ARRON BIRD

Same old same old if you ask me
Prodrive have very good products that DONT affect your warranty.
Mike has valid comments.
They should be able to show off their wares.
Mind you the Prodrive WR1 has a bigger turbo fitted anti lag bigger brakes 25" wheels and a 10" exhaust system so hardly fair!!!
Oh and Mike behind the wheel which is always going to put a few tenths ON any time test as he has the reaction time of a pregnant porpoise!!!

Scoobypl

T5NYW quote: "PPP kit comprises.... an ECU which is pre-programmed by Prodrive (your old Std ECU unit is returned to Prodrive), a Sports Cat, a Prodrive Back Box and uprated Fuel Pump. The map is Locked by Prodrive so NO dealer has NO input "

Is that so???
It is "simple" questions and answers like this I was looking for!
But My dealer said there was no replacement ECU fitted, just a remap... (and If memory serves me correctly, Mr. Wadeson concurred! Only "hardware" changed was the fuelpump and exhaust... (The dealer didn't even know correctly what parts of the exhaust were changed... thought it was only the backbox and centre section! )
I thought there might be a difference between the english PPP and the continental PPP, but that was denied by Mr. Wadeson.
So, i'm pretty sure i can find Mr. Wadesons original answer to my questions, were he states that it is just a remap, and no ECU-exchange, but maybe Mr. Mike Wood can answer this here? Cause now i'm even more confused!
I would think this to be pretty straightforward information (I mean, it's not like i'm asking specifics about the remap is it?) ... and I have to say that my confidence in my dealer is below zero at the moment. Either he really does not know his stuff (and in that case I do not want him within a mile of "upgrading" my car), or he is deliberatly feeding me disinformation (in which case I don't want him near my car either!)

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

sorry not quite

You are correct no exchange ECU. the Dealer would be given/sent a copy of "Prodrive PPP Map" (EcuTeck software) and is registered to your car, and only your car They just download the map to your old ECU. The PPP map is locked and cannot be manipulated by your or any other dealer

From the rear, The BackBox is replaced, the resonator section stays, Cat2 removed, Main Cat removed and replaced with Sports Cat (1 Piece) . so 3 original Exhaust Parts removed and replaced by 2 Prodrive ones and yes the fuel Pump

Tony

PS, Sorry for tottally confusing you, hopefully got it somewhere closer

PPs,

Daz,

If you'd have taken all the Gadgets out you could have taken 2 seconds of the 0-100 run LOL have you said how much you were selling it for ??



You

CraigH

If all manufacturers were allowed to be at road tests to "ensure" the claimed figures are matched, then there wouldn't really be any point in magazine road tests would there? (some would say there isn't anyway).

I know Autocar always seem to allow Caterham and Radical along to "optimise" but not any others. There would never be a level playing field or true representation "on the day" Mike, I think you've been hanging around Arron for too long - you're always making excuses

Perhaps Autocar can only get good results out of Caterham..........

gadget daz

26k ono, comes with everything

MikeWood

Craig

It's more about the various products being compared to ours (in both a negative and positive way) without us being there like everyone else to make sure the facts are correct. As an example, any car converted in the same way as the PPP will be experiencing boost surge if it runs more boost at low rpm than we are. This may be why TSL's '333' feels stronger at low rpm but how long will the turbo last run in surge?? Didn't mention that, did it?

Just feel a bit miffed that various tuners were asked along to compare their product to ours without us being invited to 'defend' ourselves. I'm sure you would feel the same in this situation. This would only have made the feature more complete as the full picture would have emerged ie, that the package as tested isn't what you buy NOW, not an attempt to provide a special car in a spec that is better than normally available like some other manufacturers have done.

Mike

mark*b

That's a nice price daz, but why are you selling it?

Just read the article and found my heart sunk for the guy who's scoob owes him £50K and yet his 0-60 time is 5.2s! I would be absolutely devastated with that. I know that a lot of that money has probably gone into styling and ice and bringing up to STi spec etc but **** me - that is an horrific amount of money to spend on tuning a wrx.

I did read that it's laggy but when it's post 4K it then starts to really sing so the times don't reflect how fast it is but what's up with the handling? Surely Eibachs with standard dampers are a good setup. I guess the car is what you want it to be but.. mate...

If this is your car I'd love to hear what you have to say about the article.

Nick Wadeson

No need to worry on this score. Unless it has changed recently, all Benelux cars have their PPP's fitted at the Aalsmeer site (Amsterdam), where they are all installed by trained technicians. These technicians are simply re-programming the ECU using our software (to which they have no access which would allow them to change our mapping).

If Subaru Benelux have changed their rules and now allow vehicles to have the PPP fitted by your local dealer, then the ECU will be an exchange unit (i.e. they will return your standard ECU back to Aalsmeer for re-programming, this would then be sent to another customer as part of his PPP).

The other components contained within the PPP are as easy to fit as OE Subaru parts, so any technician will be able to fit them without problems.

Not true. As mentioned above all your dealer can do is install our PPP. They have no influence over mapping etc, all parts are a straight swap with the standard items. As long as they know how to use a spanner everything will be okay

PPP's for UK and EU are the same.

If you're not happy, I suggest either going to a different dealer or directly to Aalsmeer. Please also send me a PM and I will speak directly to Subaru Benelux to ensure this dealer has the relevant information.

This is correct on the WRX, however on the STI we also replace the down-pipe.

Thanks, Nick.

gadget daz

Mark
buying a convertible, cruising time, getting old

Jza

You think they can handle a spanner!!!!

Are you aware nick that a lot of dealers who fitted the bugeye PPP to the UK WRX/UK300 in 2001/2002 forgot to instal a key component (some valve thingymagig) that prevented the correct boost of the PPP???

You have a lot more faith in Subaru technicians than a lot of us do Nick!!!!

Jza

Nick Wadeson

Okay, perhaps I should have stated 'hold a spanner'



I am aware of a couple of cases of this happening, but it was no way near as widespread as you suggest (though the reading of this BBS at the time would've distorted that view slightly). Besides, this is now irrelevant as the restrictor is not required with our current range of PPP's.



Most Subaru technicians I have met have been very knowledgable and have worked to a very high standard. Obviously I cannot comment for every technician employed by every dealer.....

Thanks, Nick.

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Daz,
I didn't think they've publicaly released the Impreza 2 door or Convertible yet

Tony

hawkeye

Thanx for replying Mike ive been off the net for a few days "going cold turkey"

I'd agree wholeheartedly with your comments regarding being invited to these events and anyone who states that other manufacturers dont get invited is actually being in my eyes short-sighted (excuse the pun)

If Mike Woods & Prodrive were willing to be there WHY NOT?????

How many other companies like Prodrive take the time to post on boards like this??

Thanx again Mike & keep up the good work

Hawk

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

True good and average in all walks of life it's all about Customer care, Confidence and Perception with a Dealership

At my the First visit to my nearest/cheapest Dealership they failed in Customer care For the last 4 year have travelled farther to a much more expensive one Yet that other Dealership, I believe, has more experienced Subaru Tech's

Tony

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

£15k.... sounds reasonable to me....I've spent far more than that - a lot of wasted money but that was back in the early days when 400bhp wasnt being attained in the UK........

I guess you can pretty much spec what you want these days...2litres, 2.5litre sir, Garrett this and that... you can take your pick....

RCM work is very good.... I cant fault the overall service that I received when I went internal...... I'm about half way there on the mod path at the moment with my pitiful 419bhp.... on a puny ickle Turbo

hawkeye

At the end of the day £15,000 is A LOT OF MONEY to spend on modding any car BUT who else has an MY02 STI pushing out 437bhp etc................ anyone???? if no one has then how can they say that it ISNT money wel spent............... if I could get 400 (reliable) bhp out of a MY02sti engine for £3000 there would be a queue a mile long...... I cant and im sure no-one else could (only used as an illustration)

Red Man

I have been reading through this thread slowly and have found your comments of particular interest. Maybe some thoughts from a PPP customer might be of interest.

The PPP fitted to my MY01 WRX (18 months after buying the car from new) made a huge difference - the improvement in day to day driving was fantastic and the soundtrack was spot on. To be honest the standard WRX in my view is incomplete without the PPP. It was important that I retained the warranty, both as protection but also peace of mind that the upgrade was not going to wreck the reliability.

I have just in the last couple of weeks traded in the WRX for a new STi - and based on past experience the decision to take the PPP (booked for 2 weeks time) was a no-brainer. This was even after reading the EVO article. The reason why - reliability and track record. So not having spoken to Prodrive before it was interesting to hear your views.

Am I right in reading from your comments that the EVO timings for the STi PPP were non-representative - because I did find the figures surprising and somewhat disappointing. My only experience of STi PPP was as a passenger in a bug-eye, and it certainly was sharper that my WRX PPP. What figures, inc 0to 60mph do you believe to be representative and repeatable, dry day driver only?

Finally you mention improvements to the PPP. Are these in relation to the STi and are they part of the current package (i.e. that which will be fitted to my car a week on Saturday)?

Any feedback gratefully received and thanks for your contributions so far.

Edcase

Red Man, before mike answers I would personally suggest that your seat-of-the-pants experience of the PPP should be of more concern than a few missing tenths of a second on paper in a magazine review

hawkeye

Redman,
the sti is also lacking without the ppp, a ppp'd sti is what the sti shout have been to start with, my sti is running @ 320bhp and is fun everytime i drive it.

Luckily it is a second vehicle for me so i dont get "bored/used" to the power as quickly as someone who drives it everyday. THe main problem is people seem to have a power hungry attitude which is great for tuners, but not that helpful for people like prodrive who are limited by IM/subaru as to what they can produce and what is vialble with a 3 year warranty.

The ppp is a fantastic package in my opinion, not buggering your warranty has to be worth a few hundred quid alone!!!

I would also agree that the "driving" experience is what counts NOT figures on paper, however its the figures on paper that people can use to judge cars at a glance rather than try to drive them all back to back (which is nigh on impossible anyway)

Red Man

Edcase,


agree entirely which is why I still intend to go PPP rather then just rely on the magazine.

Just wanted to make sure the PPP would be the "latest" and also interested in Mike's views - thats the real beauty of this forum.

Cheers

MikeWood

Red Man

Standing start performance figures are a notoriously difficult gauge of a cars real world acceleration as it's wholly down to how agressive the launch is. One car that records 0-60 in 6 seconds after dumping the clutch at the rev limiter may not be a fast on the road as one that can do the same figures slipping the clutch. The industry standard method of just trying to get the lowest figure is the only way of doing a reasonable comparison as you can't judge easily how much slip you used between cars and therefore how hard you had to try.

It wouldn't be impossible to go out and do 10 runs around 4.5 to 4.6 seconds with driver only but this isn't something you would want to do in your own car!!

The performance package you will get fitted now is a slightly updated version of what was tested that has incorporated loads of new things we have learnt with the WR1, but it still gives 305ps, albeit across a wider engine speed range.

Mike

hawkeye

Oh Oh i can now imagine how many older PPP owners are wondering can I get this "Slightly Updated Version" on my car please


I think a can of worms may have been spilt!!!

a good and informative reply tho mike

ProdriveSTI

So does this mean that the PPP02 is slight different from PPP04, even tho the BHP is the same

Red Man

Mike,

many thanks for taking the time to reply. I agree the 0 to 60 time is irrelevant as something I would want to "test out" - I like to drive fast but in a way that takes care of the motor. However, it is useful as a comparison, i.e. an inidcator and I am grateful for your feedback.

I am also pleased to learn that my STi PPP will have enjoyed some benefit from your work on the WR1 - can I claim it as a WR0.5?!

Once again thanks for taking the time - and lets see how long this thread will now run.

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Totally agree Try the Newage STi's without PPP for a few Kmiles it's certainly a vast improvement

I like
PPP because Improvements and Warranty
TSL333 is an excellent package if warranty is not an Issue
WR1 awesome
RCM if only I could afford the £15K it would be done Tomorrow Blow Warranty you'd just need a Bib to catch my Drool

Tony