be called that.

"He probably means no harm, but I'm convinced he thinks black people are to be tolerated but no more."

Exactly - your interpretation of his statements. Bearing in mind a few of the footballers he worked with in the past are standing up for him in this row, shows that you've got the wrong end of the stick.

FrenchBoy

if they were women then it has to be the best looking / one with biggest **** - obvious really.

the moose

"He probably means no harm, but I'm convinced he thinks black people are to be tolerated but no more."

Exactly - your interpretation of his statements. Bearing in mind a few of the footballers he worked with in the past are standing up for him in this row, shows that you've got the wrong end of the stick.[/QUOTE]

Really? You were there at the bar with me then, were you?

juan

Its relative too. Depends how old you are and how old they are!

ProperCharlie

well, whatever the ins and outs of it, i personally hope he gets another TV job as he's a better commentator than most of the other numbskulls that we have to endure.

Spoon

I was listening to the news tonight and the Wolves manager Dave Jones was being interviewed.

He happened to say his team had a ***** in their armour at the moment.

Lets see what happens to him in tomorrows papers shall we!

Jerome

Douglas Bader's dog was called ******. The film of him faithfully depicted the name of his dog. That implies to me that it was socially acceptable at one time.

It became unacceptable when people started using it as a derogoratory term.

andypugh2000

Read this weeks nuts magazine, page 30, see the what ron is talking about

MJW

Nice to see the big man making amends ...

Jerome

Apparently, the TUC want to ban Ron from Premiership clubs for life. Seems a bit harsh.

See here

Walwal

I've read through all the comments on this thread, 11 pages takes some reading!!!

I've got to agree with B2Z comments throughout the whole thing. Yes, Ron's made a mistake saying what he did, but (to go over old ground), he wasn't saying he had a bad game cos he was black.

There are a lot of over sensitive people on this board, they've obviously got their own reasons. He's resigned (from a very well paid job by all accounts), should be end of story.

I remember Dot Cotton on Eastenders a few years back saying that she wanted to paint something ****** Brown.

Do you still get that colour at B&Q???

Andy.

Spoon

You do yes, they are often the easiest tins to get into.

They have big lips to prize the lid off.







Whaaaaat???

ProperCharlie

i don't see how being "over sensetive" comes into it. people have their beliefs and they defend them.

*end of story?*

Spoon

Or people just defend what they think they should be defending instead of their true beliefs?

It's called the sheep mentality or the UK for short.

ProperCharlie

why would anyone do that? especially on SN, where we are all using fairly anonymous usernames and we don't know who the majority of other users are. personally, i believe in what i believe in, and i will argue the toss until something or someone changes my mind.

Spoon

Personally you might but it's not difficult to spot the people who don't.

MooseRacer

Of course he wasn't saying the colour of his skin affected his playing ability but what he was using was a very derogatory term which was, at best, foolish.

I wouldn't question his past record in football, but there was nothing other for him to do than resign after this.

Yes this should be the end of it, but that doesn't belittle what he did.