yahtzee

hi used to have a legacy but now sold sounds like fuel cut if it only happens under load ie when in gear and but your foot down.... also try coilpacks (fitted on end of spark plugs),spark plugs etc coilpacks are the worst culprit for mysterious misfires

if no check engine light on for a faulty sensor etc .. all rest fine then sounds like fuel cut overboosting for a split second ecu cuts boost if its a hybrid turbo then you need a manual boost control or electronic ...

cheers will

Delboy2

I would also suggest to check the coilpacks because if cracked they tend to breakdown under boost conditions and whilst removed also check the plugs.

Cheers

carlegacy

ok car seemed a little better after fitting mbc so try altering the actuator arm turned it back three turns and car got a lot worse.found tho that the mbc doesn't really alter the boost much what am i doing wrong i plumbed it in between the turbo and wastegate.as per instructions.also is there any kind of test i can do to find out exactly what is the problem.also what boost should i be seeing in bar please as thats what my gauge reads.also should the boost gauge be plumbed into the inlet .

carlegacy

ok i might just be winning here cleaned the boost control relay and the car was a hundred times better however not perfect couple of things need fine tunning first so here goes my questions,how do i clean the relay properly would some wd40 be ok to clean it with also what boost should i be seeing from my legacy its a 1992 model saloon and my boost gauge is in bar so i am guessing about .9 of a bar this is purely going on the cars reaction as it only seems to react badly at about 1 bar.please help asap as i want to go out and feel the boost ha ha.

sideforce

Hi Carl

Your boost control valve is not connected so you wont feel any differance through cleaning it. You need to set your boost using the MBC under 14psi (i think) as with the standard ECU map the fuel cut happens at 14.5psi. So set it up around 12psi to start with. As the first thing to do is to cure overboost.

My car is now running 18psi no problems, due to having a new ecu chip fitted. (THANKS YAHTZEE!!!!) and my fuel cut is now set at 18.5psi. I have a MBC fitted to cap the boost, and the old thing flies..

Re fitting the standard boost control valve is not a option for you i dont think. The hybrid turbo you have will have very different set up to standard so you will need i think to stay with the MBC to control boost.

If you are not seeing much change with the MBC turned in and out there must be some other form of boost control on the car i would think. Unless it is only regulated by the wastegate? i dont know mutch about the garret..my car respinds to half a turn on the boost control device.

It took a lot of fixing to sort the fuel cut on mine, ultimately it was only via the VOS ECU chip that i got it sorted properly with the car fuelling correctly at higher boost.

carlegacy

hi sideforce,

going to alter the boost to as low as i can gat it tomorrow and see what happens.but when it was boosting to half a bar before it still played up but only on heavy acceleration.on light throttle letting the revs pick up slowly the car absolutely flies.i have to get it sorted but i have a feeling only a chip will do this i do have a spare ecu i could send off what sort of price am i looking at and where do i get it done.

StickyMicky

if its a hybrid then 1 bar of air will probably be a lot more then 1 bar on the standerd turbo

i wouldnt remove the turbo as its probably really good
try and get sum pics up of exactly whats under your bonnet and show us the pipeing

i think its probably got sum kind of boost controller sumwhere (maybe hidden)

carlegacy

got some pics ready how do i upload them for you to see

carlegacy

got pics on a image hosting site these are the urls,sorry only way i could get them on.
www.putfile.com/pic.php?pic=060214065425512.jpg
www.putfile.com/pic.php?pic=060214063949749.jpg
www.putfile.com/pic.php?pic=060214065853625.jpg
www.putfile.com/pic.php?pic=060214065353010.jpg
www.putfile.com/pic.php?pic=060214061123187.jpg
www.putfile.com/pic.php?pic=060214060228610.jpg

sideforce

Hmmm yeah, the turbo (Garrett) is prolly good - but for sure only slightly better than the standard. This one is designed for a reltively light boost and early spool on a Saab 900 LPT.

Anyway the pics help a lot. There is no boost valve on the car at all - it is completely removed - so that is out the picture. I still cannot work out what was controlling boost before, and cant see anything in the pics. It may be just the wastgate actuator...weird.

The MBC is in the right spot - though you need to shorten the pipe to between the actuator and the MBC as short as possible as this helps control boost better from what i have read.

It may be a good idea to also move the boost gauge pick up point to this area too to get a absolute accurate boost reading...?!?

BUT !!

I dont think (IMHO) you are going to cure this, short of having a ECU Remap for this engine and turbo combination. I can give you the details of the guy who provided my new chip which cost 150 to buy no problem.

This is a full group N MAP for the ECU - so it is mapped for the standard Turbo and works with the one slightly larger above it too. There is no guarentee it would help here at all, as your turbos spooling and boost graph could be way, way different..

When i looked into the Garret when thinking of buying your car i could not see the reason for it. It will not provide mutch if anything of a performance gain and wont provide more boost etc as it is not bigger turbo than the standard..

I would suggest that the turbo was fitted as a cheaper alternative to getting a new standard one, but i may be wrong...

If it was me i would ddefinately get a standard turbo.

You cannot simply plug into the ECU on the legacy and map it, you have to have a chip designed and built. The chip i have transforms the car. It should be making over 270 bhp with it, fuel cut is at 18.5 PSI and max boost at 18psi and it absolutely flies. It idles perfectly at 600rpm and is as smooth as silk everywhere. Best 150 i have ever spent in terms of a perfomance gain.

With the bits you have already plus the chip you will have a superb very quick car for a little money really mate. I would ditch the Garret - Sell it on EBAY - and go standard or TDO4 Turbo. Prolly work out in your favour cost wise, Fit this chip and laugh ya nads off...

With this chip and your bits your on a winner, or you could be chasing this problem for a long time mate.

Remember someone once converted your car to run LPG and i think they may have ****ed the origional turbo then and fitted this to get it going again.

carlegacy

hi sideforce thanks for your input i would appreciate the details of the person for a chip as i will try this route first.i will take your advice and move the boost gauge tho as i dont think its 100 percent accurate at the mo.reason for trying chip first is you say this turbo isn't much bigger so the chip will probably control it and i agree with you there as if i play with the boost enough i can get the fuel cut down to almost feeling like a misfire and it doesn't happen til the gauge says 1.1 bar.strangely tho if i get it to this point i try turning boost down to .9 bar and the fuel cut gets worse.strange but the car apart from this flies so a chip first i think.also i have a spare ecu so if needs be this can be sent away.

as for the lpg conversion that was fine it was converted at our garage and run fine this problem has been there all along just simon put up with it cos if you just back off the throttle a bit it goes fine i am heavy footed tho ha ha.

Delboy2

Looking at your piccies :-



The picture above shows the Boost Solenoid - It will need to connected at present because the ECU will throw a CEL if removed without a Resistor taking its place.
The current turbo boost pressure was controlled purely by actuator preload, the actuator arm is adjustable so it may be possible to lower the boost from this. The 'bonnet' on the actuator is also looks removable so it may be possible to gain access to the diaphram and spring - fitting a weaker spring to lower boost pressure. Failing that a new actuator may be required.

As far as removing the turbo is concerned this may prove more trouble as the Downpipe flange and uppipe flange will probably be different from the standard fitment as they would have been changed to accomodate the Garrett.

The early ECU's are mapped by fitting an additional Eprom/Board in the ECU with another map programmed - This is ECU dependant though.

Cheers

sideforce

Yeah, there is a boost control solenoid, but the boost valve is not there. So as you say all adjustment is and must be via the wwastegate. Try this as well Carl, just adjusting the wastegate actuator down a bit, .

The chip is made by a guy in Aus, costs 150 and like i say transformed my car. Have a look at http://www.rslibertyclub.org/forums/...pic.php?t=2228

Thats all about the VOS chip designed especially for the legacy (or liberty in Aus) contact details for the guy are on there. He is VERY helpfull..

Try and get your boost gauge in the same line as the MBC to read accurately.

carlegacy

if i re plumbed the boost solenoid in where does it plumb in and which side of it should i put the mbc.

Delboy2

You cannot use the MBC with the 3 port boost solenoid. If you try with the 3-port you will have to remove the MBC. TBH lowering the boost via the actuator if possible would be your best bet atm as currently its pre-load is prolly greater than or equal to what the ECU's boost target is so you will prolly not achieve anything.

Cheers

carlegacy

ok thanks.i have heard of fuel cut defenders sounds dodgy to me but it would tell me its defo fuel cut but should i fit a knock sensor first or should i just leave well alone.

Delboy2

Fuel Cut Defencers are ok for raising the boost cut but ideally shouldn't be used without a Knocklink and AFR keeping an eye on the engine and fuelling. It would be easier/safer to try :-

Cheers

Turbo_Steve

Ok...a few points:

Fuel Cut on the Legacy ECU is at 1.1Bar (or less).
In your situation, you should only be using the MBC. You should have NO preload on the actuator arm, if using the MBC. That means it should be tight: no play.

I would then make sure the MBC is fitted the correct way round. Which MBC do you have? A Dawes?

Once you have achieved this, tighten the MBC up fully, and go for a drive....you should not see more than 0.7Bar of boost.
You can then gradually adjust the boost up to about 0.9Bar. I would NOT run it any higher than this, as you will see significant detonation at 1.0Bar if your exhaust / intake is not standard. This is from experience

If you're in the Midlands, drop me a line and we'll get together.

sideforce

i think you should also try this...

forget the FCD, thats a dodgy work around not a solution. Look into the chip, and on the rs liberty site there is loads of onfo on the vos chip. Also there are free designs for FCD's on there for legacy's - loads of good info.

whats the acctuator set up like now?

The garrett was modified to fit the standard legacy up ipe according to the info i have..?!?