gareth123

Last time I read the Bible I didn't notice He was making naked Arab pyramids - but I did skim some of the slower parts.

AFAIK most of the freedom detainees in the prison aren't people caught attacking troops (I imagine most of those die trying to be caught) but people just picked up at checkpoints etc for questioning.

V45DSM

Thats what I'm saying! They wouldn't! So why should we play the good samaritan routine!?

Brendan Hughes

Do the freedom detainees eat freedom fries for dinner?

Tiggs

you lot do excited about some odd stuff.....theres plenty of evil in the world...yet you get all upset about some bullying...worse goes on in most schools!

ProperCharlie

so let me get this clear in my head - say you unwittingly run someone over whilst speeding one day (and heaven forbid that this would happen to a nice guy like you ), you would fully accept the family of your victim strapping you up and driving over you repeatedly in their landrover discovery in the local tesco's car park? after all - why should they play the good samaritan routine?

i'm glad i don't live in your world.

ProperCharlie

let it be your son in the midst of a naked man pyramid - then we'll see who's excited. or did it not occur to you that these people have lives and families and loved ones?

Brit_in_Japan

So no moral authority then. No pretence about liberating the Iraqi people from a tyrrant. We can go and do to the Iraqi people what we like because we're bigger and wealthier than they are. I bet the Iraqi people are so happy that one abusive rulership has been replaced with another. Truely a step forward in middle east peace and security

Brit_in_Japan

Ever heard of leading by example ? We are supposed to be the civilised society, upholding the highest standards of democracy, protection of civil liberties, human rights etc. The US people think they are the world protectors of freedoms and human rights. And then they go and behave like this ? What does that do to the moral authority of the US.

If we truly support human rights, democracy and individual freedom, we should maintain the highest standards in the way we treat others. That's the justification for being in Iraq in the first place. If we can't do that, if we brutalise the Iraqi's in the same way they were brutalised by Saddam, we will have achieved nothing in the long run.

V45DSM

If someone ran over a member of my family and it was their fault, then yes I would introduce them to my Disco's 385/65 R 22.5s. Captured Allied servicemen aren't unwittenly tortured and killed by their capturers - they do it on purpose, it's what they do. The Americans weren't torturing or murdering those Iraqi's, they were laughing at their *******... Ahhhhh, so thats what this is all about, folk laughing at small *******. Is that whats upset you? I'm sure you've been told before Charlie, size doesn't matter.

V45DSM

I think Sadam's twisted imagination stretched beyond a game of 'touchy ****'.

Brit_in_Japan

But it goes much further than that. Most stuff nobody hears about because no-one is there to report it. Have you seen the CNN footage of the US Marines summarily executing (a.k.a. murdering) an Iraqi. Here it is (Warning, man is shot dead in clip)

This is also a contravention of the Geneva Convention, but the cheering marines don't seen particularly concerned do they. Have you read about the large numbers of civilians killed in Falluja. US snipers have targetted anything that moves, unarmed civilians, old men, women, ambulances. The US marines refused to let any males under the age of 40 leave Falluja because they wanted to send in the C130 gunships and Apache helicopters to neutralise the "insurgent forces". So the innocent or those that wanted to quit were prevented from doing so.

You can joke about it, but the pictures from a prison are only a small part of what has been going on.

ProperCharlie

laugh all you want, i'm not worried.

you should to look at yourself; seriously.

you want to try and bring everyone down to your level. that's why you think that what the american soldiers did was ok - it's because it's what you would have done yourself.

i'll never go there - it's too far beneath me.

have a nice day

V45DSM

A wounded, conscious and armed Iraqi militant lying across the road being shot by American soldiers from their position is not an execution. They had just been attacked by said man and while he's still alive and moving, lying next to a gun he’s is a threat. Any army in the world would finish him off. It’s a war zone, not 'chuck out' time on a Saturday night in Totton.

gareth123

Their freedom fries are dipped in ketchup then stuffed up their nose. Saddam used to dip their freedom fries in mustard - much worse - then stuff them up their nose. So these Iraqis should be grateful for the improvement.

Taff107

It really is good to see people taking the moral high-ground here. Doing your 9 to 5 in some office in Slough or wherever, then coming home and watching 3 minutes of news concerning Iraq doesn't exactly give you an insight of what life is like working under those conditions.
As I said earlier, I am in no way, condoning what has happened to those Iraqis but if it was the other way round they would have been tortured then executed.
Personally, I recall being told about the incident with 6 of the guys and if I had got hold of the scum who did it, they would be dead too.

gareth123

If I worked in Slough I'd torture then execute myself.

ProperCharlie

our soldiers (and US soldiers) aren't conscripted. i appreciate that they do a very demanding job, sometimes witnessing things that no-one would want to see, and also risking their lives. however, they are still paid to do a job and should do it properly. if they can't take the heat then they shouldn't be out there in the first place, IMO.

gareth123

Totally agree

ProperCharlie

yeah, well i agree with that, too - but even if you accept that they are out there, they should still try and behave like vaguely civilised people.

moses

how interesting its good to read from afar

gareth123

What does that mean in English? That you have found your binos?

Taff107

I agree with your point of view PC (albeit a tad simplistic), a professional Army should (and does on the whole) act in the correct manner, however there are times when things go awry. After all, they aren't robots and sometimes human emotion can come into play.

ProperCharlie

i accept that things can go wrong, of course. things can go wrong in any organisation. still, when things do go wrong, the people responsible have to be shown the error of their ways.

dtriggs

What some of you guys are saying is that if you have more money and therefore more power you can do what you want coz you are the self proclaimed good guys. That kind of attitude led to 3000 people beinmg killed in New York - wont you guys ever learn ?
If you treat people like that there can be no complaints when they retaliate in the same way. We are trying to get Iraq to a better state with a democracy and therefore we must act in the way we are asking them to behave. Otherwise we will be there for 10 more years and lose many more of our soldiers.

The fact we shouldnt be there in any form at all is a different matter.

Tiggs

that video clip is a good example of why tv crews should be banned from war zones!

i assume the iraqi hadnt just slipped on his shoe laces? from what the solider said they were involved in a gun battle...and he lost.

its not a jam in a photocopier.......these are blokes with guns trying to kill each other. as for the cheering.......why not? some people try to kill your buddies- your buddies kill them...ye ha jesters dead....im sure a bit of back slapping in victory has always gone on.

T

+Doc+

Oh ffs people need to look at the bigger picture here! People have to look at it form the other prospective what if it happened to YOUR country how would you react? These people have been brainwashed by Saddam over your of a regime that scared them into submission OK they are prisoners of way and have been captured in the field, but they do not need to be subjected to tortur methods undertaken by a Saddam regime we as western countries are bigger than that we should be leading by example and tryin to help these people.

gareth123

Bl00dy hell, speaking of torture, who banned punctuation?

Steve Perriam

just shoot them, be less painfull for all concerned ?

+Doc+

Punctuation is out of the window after muchos beeros