gnome

I could not agree with you more, i watched him in his first ever race, or should i say qualifiing, and followed him since, Ferrari were nothing he could of gone to any team and had 10 championships but he chose ferrari and they are the best because of his big help, cheat no just wants to win more than anyone eles.

*Sonic*

Mart360, when was the last time you watched F1 ?

this is the new rule for this year. if the engine goes, they can replace it but they start at the back of the grid, also if the main car breaks (gearbox etc) they can use the spare car, but have to swap engines over to avoid being penalised


For all the other people going on about taking it back to just driving, I completly agree, and these have been a lot of the new proposals for 2008, with some of them coming in for 2005

The long term aim is for ONE engine to last 4 races

Flavio is spot on, yes it is boring, but you cant blame Ferrari/MS you have to blame all of the other teams

The way I see it is this

Ferrari are way ahead of the other teams (NOT the biggest budget, I think that goes to Toyota) the reason is simple, they have the best TEAM, and one of the best drivers out there

The competition in the next 3 or 4 teams, Williams, Renault, Maclaren, and now BAR are so very close in terms of performance (and drivers almost) so they have to share the rest of the grid slots and points amongst themsleves, as not one of those teams/drivers are as consistent as Ferrari

If you removed Ferrari from F1, you would never know who would win from one race to the next, and that would make it great for viewers again

Also I blame Max & Bernie, as all of the rule changes have been designed to punish Ferrari, to allow the other teams to catch up

all IMHO of course

edited to add, the new Qualifying format is no longer to determine grid position, it is there purely for the Broadcasters & Sponsors, and Max & Bernie have both said that the new qualifying format (as it is changing again) will be decided by the Broadcasters & Sponsors, and NOT the teams

Chris L

Agree you can't blame MS for being a damn fine racing driver and you can't blame Ferrari for building the best car (and engine). What the hell was Williams playing at? Montoya's brakes practically fell off the car! The others have got to raise their game. F1 maybe a sport, but it is also entertainment.

If it carries on like this it will be in serious trouble. I really wish I'd gone to Silverstone today. I know that I would have seen a day of good racing at the BTCC - better than anything seen in F1. I'm a massive F1 fan and it really pains me to say this.

Today, I did something that I haven't done in a long long time, I turned off the Grand Prix - a very sad day in my books

Chris

Tiggers, even if you didn't mean it, your first post came across as insulting pretentious bollocks. I'm not surprised a few people were upset.

ProperCharlie

maybe, but i agree with his sentiments. i have had people telling me that f1 is boring for as long as i have been watching it (which is about as long as there's been a tv in the house). it gets tiring to hear people slag off f1 without any real analysis. i agree, it's not as entertaining as it has been, but the initail post was pretty silly - do ferrari really need to cheat to let MS win? ok they did it once when the championship was at stake (which i didn't agree with - and it was very embarrassing for both drivers), but in a straight race RB can't really compete.

farmer1

I assume you believe that it was a genuine mistake then. I still cannot help but feel that there was something very fishy going on.

tiggers

Chris L,

My post came across TO YOU as insulting pretentious bollocks and if it upset anyone then frankly I don't give a ****.

If you don't like F1 ignore it, if you don't understand it don't comment on it, if you still want to spout forth then I will have my say.

tiggers.

P.S. Just realised you're a moderator - that's some style you got there

*Sonic*

a few more times than once

Austria deliberate results rigging, then knocking Damon off the track, and then trying it with Villeneuve


Talking of BTCC, come on Oulton park, bring it on, will be down at Nickerbrook as per usual

ProperCharlie

it seemed a bit bizarre, yeah. but no-one is anywhere near MS, would it really matter if he had come second? i also don't think RB would have won without the pit-stop delay, in any case. although the cracked exhaust might have helped RB, if he had got near shuey.

farmer1

Fair assumption but this made damn sure he didn't.

Yes because he wouldn't have set/equalled another record.

jjones

sums up f1 perfectly when the only thing worth mentioning about the "race" is some ****ed up pit stop.

ProperCharlie

ok, i take your point. it just seems a bit hard to imagine someone going into the ferrari pits and saying: "look, you guys have to bring out the wrong tyres when Ruebens comes in, and then pretend to suddenly realise, and spend 10 seconds messing about finding the right tyres, ok?"

wouldn't it have been easier to turn his engine down using the telemetry gizmos?

^Qwerty^

Watched F1 for a number of years, and RB's pit stop has me shouting at the TV. It's difficult to track the times when they are doing different number of stops, and I don't belive MS had the exhaust problem when RB's pit stop when a bit wrong, but I can't help but wonder.....

Regardless if they did or not, it is clear that a number of people are all thinking the same thing, and that can't be doing the sport any good.

farmer1

The commentators did suggest that was happening. However I believe they reckoned a mistake would be more believeable.

New To Scoob

Sooooo boring today, yes MS is in the best package at the moment and yes he is arguably the best driver there "god that hurts saying that" but I also believe there was a slightly sneaky moment on Ferraris behalf, when MS's exhaust cracked and he was down on power for a few laps, pretty amazing how RB didn't close the gap in further, or was he not allowed too ?????

FLAT ERIC

iTrader: (1)

The only way to save F1 from boring itself to death is to do as in BTCC & give a weight penalty to winning drivers.All the gizmos in the world will not help if you have to lug another 25 kilos around the track.

Mark

Scoobs_4ever

The last time some bloke won 5 races in a row (I think he had moustache) the FIA changed the rules!!

Can't see this happening in this case tho.

MSc is probably the best F1 driver in the world and the best team - I think one fact said MSc hadn't had a mechanical failure/retirement since the German Gp in 2001!!!!!!!

Muffleman

I too used to be an F1 follower, getting up with sparrows fart to watch the Japanese and Australian races etc.

But EVERY RACE really is as dull as hell now - and has been for a few years ! It's no longer a sport for those quick thinking race drivers with ***** of iron, it's for those that can twiddle all those steering wheel dials and put in the odd good lap.

Yes MS is the best at F1, but even the mighty MS refused to try rallying as it's too dangerous. Now THERE'S a sport ! Rallying requires SOOOO much more skill and courage. 140mph on a loose surface inches away from trees and rocks ? No thank you say's MS, think I'll stick to my procession of F1 cars with me at the front. But lets not start the Rally vs. F1 thing again.

F1 is boring. In fact when the last GP was on, I watched the first corner and then went and mowed the lawn - without being nagged !!!

Matt

Brit_in_Japan

There is only really one area they need to address to make F1 more interesting again. Change the aerodynamic regulations. At the moment it is almost impossible at most circuits to overtake as cars cannot get close enough out of medium/high speed corners to get a tow down the straights. If they can solve this, we get overtaking and proper racing, rather than everything being decided on pit strategy and who can delay coming into the pits for 1 or 2 laps longer than someone else.

Are there any aero experts on scoobynet ? What would happen if you reduce the aero surfaces again (e.g. one element in rear wing) and reintroduce skirts to maintain downforce ? Are skirts less affected by dirty air than other aero devices ?

RoadrunnerV2

If F1 is sooo boring then lets here your comments on how you would like it to change?

Personally I would like the following looked into

Split the race into 2 x 1hr races.
Cars cannot be touched in between the first and second race.
In the second race the winner would start last etc aka TOCA
1 engine for entire weekend
Qualifying 30mins session for first race.
Allow cars to evolve to a certain extent - Would be great to see air brakes / dynamic wings introduced. however, no driving aids such as launch control etc
Bring back slick tyres

Muffleman

Okellydokelly

1) I agree, bring back slicks
2) I also agree, reduce electronic aids
3) Engine standardisation
4) Qualifying an avg. of 3 laps in a 1hour qualifying session

That should spice things up sufficiently, without removing the advantages teams would gain as a result of better chassis and aerodynamics engineering.
But with engine standardisation, any gains would be kept low.

Matt

WRX Jase

Speaking as an ex-F1 fan......

Why not just drop the pit stops - make them run the race from start to finish without stopping? That way when someone does have the sheer audacity to pass SuperSchuey at the start at least he'd have to retake the place on the track not by hopping in front in the pits? He (and everyone else) would have to overtake and that's what we all want to see isn't it????

I know that they haven't got the to do the full race on the fuel they can carry at the moment but that could be worked out (bigger tanks) also means they'd have to preserve their tyres but everyone would be in the same boat.

As things stand now I watch the start if I'm around and then switch over after the first couple of corners. Let's face it there's seldom any more action is there? F1 is no longer a spectator sport. Wasn't the British SuperBikes on at the same time on Beeb? I'm not a biker but watching the race on the other side showed what a motorsport should be about.

Just my 2p's worth.

Sbradley

Make F1 more interesting?

Easy - take off the wings.

All you need to do is look at some footae from the 1967 and 68 seasons to see what I mean. Massive power with crap tyres and no aerodynamics. Overtaking everywhere and drifting round corners instead of the Playstation driving we have now.

Oh, and lose the electronics as well. Traction control and ABS? That's not skill. I understand the car nows where it is by GPS and even has the capability to brake and gearshift automatically according to what the computer says. That may not be in place yet, but it soon will be and then we'll have a generation of F1 pilots who can't even drive properly. Best get 8 year olds, then, for the optimum Power to Weight...

SB

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Can't be bothered to read the whole thread.

F1 is ultra dull as a spectator sport. I think until they remove the aerodynamic grip and rely on mechanical grip it will stay the same boring event it is today.

sorry if that point has already been made.

Chris L

I've followed F1 for the best part of 20 years. There have been times when if has become boring and predictable (anyone remember Mclaren winning 15 of the 16 races?), but there have also been times when it has been the greatest sport to watch. F1 is in danger over becoming an also ran if it is not careful. Designing new tracks with extra slow corners to show advertising on cars is not the way to go (Bahrain....). Total dominance by one team and one driver is NOT exciting for 5 seasons!

As a committed F1 fan, I have defended it many times (on this board and elsewhere), but if you cannot see that F1 has become boring (and I'm well aware of the tactical and technical side of the sport), then you are deluding yourself. F1 like any sport is above all entertainment, the fans will vote with their feet if they are not seeing the kind of close racing that everyone wants.

Engine outputs are set to break 1000 bhp soon, which puts us back in the turbo era. The difference is that aerodynamics have improved so much that it will be virtually impossible for a car to follow closer than a second - you can't overtake in those situations. It needs a dramatic reduction in downforce to make the racing closer. Indy racing in the States seems to manage it quite well!

The A1 Grand Prix series has got it right. A grid of 23 cars, identical engines and chassis, with driver skill being the main criteria. There will be strict controls on technology and aerodynamics - personally I can't wait.

I've got tickets for the British GP this year and I love going, but I have really started to question whether this will be my last one until the rules change.

Chris

Re-Bitten Hero

I'll come back to answer this thread after lunch...

Richard
-----
Infineon and Ferrari F1 team development engineer and track support...

C

God there islot of tosh in this post!

Persecute MS because he hapens to be SO much better than everyone else? it's hardly his fault is it?

Ll the other teams need to pull thier finger out & get competitive, rather than bringing in bollocks like one engine, wierd qualifying etc etc. if the drivers then increased thier skill levels as well it might be more fun.

They all moan because they are crap at the end of the day!

Probably would TBH - would probably destroy all competition even more so than F1.

Ever watch the documentary about him? his sensory input levels are HUGE in comparison to en the next best F1 driver - he can literally interpret info SO much quicker than enyone can even consider. They say when they are driving mid race, most drivers are concentrating so much they can only squeek a few words out to the pits each lap.

MS can hold a conversation with the pit crew, when racing, fighting for position or whatever, telling them exactly whats going on with the car, tyres etc - thats how he wins!.

The race before this one he was 190mph flat out over a crest - Martin Brundle describled it as a 'hang onto the wheel with everything you have' moment .... In comparison he is adjusting the brake balance one handed for the next series of bends...

It's not his fault it's boring - it's everyone elses who are not a patch on him in terms of driver skill.

brickboy

Why don't Bernie & Max implement the changes that all the DRIVERS say would make it exciting again?

They ALL say the following: reduce downforce, give back the big slicks. In other words, mechanical grip NOT aerodynamic grip. Simple. Don't they ever wonder why bike racing (WSB, MotoGP etc) is all of a sudden very popular?

But god only knows why they keep p1ssing about with smaller engines etc etc. Right now, the whole of Formula 1 is simply re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic :rollseyes:

RoadrunnerV2

I take it the FIA do any major changes until the contract expires - thus roll on 2008

Re-Bitten Hero

Ok, firstly one thing that annoys me - they CANNOT reprogramme stuff from the pits or do any kind of remote control. It's banned (as of Spain 2002) to send data to the car, full stop. Of course, the drivers can use the switches on the steering wheel to change the ECU map to save more fuel, or use a few more revs occasionally for overtaking. There's no GPS or anything like that, sorry but that's just urban myth.

About the current qualifying system - it was the teams that proposed this system, not the FIA. Now however everyone agrees it's boring and unsuitable for TV and it will change mid-season.

The reason for smaller engines etc is to try and bring down the astronomical costs of engine building - the top manufacturers spend up to a billion Euros per year on engines, which is unsustainable.

Removing aerodynamic downforce is a good idea and will be implemented over the next year or two by standardising wings; similarly traction control will be banned too. Launch control is already banned. At the same time we should see the return of slicks, which tests the driver's control of the car at the limit.

There is, of course, no ABS, EBD, adaptive dampers or stability control on F1 cars.

We already have one engine per race weekend, and will see that expanded to two weekends next year, and 6 weekends in 2006.

Automatic gearshifts were banned for this year, the driver must now initiate all gearshifts.

Getting rid of the red and white rumble strips - nonsense. They are there to STOP the driver cutting the curbs as they are vicious and cause lots of problems for the under-floor aerodynamics and suspension components. Put grass there and the drivers will cut the corners completely...

I had to laugh at some of these suggestions:

5) if any driver fails to challange or overtake in any race ....black flag!!!

LOL I sincerely hope you're not serious


I'm afraid the reason for the current domination is a superb team at Ferrari, coupled with an extremely intelligent and fast driver. Most drivers are averagely intelligent, and tend to be happy just to do the driving. Schumacher is actually very intelligent, and understands mechanically how a car works and can therefore give direct feedback on how to set up the car. Few other drivers can do this - Webber is one, though, for instance.

Bring on the questions

Richard