Scoty

Hi Douggie,

Praise where praise is due, Andy is very good at what he does.
The support is always there, even when he is on Holiday

I had boost creep on the TD05/06 20G and contacted Andy to see if there was anything he could do with it, he told me to bring it over anytime and he would port it while I waited!!

If Andy had been mapping when I first got a remappable ECU, I would have went to him first, no questions.

I could never get a hold of Sam when I wanted the Link remapped, I kept trying for a month or two hoping he was just very busy and would eventualy reply or answer.
I never got the reply so decided to try and find somone else, Bob was the only other mapper for the Link afaik, but I didn't want to travel that far, so I started looking at changing the harware.
I was very keen to see what Sam could have done to the map when the TD05 FE went on, I know he is doing very well with his and other EVO's with the GEMS just now too, so my lack of confidence wasnt in his mapping just the support.

Steve was another case of companies rubbishing actual proven/acheivable power targets, please dont ask me to go into it in any detail as I have agreed not to on the BBS, it's all I am saying.
Steve makes a living from supplying/fitting/mapping the GEMS, my intentions are not to discredit him or put any quesion marks on his ability to map which could possibly effect his future, my intentions are to let everyone know that to date, by far the best support, value for money, and actual results has been with Andy F.
As far as Steve know's I'm still waiting to get my mapping finished after he sent me a new board a couple of months ago!!
I only did generate over £20K in sales for this guy, I can see why he wouldn't keep in touch?!


No!!

dougies549

Hi Scoty

We need to meet up till i get a go in the car

Yeah will agree Andy has a good reputation with his Turbo's never said any diffrent.

I hear what you are saying M8 about the diffrent mapper's, but if you were wanting to see what Sam's mapping is Like on the TD05 Front entry then all you have to do is look at Alan's car.

What kind of down pipe you running with ?

I don't know about not getting hold o Sam as i have never had that kind of problem . As for Steve then you can tell me when we see each other.

So is that it now or what you got planned next for it? Have you had it on the roller's since we spoke last?

Catch ya Later M8 Glad to see you are back on the board though, You going to any of the meet's ?

Cheers Dougie

T-uk

doubt there would be much between them but alan does have the phase 2 "big port" heads to help. I would love to see these two cars on the rollers on the same day.

Andy.F

The Phase 2 does indeed have bigger port heads and higher lift cams but that doesn't seem to make great deal of difference in my experience to date.
I thought Alan had removed the Link which Sam mapped and fitted a GEMS ? I know he had excellent results with the Link, not seen/heard anything of the GEMS results ?
Would be very interested to find out if it has more power or torque now though

Andy

AlanG

I have no problem with it, if you want to go public.

Scoty

The downpipe is a 3 inch Hayward and Scott.
The last time mines was on the rollers was when Sam mapped it a few years ago with the Link.
I don't have any power figures yet since Andy mapped it, but for starters, the idle and power delivery are much better, and it's still running which is a big improvement since the GEMS.
It doesn't hesitate or stutter anymore, doesn't idle at 1200 rpm, doesn't feel as though the antilag is slightly on (which it was) even though the switch was off.
Antilag? what Antilag, it supports antilag, but once it's fitted,
Not saying this is the case with all GEMS, just pointing out it's clear to see why I got pissed off with it?


I would also love to see the two cars on the rollers on the same day

AlanG

Interesting comments, though i think there was some dubiety over why the ECU failed in the first place?
"Anti-lag being on when switched off." Sounds very strange to me, though i can't tell you how the ECU works to give that facility.

"Idle at 1200rpm?" Seen this on one other MY99 car but don't have that problem on mine. Idles spot on both hot and cold.

The only thing for a road car that i feel that anti-lag could benefit is on those which have a laggy turbo, but that's about it.

From my experience i disagree with your comment on two of the mappers you mention. Sam and Bob have always been supportive, or indeed always got back to me with what i needed, or needed to know. The other one?....well....now that you have no vested interest in *that* group buy.....

dougies549

Hi Scoty

You on Comission? Ha Ha Ha

Out of curiosity why does ever one want to see Alan's car against diffrent car's on the same day at rolling road's?

Does no one believe his result's?

Cheers Dougie

Andy.F

Dougie

Are you and Alan really the same person

It's always the same with 'private' rolling road sessions (just like my 440bhp one was ! )

Andy

dougies549

Hi Andy

If we were the same person would there be 2 post's at the same time?

So that will be a 'no' to my question then?

Cheres Dougie

Andy.F

Are you sitting on his knee then

drb5

iTrader: (4)

top quality!

Sam Elassar

hi guys

i am not really that interested in you are better than me crap.

http://www.lancerregister.com/showth...239#post436239


i am very happy for scott getting results with his car, i am very busy and selective with cars that i do.

i do this as a hobby.

sam

Andy.F

And Sam has in his MLR profile

"it is not enough to be just one step ahead of the competition."

nuf said !

Scoty

I still don't know why the GEMS ECU failed, he never got back to me after I sent the faulty one back, when I got the replacement board I decided not to fit it and to sell it instead.
The idle was deliveratly set to 1200 on mines to make it "sound like a rally car"

I can't comment on Bob's support from personal experience as I havent delt with him, but I have read a lot of good feedback about him.
Sam's obviously been supportive but not with me.
As I've already said I would have been more than happy for Sam to re-map it had I been able to get in touch with him, personaly I don't think he wanted to do it which is fair enough.

I do still have a great interest in both the group buys and am still very interested to know how happy everyone is with what they got and the support they have received, "especialy" that mines ran into problems.
Everyone stopped leaving feedback on the thread after the 3rd car was done which is a bit worrying, to add to that I've been talking off the BBS and there are problems, which will hopefully be fixed soon.

Scoty

Don't think it's so much as different cars, more to do with very similar spec cars to see what the differences would be between the two etc....

dougies549

Hi Andy

No need for me to sit on Alan's knee i do my own thing no matter what, But if that is what happens in your little Cleek then no prob's ,what ever rock's your boat

How do private session's differ from rolling road day's? isn't it just a tool to measure figure's?

Havn't you all have used the roller's on private session's for your benifit's

And yes i thought your 440 was a really good result no matter when it was done.

Hi Scoty

Nae M8 it's no just about that, the problem is that people don't believe it was possiably for Alan to get what he got and wont come out and say it.

Cheers Dougie

AlanG

Whoops! Perhaps i shouldn't have said what i said then!! until it was finished.

Don't really understand this. If both cars are the same spec then surely they give similar results? What's to compare?

T-uk

who has ever said that dougie? , I have never heard anyone say or post that.

I do not doubt alan got 415bhp in the conditions that day, just like I believe andy got 440bhp on his. I was there when jb got 406bhp during a private run and without any changes got 390bhp at a group day a few days later. iirc this came down to temperature compensation but at the end of the day it is the printed figure that we use.

I am very interested to see alans car as part of a group day so I can compare with other known cars in the same conditions. his car is running very similar to mine just with 20g/big bore headers and I want to see how the curves look and where the peaks are. I cannot compare on the circuit or drag with alan otherwise I would.

what I find strange is alan's attitude , if people are questioning his results , rather than silence them, why does he not have the confidence to go to a group day and still probably manage over 400bhp? you and him always used to make digs to jb and andy about fuel additives and how your cars are running a "true" road spec on plain fuel and yet alans can't be part of a group day

different rules for different people there I think!!!

there is a similar type of discussion between the CRD car and trouts car after there recent drag times and terminals. the cars where timed at different events so should we really compare to with in a baw-hairs difference?

BTW, I have a lot of respect for sam. he was one of the first to really "power up" a scoob , kicked it's c"nt while doing it and still managed to sell it with it's original engine after all the abuse

AlanG

My attitude? What's strange about it?


Is that what you think John? Seems to me you never listened to a word i said when this topic originally blew up. You know very well my reasons for not being part of this "community".
I stayed away from here for a while because of the way things get stirred on this board. Seems to me some things will never change.

Scoty

Alan, was trying to take the focus away from Dougies comment about people not believing your RR results and stop it blowing up again.

Know what you are saying, though it would have been a good day oot more than anything else

AlanG

The way i see it Scoty is that figures and comparisons don't really matter.

Look at it this way...
The TD05/06-20G is a proven 400+BHP turbo. As seen on other threads where people have posted results such as Fangoria, Banks, sg72, AndyF, etc etc. All these people have a achieved a minimum of 400 any way you look at it. Take Andy's for example at 440. Andy said he used an additional additive in the fuel to achieve it. So what? It's still a genuinely minimum 400BHP turbo if you take the fuelling and air temp on the day into account.
Same as mine. I didn't expect 400 when i put mine on, but was genuinely surprised to see that figure. What made it more encouraging was seeing subsequent improvements in figures by leaning out the mixture in certain areas. At the end of that session, both the rolling road operator and i agreed that it doesn't matter what the end figure is cause taking into account errors,temperatures etc, it is still a genuine 400 BHP car.

I needed a figure for the magazine, that was the only reason i went up. If i achieved 360BHP, that was what was going in the magazine. I honestly expected 380 TBO, so seeing over 400 on the screen...well..you can imagine how i felt! Same as you will, when you put yours on the rollers.

Double edged sword though. If i achieved 360BHP, the whole thing would be debated about bad mapper, something wrong with the car etc etc etc. You can't win.
What kicked the whole thing off regards my figures was down to your mail to me with regards to Steve Simpson. That on it's own would have been no problem as at that time i didn't know the guy, hadn't ever met him or spoke to him. It was the subsequent E-mails about the thread i put up which reached my Inbox that made me realise that there is too much jealousy in the Subaru community which is a shame. For some very strange reason, certain individuals (not posted on this thread yet btw) aren't happy with seeing others getting good results, which is totally alien to me cause going back to my old Ford days, everybody, and i mean everybody, wanted to help and actively encouraged others to push the boundaries at that time with no malice.
In this "community", there is now a veil of secrecy which has probably stemmed from threads such as this. We've seen it in the past with other members electing to stay away from this board. This is a shame because we're all aiming for the same goal.Why can't we "get on with each other"?

This is why i don't want to get involved so much now. Those you thought were what you could count on as "friends", turned out to be nothing more than selfish individuals who wanted to use you for their own means. In othe words, they wanted to find out as much about the... "competition" as possible.

T-uk

I still think the curves show how suitable a turbo is for the engine/rpm limit. different headers, ecu......all might change the curves with similar peak readings and it is this I would like to see in the same conditions. it is a crude way but the other option is track or drag. scoobyshootout will be the best comparison of them all so if you sign up let me know .

so basically andy and jb get grief for fuel additives not giving a true road/daily figure but you can optimise your road map between runs. different rules or what?

well what would you call it when someone posts a thread about getting the highest figures from a UK block and then runs for cover as soon as questions are asked? that is how it looks and I have said it to you before

think about what your typing alan. would secrecy be going to a group day and then telling everyone your not running and then when everyone elso has gone home , you throw your car on the rollers? , long before you got really secretive and did your private run

AlanG

T-uk
If i read this correctly, my last attendance at a rolling road day when this topic of fuel used on who's cars, it wan't Dougie that was there, but Tecknopete? You two had a bit of a ding dong about it?

You make mention of silencing my critics John. Ermm..why should i? We have had long conversations before about this and you made mention of Andy going through the same thing but he silenced his critics time and again after proving him and his car were capable of doing what he was claiming. So much so, that whatever Andy says now is respected by those on this board and any claim by him is taken as genuine.
As i said at the time, that was Andy's perogative to go down that road. Perhaps he can say why he did it. Me? I'm not looking to gain any credibilty. I don't feel encouraged enough to go out and silence them because i'm only doing this for my own benefit, not to go out and "prove"

AlanG

T-uk

When did i give "grief" about JB, Andy using additives?? and why the statement about optimising between runs?

AlanG

I haven't claimed it to be the highest figures from a uk block. I have asked the question though.

T-uk

pete,dougie,yourself all have the same thoughts .

my own car is not mapped for any additives but I do add them for safety on the rollers/track/drag but I see not problem with them if people note them in the spec. I tried methanol for the first time yesterday and road dyno showed no gain but I would not let jb advance it to get the gains, the car did pull smoother though.

pull the other one LOL , threads on s/net and mag features. your a supastar

AlanG

If you remember on that day John, yes you are correct i wasn't going to run as the car was not ready due to still needing mapping and you are well aware of that, but also on that day, the proceedings finished a lot earlier than expected and the decision was taken to put it on and see what's needed to be done.

Bear in mind John that the turbo on the car at that time was a turbo specced by Lateral Performance.

With all the crap that was flying about with regard to Marks turbo's with AF/JB/MA, did you really expect me to go on the rollers gung ho and then everything blows up on the board because "Mark's turbo" didn't produce the goods!!

You would all have had a field day!!

AlanG

So what are you saying i'm doing this for?

T-uk

can't be arsed searching through the threads and emails but you have always said how you cannot run additives because the wife drives the car and how you need it to be wife safe. dougie has always commented on the fuel used probably through pete or sam but you have all tried to basically say at some points it is cheat stuff.

the mention of optimising runs was because this is something that does not happen on the rollers at group days. you usually drive in, get one run possibly two but not 1/2 a dozen to cook the figures.