Bullet proof Subaru's - yeah right.
#31
Originally Posted by MJW
Send the gearbox repair bill to the guy you bought the car from : he's sold it to you on the basis there's some warranty left. Obviously the previous owner must have known/fitted the aftermarket mods (which aren't gearbox-wrecking mods, really) and therefore known that the warranty was void.
Sounds to me like the car has had some unsympathetic driving prior to you buying it as well.
All the people with the 'you should've known, its just tough' posts are being a bit harsh. Not everyone is a trainspotter type who recognises every make and model of exhaust and dump valve, give the guy a break !
Sounds to me like the car has had some unsympathetic driving prior to you buying it as well.
All the people with the 'you should've known, its just tough' posts are being a bit harsh. Not everyone is a trainspotter type who recognises every make and model of exhaust and dump valve, give the guy a break !
Buyer beware as they say. Hard, but true
#32
Scoobug - you got my sympathy.... unfortunately i've found reliability all down to luck.
Strangely the most reliable motor i've had was a 205 GTI, not what you'd expect!
Strangely the most reliable motor i've had was a 205 GTI, not what you'd expect!
#33
You could get an independant motor engineer to produce a report saying how likely it was that the mods caused the gearbox failure. I would imagine that it would conclude 'highly unlikely'. You should then be able to get Subaru to pay for most if not all of the repair
#34
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Originally Posted by Scoobug
Having bought the car in good faith with warranty (supposedly) intact for another 6 months - I didn't expect to get crap like this.
#35
Originally Posted by Jiggerypokery
imlach: Yes, second hand cars sold privately usually are "sold as seen", but in this case he may have been told that the car has 6 months warrantee, in which case the car was incorrectly described. Scoobug, does the advert for the car mention the warrantee?
no dice, it is a private sale.
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'Sold as seen' means free from warranty. The car was sold with a supposed 6 months manufacturers warranty, which the seller must have known was invalid. Might be worth a phone call to the CAB if nothing else ..
#37
Originally Posted by MJW
'Sold as seen' means free from warranty. The car was sold with a supposed 6 months manufacturers warranty, which the seller must have known was invalid. Might be worth a phone call to the CAB if nothing else ..
You'd be in a very grey area regarding any comeback to the private seller. I had a SS exhaust on my car, but the dealer told me it wouldn't affect the warranty for any unrelated part of the car. Therefore, I'd go as far to say I could sell it "with warranty" quite rightly.
Private buying/selling is like that. Most people wouldn't admit to a huge smash in a car they were selling.
To be honest, some Subaru dealers use logic, and some don't. You need to find a sympathetic one who realises the problem is perhaps unrelated to the mods, and go from there.
#39
Originally Posted by speedking
Scoobug needs to answer if it has a FSSH before everyone does too much speculation.
#40
I presume this would work no?
Your best best is to continue with the dealer. IMHO, the warranty is not void by fitting a filter and exhaust. If you knackered the maf, or were suffering from running lean / det then I can see that being a problem, but adding 20hp or less will not eat a gearbox.
Cheers,
Nick.
#41
I'm certainly no legal eagle, but I'm sure when I was looking at second hand cars, the parkers guide (not the bible I know before anyone starts!) mentioned something about rights, think speaking to the CAB might be a good idea??? probably get shot down in flames here but hey ho.......
#42
Originally Posted by scoobys20mgh
I'm certainly no legal eagle, but I'm sure when I was looking at second hand cars, the parkers guide (not the bible I know before anyone starts!) mentioned something about rights, think speaking to the CAB might be a good idea??? probably get shot down in flames here but hey ho.......
#43
I don't even know if trading standards could help. It is a private sale, not from a trading company.
CAB could offer advice only, and I suspect that advice would be small claims court at best (£750 limit?), but I suspect it wouldn't get that far. Not enough evidence etc.
Your best bet is to hammer away at your dealer and try to persuade them to review their decision.
CAB could offer advice only, and I suspect that advice would be small claims court at best (£750 limit?), but I suspect it wouldn't get that far. Not enough evidence etc.
Your best bet is to hammer away at your dealer and try to persuade them to review their decision.
#44
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What is the maximum torque/power rating for this gearbox? If a dealer can fit a PPP without invalidating the warrantee then surely they can't imply a few minor mods can wreck your gearbox!?
#45
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Irrelevant. A car can have a FSSH and mods. A FSSH does not mean a warranty is valid even if mods are done.
We haven't even touched on whether the car is UK/Euro/JDM
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FSSH will definately be a "small print" condition of your warranty. I thought you could fit mods as long as you don't try and claim for faults in that area. But the mods you described have nothing to do with a gearbox? Makes me worry about my "subtle" mods now.
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Originally Posted by speedking
We haven't even touched on whether the car is UK/Euro/JDM
#48
a lot of the problem firstly is down to the dealer, how on earth a changed filter for instance could wreck a gearbox is beyond me, but IM (like any insurance company) firstly DONT want to pay hence they try everything to get out of paying..... im sorry sir your fart's the wrong smell we wont pay etc etc if the dealer has anything about them then they'll help....... but im sure if you'd bought the car from them they would be "more" helpfull...
hope you get it sorted sad state of affairs why oh why people cant be genuine when they sell things i dont know..... am i the only person who will only sell things if they work.....
hawk
hope you get it sorted sad state of affairs why oh why people cant be genuine when they sell things i dont know..... am i the only person who will only sell things if they work.....
hawk
#49
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Even with a private sale the vendor (person selling) must not misrepresent any details of the car. If they knowingly misrepresent the history or condition then they are leaving themselves open to legal action in the future. Not many people take this route as they think that "sold as seen" means there is no comeback on the vendor. Not true.
A friend of mine bought a BMW 325 privately and paid what he believed was a fair price. The vendor had given him a photocopy of the old MOT and put a new one on for him. However when something (minor) went wrong with the car my mate took it to the BMW dealer where it had originally been serviced. Their service records showed that the car had actually done about 40,000 miles more than was on the clock. In other words the previous owner had clocked it to increase the resale.
So my mate contacted a solicitor and a letter was sent, basically saying that he had fraudulently misrepresented the details of the car and he wanted to sell it back for the original purchase price. It also advised the vendor contact a solicitor. The upshot was that more than 6 months after purchase my mate sold the car back to the guy for the original purchase price.
A friend of mine bought a BMW 325 privately and paid what he believed was a fair price. The vendor had given him a photocopy of the old MOT and put a new one on for him. However when something (minor) went wrong with the car my mate took it to the BMW dealer where it had originally been serviced. Their service records showed that the car had actually done about 40,000 miles more than was on the clock. In other words the previous owner had clocked it to increase the resale.
So my mate contacted a solicitor and a letter was sent, basically saying that he had fraudulently misrepresented the details of the car and he wanted to sell it back for the original purchase price. It also advised the vendor contact a solicitor. The upshot was that more than 6 months after purchase my mate sold the car back to the guy for the original purchase price.
#52
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Gave up on the dealership & phoned Subaru direct. Apparently all of Subaru customer service are at the motor show. 4 hours later eventually spoke to someone who actually managed to confirm..... nothing. 3 weeks in. 1 major fault & they can't organise sod all.
Oh and to those supportive Scooby owners out there - No I didn't know it was modified apart from the exhaust - I drive 'em cos I like 'em not cos I know what's under the bonnet, I didn't know this site existing until I needed help and found it via a search.
Only bought the Scooby cos they were supposed to be reliable & quick. Well Mine is neither - bloody good choice.
Oh and to those supportive Scooby owners out there - No I didn't know it was modified apart from the exhaust - I drive 'em cos I like 'em not cos I know what's under the bonnet, I didn't know this site existing until I needed help and found it via a search.
Only bought the Scooby cos they were supposed to be reliable & quick. Well Mine is neither - bloody good choice.
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Just because you bought a car you had not checked out properly and you have had your fingers burnt, why blame Subaru ? They didn't mess with it or whatever else has happened to it, blame the jerk who sold it to you.
Thie same thing could happen with any make of car.
As far as I am concerned if you were not technically minded enough to notice the mods or properly check out the history, you should have got an independant inspection done, then you would have at least had some comeback.
Thie same thing could happen with any make of car.
As far as I am concerned if you were not technically minded enough to notice the mods or properly check out the history, you should have got an independant inspection done, then you would have at least had some comeback.
#55
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Mods are de-cat (which I knew about) plus dump valve & induction kit (which I didn't - engines all look the same to the uninitiated)' Uk car, paperwork up-to-date & fSsh. Serviced by the dealership 6 days before the big bang.
Just been told the car will be off the road for at least 3 weeks - gearbox would be on back-order even if/when Subaru agree the warranty claim (after an inspection visit). All the teeth stripped from 3rd gear cog in gearbox. I guess 45mph in 3rd gear is 'serious abuse'.
3 weeks on the road, 4 weeks in the garage, £3000 repair bill. 7 weeks shear shyte.
Evo Viii next time.
Just been told the car will be off the road for at least 3 weeks - gearbox would be on back-order even if/when Subaru agree the warranty claim (after an inspection visit). All the teeth stripped from 3rd gear cog in gearbox. I guess 45mph in 3rd gear is 'serious abuse'.
3 weeks on the road, 4 weeks in the garage, £3000 repair bill. 7 weeks shear shyte.
Evo Viii next time.
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If IM won't pay for it under warranty then don't get it fixed at a Subaru dealer. Get it done by a specialist (Like Rally Colin) and you will probably get a better quality job done and it will almost certainly be cheaper.
What's the Gearbox oil level like? It's a known issue on the 5 speed that unless the level is overfilled by 5mm, 3rd gear doesn't get much lubrication.
Also, obviously, most of the damage was done before it finally broke whilst you happened to be doing just 45mph.
Lastly, all cars break, even bullet proof ones (which Subaru's are not) - especially if abused.
Good Luck,
Matt.
What's the Gearbox oil level like? It's a known issue on the 5 speed that unless the level is overfilled by 5mm, 3rd gear doesn't get much lubrication.
Also, obviously, most of the damage was done before it finally broke whilst you happened to be doing just 45mph.
Lastly, all cars break, even bullet proof ones (which Subaru's are not) - especially if abused.
Good Luck,
Matt.
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Originally Posted by Scoobug
Mods are de-cat (which I knew about) plus dump valve & induction kit (which I didn't - engines all look the same to the uninitiated)' Uk car, paperwork up-to-date & fSsh. Serviced by the dealership 6 days before the big bang.
<snip>
3 weeks on the road, 4 weeks in the garage, £3000 repair bill. 7 weeks shear shyte.
Evo Viii next time.
<snip>
3 weeks on the road, 4 weeks in the garage, £3000 repair bill. 7 weeks shear shyte.
Evo Viii next time.
EVO VIII next time? Good luck! Check out the www.lancerregister.com before you assume things will be any better. Hint: do a search for "clutch".
#59
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Very sorry to hear about your bad luck.
Just my two cents: Its not entirely true that you don't have any comeback from a private sale. The seller must be truthful about the car and describe it accurately. If they claimed it was standard knowing that not to be the case and you have incurred losses because of this misrepresentation then you can claim compensation from them. You will have to provide evidence that they deliberately mislead you though, so if you don't have some kind of documentation, this might be difficult.
In future, always get a private car professionally inspected, no matter how mint is may seem! Also, consider a private warranty in future, not cheap, but then neither is a gearbox!
I hope you've not got your fingers too badly burned and wish you all the best with future purchases.
Best.
Just my two cents: Its not entirely true that you don't have any comeback from a private sale. The seller must be truthful about the car and describe it accurately. If they claimed it was standard knowing that not to be the case and you have incurred losses because of this misrepresentation then you can claim compensation from them. You will have to provide evidence that they deliberately mislead you though, so if you don't have some kind of documentation, this might be difficult.
In future, always get a private car professionally inspected, no matter how mint is may seem! Also, consider a private warranty in future, not cheap, but then neither is a gearbox!
I hope you've not got your fingers too badly burned and wish you all the best with future purchases.
Best.
#60
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Also another thing...some manufacturer/dealer warranties also have a clause in them which invalidates it if the failure was due to abuse, that's regardless of mods.
Obviously they'd have to proove it, in order to say that, but it's possible.
What I'd try in this situation is to take the car back home, or to an independent garage and get it returned to standard at own cost (2nd hand parts if possible, to reduce cost). Then take the car to a different dealers to sort the gearbox under warrantee.
edit: Just realised how old this thread is
Obviously they'd have to proove it, in order to say that, but it's possible.
What I'd try in this situation is to take the car back home, or to an independent garage and get it returned to standard at own cost (2nd hand parts if possible, to reduce cost). Then take the car to a different dealers to sort the gearbox under warrantee.
edit: Just realised how old this thread is
Last edited by ALi-B; 15 August 2004 at 03:56 PM.