astraboy

Those that know what I look like know I'm not exactly fat in the first place, (see exhibit 1 )
http://www.ush.net/gallery/index2.ht...e=100_0335.jpg
but a while back I was eating 6 chocolate bars a day and my weight was creeping up. I weighed 12 stone at one point.
Now, I eat a banana every time I want a chocolate bar. My weight is back to 11 st. 7, like it used to be and best of all, I am feelling SO much better.
Like Martin says, it aint rocket science is it?
astraboy.

Drunken Bungle Whore

Hmm - perhaps this thread should be retitled "The smug and the thin!!"

I don't need to loose weight, but I have a lot of sympathy for people who need to and struggle to. It's hell to give up something you really like - especially when you are constantly surrounded by advertising for lots of yummy but bad for you foods.

You can't blame people for the fact no-one has told them what they should and shouldn't eat - you should be grateful that someone told you and pass on the information without judging people for being weak and having no will power.

As Victoria Wood said on a rather good TV show - as long as you're not medically doing yourself any major harm (and a lot of overweight people aren't), then there's a lot worse things you could be than a bit overweight - you could be rude, or selfish or nasty or predjudiced. (or smug!)

If you want to lead the perfect life then there'll be no smoking, very little drinking, plenty of exercise, no red meats, no pate, no soft cheese, watch out for the eggs - oh and don't drive, especially fast cars (9 people are killed on the roads every single day - WHO CARES HOW MUCH THEY WEIGH!!!!)

Life is too short - be happy and don't hurt anyone and don't judge anyone else until you've lived their life for them.

Rant over!

astraboy

[QUOTE=Drunken Bungle *****] (9 people are killed on the roads every single day - WHO CARES HOW MUCH THEY WEIGH!!!!)
[QUOTE]
The bodyshop doing the repairs might
I'll get me coat....
astraboy.

milo

maybe.

but then dont they reckon obesity is the second biggest killer in this country, and suspect it will be the first within 20 years?

sure there's a line between obesity and just being overweight... but why risk it? and suggestions are that even being merely "overweight" CAN lead to other problems.

let's face it, being selfish is horrible... but it's FAR less likely to get you killed.

milo

so why not start preparing your food in the toilet and taking a **** in the sink then?

Martin J Stirling

Hmmm, I think maybe we're missing the point here. I am in no way smug, or secretly laughing at those who are overweight. The issue, and the reason for my post is my dismay at what a huge mystery weightloss has become, and how ignorance and misery drives millions of people every year to follow these miracle diets and regimes. Now before people jump down my throat, I mean ignorance in terms of lack of knowledge, as opposed to stupidity.

I realise that general nutritional education is very scarce, people are constantly bombared with adverts for fast food and confectionary, and in general Britain has a very poor food culture. It never ceases to amaze me the number of people that I come across whose diet never includes ANY fresh fruit or vegetables, only frozen or tinned processed foods, take aways and confectionary. It concerns me greatly that as a nation, we are following the path of the US so closely, that we have become the country with the highest incidence of obesity in Europe.

To say that we should give people a break and that it's hard, is not good enough. What you eat, is the sole highest determining factor to a person's health. Bad diet is the most likely cause of health problems, disease and premature death in this country than any other factor. So no, I don't think we should give people a break, people need to understand how singularly important what you eat is on your health - and as yet, many people still aren't aware.

</rant>

Mart.

milo

reality check: a LOT of people simply dont care.

i powerlift and bodybuild. i have been for well over a decade. my diet is impeccible and always will be. in at least 10 years i have not eaten ONE thing that wasn't 100% planned (by that i mean to fulfill exact quotas of protein/carbs/fat). i dont drink alcohol, dont smoke etc etc.

but even with that, im not naive enough to expect other people to do the same. MOST people are willing to make sacrifices and treat their mouth like a toilet in exchange for a few years off their lives.

i will 100% agree that there should be proper education, in schools, about diet. the sad fact is: kids almost always have to eat what their parents prepare for them. and if their parents only buy them fast food (and dont care), there's not a lot you can do.

incidently i take it with you making the quoted statement above, you don't drink, smoke, sunbathe or do anything else detrimental to your health then?

Martin J Stirling

Touché!

I know what you mean, I must sound like a pompous, self righteous git. And you're right, I certainly don't have the trained discipline that you have! I love my curries and Kebabs as much as anyone, but I know enough to limit my intake of these to 'now and again' rather than as a more regular habit. At the end of the day, I appreciate my health more than the momentary pleasure that a burger and fries will give me!

I think we both agree on the point, maybe I should have come across more politically correct!

All the best,

Mart.

CC

good point. anyone can walk the walk but who practices wot they preach?

heres mine taken by my gf at the time. warning i aint wearin alot!

i think i'm in ok shape but a long way from where i wanna be. i was about 14.5 stone @5'9" at the time xmas 03, i'm about 15.5 now, bit more fat & muscle and intend to 'cut up' soon.

http://uk.f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/...&.dnm=0013.jpg

Martin J Stirling

Wicked physique CC.

Just being healthy and eating properly, isn't going to give you a physique like that though! I'm not sure what you're trying to say??

If you wanna call it preaching then fine, but my only point was about people's ignorance towards weightloss and nutrition in general, nothing to do with bodybuilding.

If you wanna talk bodybuilding then I could say that eating 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight is far from healthy (I think that's what bodybuilders aim to eat right?), all that protein puts an enormous strain on your liver and kidneys. So yes, you have an enviable physique, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're all that healthy within..

Cheers,

MS.

milo

this is actually VERY debatable. 1-2g+ of protein per lb of bodyweight is what most bb'ers go for. but most drink at LEAST a gallon of water a day. the extra water seriously reduces any impact on the system for that much protein.

bear in mind the FORM of protein too. NAHRUNG 42(1):12-15 (1998) shows that an excess of protein from WHEY puts no extra stress on the liver or kidneys, even keeping other elements such as water intake and lack of weightlifting constant. since most bb'ers are getting a heap of their protein from whey alone simply because of cost, convenience and the fact that it's one of the few complete proteins that can be consumed in that quantity, it means that the "problem" of consuming huge amounts of protein MIGHT not be as bad as rumor tells us.

add to that a TOTAL lack of empirical evidence to your claim. i will admit that bb'ing is a young sport, but how many have you heard of dying from liver failure or kidney failure (or even suffering from it)?

take arnie for instance. he's what, in his late 50s now? he's hardly unhealthy and has been consuming "unhealthy" amounts of protein for 40+ years. take other bb'ers from his time too, and earlier. they're either dying of natural causes, or are alive, well and FAR more healthy than the other 99.999% of the population at that age.

ozzy

Astraboy, that's one of the cheesiest pics I've seen

wacky.banana,

To be honest I would cut out the majority of sugar from your diet and eat proper wholesome foods, like fresh meat, vegetables and fruit. Don't cheat with pre-packaged foods. I would also agree strongly with milo in that you need to keep your body hydrated and drink plenty of water.

The Bodybuilding/Powerlifting lads are more experienced than me on dieting and they seem a bit too "hardcore" for me

I'm more interested in performance and endurance over physical size, looks and strength (well to some degree). My own training revolves around running and circuit training. Probably the closest style of training to my own is that of boxers.

What you have to remember is diets are very specific and will vary between individuals, especially if they are involved in some sport. CC's, Milo and TelBoys diets would do very little for me and vice versa.

I would always recommend to anyone looking to lose some weight is to start taking some form of regualr exercise and then look very carefully at their existing diet. Radical changes are only likely to work for a small number of people, so it's best to identify certain food types (e.g. do you drink a lot of fizzy drinks, sweets, chocolate or even processed foods).

I used to think that fat was the thing to watch for on food packaging, but now I look for high sugar content and avoid that if possible. Like most people, I have a sweet tooth so an indulgance every now and again is fine. If I've just spent 3 hours running around the Scottish hills, then a KFC on the way home isn't gonna hurt.

Bodybuilding is a completely different (and to some extent unique) sport. You can take some elements from a Bodybuilders diet, but the levels of calories and protein simply aren't required for an average person's diet. That's not to say protein couldn't be the largetst percentage of a diet, but the quantities consumed wouldn't need to be the same.

Bodybuilding diets look extreme from an average person's viewpoint, but given the amount of muscle that's being broken down during training, they need these diets to repair themselves. Arnie at the other legends are still around coz they've avoided all the cr@p the rest of us eat.

There's certainly no hard and fast answers given that my Grandmother died of natural causes in her late 80's even after a life of unhealthy eating (although she was never overweight), spending the majority of her life in a poor area of Glasgow and smoking since she was a teenager.

Then you have Mr Schwarzenegger, who at 50 and having a very healthy lifestyle, requires a triple heart bypass.

Go figure !!

Stefan

wacky.banana

Ozzy & Martin Sterling,

Thanks for your respective responses, only just got back to this post. What you guys say makes a lot of sense and as someone has said, its not rocket science. However I am intrigued by some aspects of the dietary/bodybuilding equation.

My own personal regime consists of running, rowing, cycling, boxercise, fitness and performance tests, circuit training, etc (you get the gist). I train somewhere between 3 and 5 days a week, depending on my work routine (or lack of one). Over the last 2 years my body weight has not changed (that was never the intention in the first place). However my body shape has and I have dropped 2 trouser sizes back down to what I was when I was 21! I'm also fitter than before, although my fitness levels were never in question to start with.

I do a lot of work on my abs (crunches, situps, etc) and watch my diet very carefully without being as obsesive as, say, a bodybuilder would. However how much I try there is a residual element of flab that I cannot shift off the abs. To be fair I'm probably fussy as its not particularly noticeable to others. The muscle content behind it is fine.

To my point - I do around 600 situps a week (excluding crunches, etc) which won't shift the offending layer. However I understand that Peter Andre used to do 600 situps a day to get his infamous abs (I have seen a video of him doing situps while hanging off a wall)! Whilst I accept that this is a shedload more situps than I do it makes me wonder about the diet thing, bearing in mind that, as far as I am aware, Peter Andre did not go a bomb on exceptionally strict diets.

So is it a fallacy that exercise won't do the job or is it a question of upping the levels? I do accept that fish & chips everyday will not help one's case, so we can leave the diet thing out of the equation for now. I'm curious that exercise will work on everywhere and everything else, allegedly, but not on these damned abs.

Any more to add to this, Gents?

WB

milo

congrats on what you've achieved so far.

however, you'll probably never get great looking abs WITHOUT being as obsessive as a bodybuilder. sure you MIGHT be lucky with genetics and be able to maintain a 6-pack while eating crap, but 99.999% of people can't.


andre ALSO used to have an impeccible diet and spent 2 hours a night in the gym.

doing the situps strengthened his core. they did NOT burn fat.


do you want great abs, or do you want to eat fish and chips? its up to you, but i highly doubt you'll get great abs without 100% perfect diet.

ab workouts do three things - burn VERY minimal (sub-optimal) amounts of calories due to the cardio of doing them, strengthen your core, and build muscular MASS on your abs. they do not and will never make you look cut up.

RobJenks

Fat **** cow if you don't mind.

ozzy

WB,

I agree 100% with Milo. I do at least 200 press-ups and 200 sit-ups everyday and I don't have abs like Petre Andre simply because I'm not strict with my diet. All those sit-ups and different exercises Andre did were to build strong abs and pack on muscle - nothing more. You simple can't spot-reduce fat unless you turn to cosmetic surgery

If you had fat thighs, then no amount of squats or leg extensions would burn the fat off them. All it would do is build the muscle underneath. Sure, the muscle would start to show, but it won't leave you looking like a cut Bodybuilder with 2% bodyfat - that's 100% diet.

You'd be shocked at the dietry regime people go through to have abs looking like that.

You should post up your diet and I'm sure Milo would be happy to see if there is any gotchas with it.

On the CV side of things, do you monitor the intensity of your sessions? i.e. you're not doing everything at 110%?

Stefan

milo

absolutely. if you're serious about cutting up, post up your diet and i'll tell you exactly what's right and wrong about it.

jason4656

while i tend to agree with the concept of eating less calories i have to throw a spanner in the works, I run a bodybuilding message board, i help train and diets for pro bbers all the time, I can help anyone else but myself. I have been working out diets and studying nutrition for more than 7 years, I have previously lost 10 stone about 5 years ago. However since putting weight on this time, it just will not shift at all, no matter what.

There is the case of hormonal(mainly estrogen) related fat deposits that will not come off with any amount of exercise, no matter what ur calories are. I have a quite lean stomach, no six pack but there isnt to much fat, however last year i had some hormone inbalance and gained alot of weight on my lower back, that will not budge, now I am 18st9 this morning, I work out 2 x every day, morning cardio and lift weights every afternoon (got nothing better to do lol) i can survive on 1700 kals and lose no weight/fat at all. Yes I know its not about numbers, cos you can be losing body fat while gaining lbm. So i tend to go on the mirror, however not having much luck right now, I tried manipulating my diet in every possible way, atkins, carb cycling, no carbs, carbs in the am only, and so on and so on, my weight just stays the same. I am quite strong and bench usually in excess of 140kg and squat even more, been into this lifestyle for many years, just what i can do for other people, i cant do for myself. I know how it works. I dont really want advice, I just want to say that what appears to be the correct answer, is not always the case!

peace

milo

firstly, is this due to a cycle gone wrong?

everyone is different... but you're still human. in other words, calories and thermodynamics still apply to you without question.

are you truely consistent with your diet or are you kidding yourself? have you tried a 12x bodyweight 40/40/20 split for several months without cheating, reducing by 200 calories a week if you don't lose at least 1-2 lbs the previous week? or is it that you find yourself cheating here and there, but thinking you're not? or starting a cutting diet then giving up after only a few weeks? a diary of EXACTLY what you've eaten is well worthwhile here.

a LOT of bb'ers gain fat just by looking at food. it sucks if that's your bodytype, but you HAVE to work around it and reduce calories even more. if that means going to 1500 or lower, do it. as long as you have those calories between 6-8 meals and take in COMPLETE proteins every time (i.e. a COMPLETE essential amino acid profile EACH TIME) you probably won't catabolise, given what it sounds like your bodytype is. likewise, if you have to do cardio 2 or 3 times per DAY, then that's just how your body is.

futhermore, if you're capable of lifting every afternoon, it *probably* means you're not lifting intensely enough and your workouts are little more than a waste of time going thru the motions.

i know you didnt want advice.. but i couldnt help it

jason4656

lol, thanks anyway, i agree i could make things more intense and strict on the cardio, i do follow diets strictly in a a way that i make a food plan and i can follow it, but i tend to get disheartened after a few weeks when i havent lost a lb.

btw how can anyone who can bench 140, and squat 180 be waisting their time not working out properly? my workouts are very intense, but i do have to work around reoccuring injuries, however usually i get away with it at the moment.

Thats probably part of the problem, I feel when I have done the low carb 8 daily meals 1800 kals diet, at almost 19st i feel lethargic, workouts suffer but still lose no weight. I would have to go down to about 1500kals i think before i start to lose weight, and im pretty sure without some chemical help, catabolic would be the word!

no the estrogen related fat was not part of a cycle gone wrong, i have been writing up cycles for alot of years, i know what works and what doesnt.

peace

jason4656

btw, i own an evo, so can that exempt me from anymore advice? lol

ozzy

possibly

Could the lethargy you're experiencing be a drop in blood sugar levels? I can eat like a horse, but still feel like I have absolutely no energy.

I did a 15 hour stint last August and felt great throughout the day with bags of energy. All I had was some energy bars, plenty of water (and energy powder) and a few jam/butter sandwiches. I'd be lucky to have taken on board 1000 calories, yet looking at my heart rate monitor I'd burned well over 11,000 calories

I was a bit sh@gged the following day though

Stefan

jason4656

my bs has been a bit weird lately i think, cos about an hr after mornin cardio and simple carb drink, i get a kinda hypo feelin, shakey and dissorientated, same time every day. I am gonna need to get a bs meter to see whats really goin on.

thx

milo

personally i think thats the key... not sticking to it.


are you increasing those weights regularly? if not, then your workouts are wasted. if so, then by your own admission you're getting stronger and (presumably as your workouts are geared towards bb'ing), you are gaining more lean mass (so are reducing bf%). so what's the problem?!


perhaps low carb just doesn't work for you. and being catabolic is about your body not getting a regular supply of the essential amino acids and being forced to break down lean mass in order to supply those acids (as it can't produce it). catabolism is rarely about not getting enough calories (altho it does widely depend on your body type).

milo

no.. it just gets you harsher criticism

ozzy

I suffer badly from low blood sugar levels and it literally brings me to a standstill if I get it wrong. I've noticed that it can cause my heart rate to elevate more than usual.

I don't suffer really low levels all that often, but usually if it's very low I'll get cold sweats and feel really faint (I even fallen over a couple of times).

I was going to book an appointment with my GP to find out how I can monitor my levels, but maybe it's better to get some home-test kit rather than pestering my (very) busy GP.

Do you know where you can get these meters from? I guess they're more appropriate for diabetics, but definetely useful if you're monitoring your diet.

Stefan

jason4656

you can buy one in the pharmacy, but i suggest getting a prescription for the test strips which can become very expensive if u r gonna do regular checking, i suggest the accucheck active model, its about 20-25pounds. You may want to check after exercise, after food, see what ur levels are, i think anything under 4.0 is considered to be low but id have to research to be 100% sure.

btw milo, thanks for the harsher criticism, i just sold my scoob, do i get any exemption for liking both? lol

also yes weights are increasing regular lately, but been through a bad patch and some off time, i was benching about the same about 1year to 18 months ago, but things all went pear shaped and took time off, moved countries and had a relationship (lol) so you know what happens, but i feel im back on track now.

I also agree the time length thing is maybe the key, however i can manage 4 weeks without cheating usually, its at that point i get dissheartened, i dont exactly give up but some carbs do sneak in. I think its a pretty good point if something hasnt worked at all in 4 weeks, then it possibly may not work at all though.

low carbs may not be the answer, but i can gain weight pretty easy too, so im stuck between a rock and a hard place really, however i just still plod on love the iron game and lifting, love cars

CC

ive tried various ways to lose fat. i found the best way for me was

-overall low'ish cals which consisted of high protien/med-low fat/low carbs
-anti estrogen
-cardio (which i detest and didnt do enough of)

edited to add : i ate smaller meals and more often. i found the food types allowed, atkins'ish, suited me more ie lean meats eggs etc and i dunno whether it was in the mind but after a while my cravings for carbs subsided.

but it was bloody tough i love choccys etc

wacky.banana

Milo, Ozzy, Jason,

Thanks for your respective responses. Sounds like the only way I'm going to be able to "cut up" those abs is to get harsh & mean on the diet.

I will post up my diet later for comment. As a starter for ten what sort of diets are you guys on? A typical day in the life of Ozzy/Jason/Milo will do, just to get a feel for it.

Re the comment about training at 110% continuously I don't do that. I mix and match my cardio routines although weight sessions are restricted somewhat (probably because I get a better sense of achievement and wellbeing from cardio than from anything else).

My underlying reason for exercising is to stay fit & healthy and feel good. So maybe for the abs I need to change my mindset somewhat. Oh btw, I definitely don't do fish & chips, I only gave that as an example!

Good thread this; reminds me of the old kindred spirit we used to have on Scoobynet a few years ago before some of us got into Mr Angry mode and started cussing asylum seekers to death for sport.

Thanks again for your input, Gentlemen, and I apologise to Martin Stirling for hijacking his thread somewhat. Hope I'm forgiven.

WB

ozzy

I've a nasty habit of skipping breakfast. I know, I know [/hangs head in shame]

Anyway, here's mine (on a good day):-

Breakfast - 08:00hrs (do a quick press-up/sit-up/pull-up circuit first)
Bowl of Cereal (Wheatabix, Shredded Wheat or Muslli) + Semi-Skimmed Milk
Couple of slices of toast (wholemeal bread) + Margarine (Flora light stuff)
Cup of Tea (white, 2 sugars)
Some fruit (Banana, Apple, Tangerine)
Multi-Vitamin

Snack
Handful of fruit (Banana, Apple, Tangerine)
Sandwich (e.g. chicken salad OR whatever I fancy from the trolley that comes round )

Lunch - 13:30hrs (straight after an hours run or circuit)
Bowl of Soup (usually a tin of some Heinz variety)
Couple of slice of wholemeal bread
Some type of Pasta dish
Some fresh bread rolls
At least a couple of bottles of Lucozade Sport drink

Snack
Handful of fruit (Banana, apple, plums, etc..)

Dinner - 20:00hrs (usually go for an hours run before)
Whatever my Dad makes me
Usually some Meat or Fish dish with Rice OR Pasta (bolognaise, carbonara, tuna)
Some Veg (unless it's pasta) - carrots, brocolli, green beans, etc..

Supper - (do another quick press-up/sit-up/pull-up circuit first)
Sandwich (made up from whatever's in the fridge - salami, chicken, banana, etc..)
Glass of warm milk

I also try and drink a lot of water throughout the day.

Like CC, I've a sweet tooth but I've stopped eating chocolate and drinking fizzy drinks completely. Only started at the weekend, but (touch wood) I've not had any cravings - although I've been eating a lot of fruit as a substitute.

Been thinking of adding some protein and creatine to my diet to see what effects it has. Also looking to swap from drink Lucozade Sports to some energy powder. I did use Mamimuscle Viper in the past, but found the powdery taste a bit off-putting compared to the Lucozade stuff. May try it again or something else if anyone has any recommendations.

Stefan