imlach

Err....no. A 2nd hand car sold privately is generally "sold as seen". You have no legal comeback.

Buyer beware as they say. Hard, but true

rossi_p

iTrader: (26)

Scoobug - you got my sympathy.... unfortunately i've found reliability all down to luck.

Strangely the most reliable motor i've had was a 205 GTI, not what you'd expect!

TopBanana

You could get an independant motor engineer to produce a report saying how likely it was that the mods caused the gearbox failure. I would imagine that it would conclude 'highly unlikely'. You should then be able to get Subaru to pay for most if not all of the repair

Jiggerypokery

imlach: Yes, second hand cars sold privately usually are "sold as seen", but in this case he may have been told that the car has 6 months warrantee, in which case the car was incorrectly described. Scoobug, does the advert for the car mention the warrantee? If so, there may be a case for you to take up with trading standards (i.e. a case against the seller, not Subaru).

jjones

no dice, it is a private sale.

MJW

'Sold as seen' means free from warranty. The car was sold with a supposed 6 months manufacturers warranty, which the seller must have known was invalid. Might be worth a phone call to the CAB if nothing else ..

imlach

Even if it was sold with warranty, the seller did nothing wrong. If IM dispute any claim, it is not the fault of the seller. The warranty still stands as a 'sellable' item on the description. The seller may not have even claimed on the warranty, and therefore wouldn't be aware of this.

You'd be in a very grey area regarding any comeback to the private seller. I had a SS exhaust on my car, but the dealer told me it wouldn't affect the warranty for any unrelated part of the car. Therefore, I'd go as far to say I could sell it "with warranty" quite rightly.

Private buying/selling is like that. Most people wouldn't admit to a huge smash in a car they were selling.

To be honest, some Subaru dealers use logic, and some don't. You need to find a sympathetic one who realises the problem is perhaps unrelated to the mods, and go from there.

speedking

Scoobug needs to answer before everyone does too much speculation.

imlach

Irrelevant. A car can have a FSSH and mods. A FSSH does not mean a warranty is valid even if mods are done. It is part of it, but if you mod the car during the warranty period, the dealer doesn't care.

chiark

*cough* Fraudulent claim *cough*. If it all gets out of hand, you could end up in very hot water. Criminal offense and all that.

Your best best is to continue with the dealer. IMHO, the warranty is not void by fitting a filter and exhaust. If you knackered the maf, or were suffering from running lean / det then I can see that being a problem, but adding 20hp or less will not eat a gearbox.

Cheers,
Nick.

scoobys20mgh

I'm certainly no legal eagle, but I'm sure when I was looking at second hand cars, the parkers guide (not the bible I know before anyone starts!) mentioned something about rights, think speaking to the CAB might be a good idea??? probably get shot down in flames here but hey ho.......

imlach

The other issue is that this happened 3 weeks after the sale. In a private sale, I suspect that is FAR too long for any comeback anyway. The seller could just counterclaim that he suspects the new owner was abusive to the car. There is no way of proving anything sadly.

imlach

I don't even know if trading standards could help. It is a private sale, not from a trading company.

CAB could offer advice only, and I suspect that advice would be small claims court at best (£750 limit?), but I suspect it wouldn't get that far. Not enough evidence etc.

Your best bet is to hammer away at your dealer and try to persuade them to review their decision.

DarkStar66

What is the maximum torque/power rating for this gearbox? If a dealer can fit a PPP without invalidating the warrantee then surely they can't imply a few minor mods can wreck your gearbox!?

speedking

That's not the point Imlach. If the car has never been near a Subaru dealer (as some company/hire/fleet/rally cars haven't) then IM will look a lot less favourably on any claim. Even though the gearbox oil is not changed in the first 20,000 miles. Nothing to do with mods. AIUI only year one warranty is Subaru and IM responsible for the balance. They make the rules and I suspect that FSSH is one of them.

We haven't even touched on whether the car is UK/Euro/JDM

PhilA

FSSH will definately be a "small print" condition of your warranty. I thought you could fit mods as long as you don't try and claim for faults in that area. But the mods you described have nothing to do with a gearbox? Makes me worry about my "subtle" mods now.

ian_sadler

If it's got Subaru UK paperwork then there's only one option.

hawkeye

a lot of the problem firstly is down to the dealer, how on earth a changed filter for instance could wreck a gearbox is beyond me, but IM (like any insurance company) firstly DONT want to pay hence they try everything to get out of paying..... im sorry sir your fart's the wrong smell we wont pay etc etc if the dealer has anything about them then they'll help....... but im sure if you'd bought the car from them they would be "more" helpfull...

hope you get it sorted sad state of affairs why oh why people cant be genuine when they sell things i dont know..... am i the only person who will only sell things if they work.....


hawk

Brit_in_Japan

Even with a private sale the vendor (person selling) must not misrepresent any details of the car. If they knowingly misrepresent the history or condition then they are leaving themselves open to legal action in the future. Not many people take this route as they think that "sold as seen" means there is no comeback on the vendor. Not true.

A friend of mine bought a BMW 325 privately and paid what he believed was a fair price. The vendor had given him a photocopy of the old MOT and put a new one on for him. However when something (minor) went wrong with the car my mate took it to the BMW dealer where it had originally been serviced. Their service records showed that the car had actually done about 40,000 miles more than was on the clock. In other words the previous owner had clocked it to increase the resale.

So my mate contacted a solicitor and a letter was sent, basically saying that he had fraudulently misrepresented the details of the car and he wanted to sell it back for the original purchase price. It also advised the vendor contact a solicitor. The upshot was that more than 6 months after purchase my mate sold the car back to the guy for the original purchase price.

StickyMicky

tell that to the bloke on ebay selling a 93 wrx as a 280bhp model lol
he got arsey when i pointed out the error of his ways

speedking

I've seen no mention of any paperwork yet.

Scoobug

Gave up on the dealership & phoned Subaru direct. Apparently all of Subaru customer service are at the motor show. 4 hours later eventually spoke to someone who actually managed to confirm..... nothing. 3 weeks in. 1 major fault & they can't organise sod all.

Oh and to those supportive Scooby owners out there - No I didn't know it was modified apart from the exhaust - I drive 'em cos I like 'em not cos I know what's under the bonnet, I didn't know this site existing until I needed help and found it via a search.

Only bought the Scooby cos they were supposed to be reliable & quick. Well Mine is neither - bloody good choice.

hawkeye

oh dear.......

pflowers

Just because you bought a car you had not checked out properly and you have had your fingers burnt, why blame Subaru ? They didn't mess with it or whatever else has happened to it, blame the jerk who sold it to you.

Thie same thing could happen with any make of car.

As far as I am concerned if you were not technically minded enough to notice the mods or properly check out the history, you should have got an independant inspection done, then you would have at least had some comeback.

Scoobug

Mods are de-cat (which I knew about) plus dump valve & induction kit (which I didn't - engines all look the same to the uninitiated)' Uk car, paperwork up-to-date & fSsh. Serviced by the dealership 6 days before the big bang.

Just been told the car will be off the road for at least 3 weeks - gearbox would be on back-order even if/when Subaru agree the warranty claim (after an inspection visit). All the teeth stripped from 3rd gear cog in gearbox. I guess 45mph in 3rd gear is 'serious abuse'.

3 weeks on the road, 4 weeks in the garage, £3000 repair bill. 7 weeks shear shyte.

Evo Viii next time.

hawkeye

hold on you knew about the de-cat???? how??

did the owner tell you it was decatted?

mutant_matt

If IM won't pay for it under warranty then don't get it fixed at a Subaru dealer. Get it done by a specialist (Like Rally Colin) and you will probably get a better quality job done and it will almost certainly be cheaper.

What's the Gearbox oil level like? It's a known issue on the 5 speed that unless the level is overfilled by 5mm, 3rd gear doesn't get much lubrication.

Also, obviously, most of the damage was done before it finally broke whilst you happened to be doing just 45mph.

Lastly, all cars break, even bullet proof ones (which Subaru's are not) - especially if abused.

Good Luck,

Matt.

Jiggerypokery

De-cat and dump valve can be used as an excuse by dealers to refuse warrantee work, general consensus on here is that these type of mods require a nod from a friendly dealer before assuming anything. Even then, a nod means very little when the **** hits the fan.


EVO VIII next time? Good luck! Check out the www.lancerregister.com before you assume things will be any better. Hint: do a search for "clutch".

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Very sorry to hear about your bad luck.

Just my two cents: Its not entirely true that you don't have any comeback from a private sale. The seller must be truthful about the car and describe it accurately. If they claimed it was standard knowing that not to be the case and you have incurred losses because of this misrepresentation then you can claim compensation from them. You will have to provide evidence that they deliberately mislead you though, so if you don't have some kind of documentation, this might be difficult.

In future, always get a private car professionally inspected, no matter how mint is may seem! Also, consider a private warranty in future, not cheap, but then neither is a gearbox!

I hope you've not got your fingers too badly burned and wish you all the best with future purchases.

Best.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Also another thing...some manufacturer/dealer warranties also have a clause in them which invalidates it if the failure was due to abuse, that's regardless of mods.

Obviously they'd have to proove it, in order to say that, but it's possible.

What I'd try in this situation is to take the car back home, or to an independent garage and get it returned to standard at own cost (2nd hand parts if possible, to reduce cost). Then take the car to a different dealers to sort the gearbox under warrantee.

edit: Just realised how old this thread is