Gutmann pug

Trouser

Are you sticking the mitsi on Pete's stand at jap Fest? If so i will see you there mate

Trouser @TSL

Hi mate

the mitsi will be there.. but sadly i won't . I am taking the misguided step of lending it to Pete for the day!

But it is Dr Evils wedding instead .. so it's not all bad .. hic!

Gutmann pug

We will look after it for the day mate dont you worry about that... .....it will save me from taking scoob on the track now i know the misti keys are available to all comers..

MikeWood

Trouser

It would have been nice for us to be involved in the article in the same way as everyone elso though, we didn't even know it was happening......... Same applies to the WR1 test with Type 25 etc at Bedford, we were the only company not represented on the day.

Pity that what they tested isn't actually what's on sale now either as we've updated the spec slightly with some of the new things we've been working on for WR1, but it wouldn't have been as much of a story then would it

Must teach Jethro how to launch the car as well as 1.8 seconds to 30 is not too sharp....

Regards

Mike

Edcase

Mike, had I not read the 0-100 feature I would be forgiven for mistaking your posts as sour grapes, but from seeing that the car is capable of these figures I have to admit it is odd that you were not invited. Do you think the magazines in question felt that you would not agree to such comparisons?

I have to say I find it odd that its been put up against other scoobies in most cases, when you would have expected it to be up against the comparable Evo as a first port of call.

At the end of the day though, you're going to sell all the cars no problem, it's the only car there with a proper manufacturers warranty, and its a different target audience that would buy a T25 or a new Sti and then, say, a 333 kit than those who would buy a WR1.

Mind you, I've no doubt that you will see some WR1 owners going the aftermarket route to get that little bit more in the future.

Edcase

Trouser, shame you arent down for japfest, can you believe its a year since that fateful night

Glad its all worked out so swimmingly mate.

Now the scooby is back to standard any chance I can use the evo for a few laps of CC on the day, you know from last year I know which way the corners go

It'll be good PR to see it being used well on the track, I can film it too for the website

Trouser @TSL

Ed man.. I owe you a lot.. and you're almost family .. but you have more chance of knitting fog .. besides.. you wouldn't be used to the power.. its running MoTeC now ..

I can lend you the Figaro tho... .. make a great mobile chicane

Edcase

LOL!!

Gav said he went in it the other week and it was really slow

Have you got the Figaro now?? Rach is dying to check it out!

MikeWood

Ed

Definately not sour grapes at all as we are always more than willing for our products to be compared to other offerings but it's frustrating when you aren't on hand to make sure that it's going to perform as we know it should do. Simon and I have done many 0-60 type tests on our cars and the only way we can make it get OVER 5 seconds is to bog the launch, miss a gear, or let the intake system get too hot so that our temperature protection is triggered. Says a lot when it becomes apparent that they were prepared to 'stress' Subaru's car but not some of the others and then quote the time for the PPP car instead!

Let's hope that any WR1 owners wanting to go that way don't pay too big a price for the promise of 'that little bit more'

Mike

MadMark

Mike - Personally I thought the PPP was viewed quite favourably except on the magic numbers.
I seem to remember that smoothness of delivery and the thoroughness of the mapping were praised very highly ..... but in raw power the others had more (but not the Subaru warranty)!

Edcase

Mike, seeing as trouser won't lend me the Mitsi, perhaps I could take the WR1 out to impress the punters at Japfest??

Or perhaps I could take out the ATD again

Talking of which, is that likely to make an appearance any time soon? I've been hearing some interesting rumours as to who might be interested in using it

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Just catching up...

...and reading about the implied criticism of monster tuned cars being a pig to drive and laggy old dogs due to big turbos.

Which is of course complete bollocks from those who have no experience of ultra-high bhp cars.

I can only comment from my own experience.

Full boost available at 3,200rpm, over 450lbs ft of torque at 3,000 rpm, over 400lbs ft of torque from 2,800rpm to 7,000rpm.

Easy to drive from tickover.

Pulls easily in 5th from 1,800 rpm.

Over 500bhp from 5,000rpm to the redline.

Of course, the same engine and drivetrain could be as easily dropped into a blob eye as a the classic it is currently in. And just in case it is not clear, I am talking about a Scoob.

The only key weakness with this set up is the driver!! As initial attempts to get a good quarter time have indicated

Rannoch

Wonder Wagon

lol @ Rannoch

whats your best times so far then??

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

You know that feeling when you take an instant dislike to people

How I love my TD04

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Errrr, first time out got an 11.9s quarter at 113mph, but had no boost in fourth as a pipe blew off!!

Second attempt got an 11.7s quarter at 125mph, but had a flurry of wheelspin in 1st and 2nd as my driving technique needs to change due to the massive amount of torque available.

On the second run, even with all the wheelspin, it did the 1/8th in 7.7s at 96mph and that was with a really bad 2s 60ft time. So with a little practice a 0-100mph well under 8s is going to be possible. And if practice doesn't help we can always turn on the launch control

Rannoch

CraigH

LOL - if only all tuners were that honest

There certainly seems a huge amount of favouritism amongst some manufacturers, especially in Autocars case with Caterham and a few others, where they seem quite happy to let them fiddle until they have an optimum setup for the day to record the best times, then others are berated for being "out of the box" and not performing too well.

David_Wallis

David,

I cant wait to see it with gear dependant boost control, sls and antilag turned on.

David

Adam M

I am sure you aren't the only one wallis!

AndyS44

15k for a nice new engine - cheap! compared to the replacement Porsche ceramic disks at 27k a set!!!!!! (see article in save EVO issue)

billythekid

This is a cool thread. We have this argument all the time on our Caterham forum as some of the guys spend £2-£3k just for an extra 30bhp over stock But the drivability is much improved.

I spent around £5k tuning my engine which included new everything except the block, I got a power increase from 130bhp to 210bhp (does not sound much but gives 440bhp/ton ) - I did a lot of the work myself and I am sure if I got a well known tuner to do this conversion I would be looking at near £10k - so I think you did well mate.

hawkeye

FAO Mike Wood,

I have read this post with interest and fully agree with your comments "it is indeed a sham your were not invited" im sure everyone would have loved to see the WR1 perform like it should do.

AS to the VALIDITY of the performance figures im afraid i take them with a "pinch of salt" why you may ask well.............................

the sti spec c figures posted in the shoot out for the ultimate imprezza WERE EXACTLY the same as the figures posted when they compared the SPEC C, to GT3 to CSL ummmmmm have they really tested it... because there is NO WAY you can get identical figures twice its impossible

Edcase

read the 0-100 article in the recent autocar (?) magazine

a very bold claim. Look at motorsport. Who would have thought 3 f1 drivers would get the same time to a 1000/second in the same qualifying? Who would have thought rally drivers could regularly post exactly the same times over many miles of twisty, undulating and slidy stages? No such thing as impossible in these circumstances.

hawkeye

urmmm again i beg to differ here we are talking about road cars with possibly DIFFERENT drivers when the two magazine articles were done 4 months + apart if memory serves me right one was done in the sunny hills of goodness knows where the other in rainy England how therefore can a Spec C achieve EXACTLY the same timings 0-60 0-100 50 -70 etc etc etc at 2 different events It would lead me to think that the SAME figures have been used rather than 2 sets produced.......


Edited also to add the 0-100 article in autcar again was potentailly flawed as Prodrive weren't invited to show how to get these timings!!

All im saying is if Prodrive were invited maybe the figures would be diffrent

Also comparing road cars to F1 or Rallying these people are paid to drive 1 vehicle every day not jump from 4 or 5 different cars then get the best out of each...... come on were talking real world here

MikeWood

Hawkeye

I believe the only car that was performance tested for this feature was the WR1 and it was done in damp conditions the next day.

It is possible to get similar figures but as you say not identical. As an example, during the several tests I did on the WR1 the 0-30 times were all within the range of 1.44 to 1.56 on a very new car so where they get 1.7 & 1.8 from I'm not sure.

Mike

Edcase

The figures in the 0-100 article were almost bang-on what Prodrive quote. I was using it as a positive example

Scoobypl

Quote Mike Wood:
"It would have been nice for us to be involved in the article in the same way as everyone elso though, we didn't even know it was happening......... Same applies to the WR1 test with Type 25 etc at Bedford, we were the only company not represented on the day."

Could it be that Prodrive is regarded as official Subaru? Do these magazines invite every car-manufacturer to their tests? Or do they just collect the cars, and give an "approximation" of what they are going to do with it? Which is kinda obvious...(an STI PPP is probably not going to be compared with a Rover 75 to see if it is as comfortable...) It's gonna have its a*se driven off!

Mike Wood quote:
"Says a lot when it becomes apparent that they were prepared to 'stress' Subaru's car but not some of the others ..."

Mike says here that it is Subaru's car...? So even he regards it as OEM? So Not a tuner! Could it be that the magazines turn to their readers for so-called "tuned" cars? I would think it kinda obvious (although it is really NOT!) that an official "test"-car (i.e. used for nothing else) from a big manufacturer is less annoying to wreck than the everyday car of one of your readers, or the "one-off" car supplied by the tuner... Could it be that the subjective "value" of these cars is a reason to "hold back"? Could it be that they just invite the owner of the car? (Subaru might not be regarded as an "owner")

Mike Wood quote:
"we are always more than willing for our products to be compared to other offerings but it's frustrating when you aren't on hand to make sure that it's going to perform as we know it should"

Is that necessary? As I read the articles, they come across as attempts to value these cars performances as they would be in real life... (but I could be wrong, because I'm no "native" English speaker...) If Mr. Wood was allowed (or needs to, for that matter...) to fiddle with the car to make sure it performs as it should... Does the PPP come with an addendum saying that Mr Wood will come to your aid and to explain why you've lost your "POD" excursion because the PPP suffered from heat soak and might faulter? Or am i being naive for thinking that a car should "perform" on a regular basis? EVO could be forgiven for thinking so!
Something strange to my foreign ears and nose i think, but hey, i could be way off here... but wanting an explanation anyhow...

Scoobypl

Being Belgian I might not be as well informed and technically adept in Subaruland as many of you.
Here is my 2p, and please correct me if I'm wrong:
If I want a PPP on my car I go to Subaru belgium...
I have my car serviced (STI 04) at the importers own dealership...
I keep my warranty intact. I cannot get my PPP fitted directly at prodrive as I understand it.
I do want to know what happens to my car, and I do want to get the impression that the people ho work on my car know what they are doing! I've asked for some info and explanation on the how and what of the PPP. At a certain point I directed my inquiries directly to Prodrive (Mr. Wadeson) (who were very helpfull by the way, as was my dealer...). Why? Because however helpfull my dealer was, I had the distinct impression that he did not know fully what he was talking about!
I also talked to a local Tuner, who is held in high regard (EMS holland), about tuning and Ecutekking the car. He sounded much more knowledgeable to my untrained ears than my own dealer...hence I felt I could trust him better...

I've not yet done anything to my car, but my brain tells my to PPP, and my gut tells me to 'tune'...

That is the fundfamental flaw in the PPP! You need to lay your trust (and a heap of cash) in the hands of a "mainstream" Subaru dealer to have it fitted (even if it is as "big" as the importer) and it might consequently be done by some nitwit who knows f*ck all about "mapping", backpressure, aso...)
If I take my car to EMS... it is he who does the mapping, the tuning aso...
In other words: I'm dealing with the man who developped the package!

If I could take my car to Banburry (Prodrive, I think?) and have the PPP fitted by Mr. Wood, or under his supervision... I would not hesitate one second to PPP! Because I trust him to know what he is doing, and he would make sure not to fall from grace by providing me with a perfectly "tuned" car...
My local dealer? No way Hosé!
PPP is very good i'm sure... but only as good as the people who ultimately fit it!

Dazza's-STi

Agree... that is ALOT of Wonga...

me thinks a 2.5 a larger turbo maybe some bits and bobs and setting up would equate to les than that rather large amont... very nicly done though, must admit... very nice..

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Hope i can help This is fairly basic and I'll might have to wear a VERY thick flame suit if I get it wrong

PPP is, in EcuTeK terms is like TEK2, which means it's "Plug and Play" an "Off the peg" Map TEK3 by EMS is a "Custom" Map, they reprogram your existing ECU and takes into account all engine mods

PPP kit comprises.... an ECU which is pre-programmed by Prodrive (your old Std ECU unit is returned to Prodrive), a Sports Cat, a Prodrive Back Box and uprated Fuel Pump. The map is Locked by Prodrive so NO dealer has NO input


As for your dealer not knowing about programing doesn't really matter as long as he "Fits" all the supplied parts correctly there are NO dealer inputs into any ECU settings ( although they plug into EC to check running ok ). Any competant Subaru Mechanic should have no problems fitting this PPP kit,

If you have EMS do exhaust mods, fuel Pump and EckTek Tek3 you will have better Performance than PPP but your car is no longer has Warranty

PPP needs to be fitted by a Dealer in the Country which covers it's Warranty so correct you can't come to Britain and have it fitted Prodrive.

IIRC AFAICR etc etc,

Tony

Ps hope this is of help

gadget daz

Ive got to say guys, this is one of the best threads i have read for many months on scoobynet, just like it used to be, proper discussion and none of the normal muppet talk like lately

Darren (more money than sense ,but a great big cheesy grin when using full boost)

If u want this type of performance and you have the dollar, do it
if u want good mild performance gains for less dollar, do it
if u want a standard good car, keep it standard

Do what u want, not what other people want u to do As long as your happy, that's all that matters at the end of the day