When Scotland isn't "British"
15 June 2004, 12:30 PM
#271
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Scotland qualified for the World Cup for 5 consecutive world cups, a feat not managed by England 
1974, 1978, 1982, 1986, 1990, but missed out in 1994 - ie, we qualified for 5 out of 6 consecutive world cups in that time.
England only managed 1982, 1986, and 1990 in that time, a pitiful 3 out of 6 consecutive world cups in the 70's, 80's and early 90's
1974, 1978, 1982, 1986, 1990, but missed out in 1994 - ie, we qualified for 5 out of 6 consecutive world cups in that time.
England only managed 1982, 1986, and 1990 in that time, a pitiful 3 out of 6 consecutive world cups in the 70's, 80's and early 90's
15 June 2004, 12:37 PM
#272
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Ok perhaps the figures are from 1997 but I think I'll start being a bit nicer to my British friends 
Facts and Figures presented by Simon Heffer
1997: expenditure in Scotland in relation to rest of UK:
Health & Social services 22% higher in Scotland
Education 31%
Transport 31%
Housing 87%
Agriculture 123%
Scotland receives £8 billion subsidies; £8 billion more is received by the Scots than they raise in revenue.
Scotland receives 10.1% of British expenditure while raising just 8.8% of British revenue - a shortfall of 1.3%.
In 1994/5 £23.8 billion was raised in Scotland, of which only £1.7 billion came from oil.
If Scotland left the Union the English would benefit to the tune of a cut of 4p in the £ off tax.
58% of Scottish trade is with the EU, but, most of that is with England.
Now that Scotland has devolved and the Scots have a sort of parliament I wonder when the SNP will persuade them to go all the way and decide to withdraw from the Union with England first established way back in 1707? A survey in June 1998 revealed that 50% of Scots, 18-34 years old, wanted independence from England. I suppose to many Scots the thought of being 'free' from England warms the cockles of their hearts. It could be those Scots have visions of Scotland reaching its unfulfilled potential to become a much richer country by virtue of their inherent intellect, with membership of the European Union and all the income from North Sea oil pouring into their coffers instead of a Britain which by then will comprise: England, Northern Ireland and Wales; unless of course the Irish and Welsh follow Scots initiative and leave the United Kingdom to leave England standing invitingly alone.
Without doubt to those folk north of the border the vision of deciding their own destiny, probably within a European Union, coupled with the riches of the North Sea will be great; then can Scotland, the Greece of the north, look forward to a new age. However, will a shining future await the Scottish people if/when they throw off the shackles that have bound them to England since the Union in 1707?
A book by Simon Heffer, "Nor shall my sword" , published in 1999 gives some thought provoking answers to the scenario presented above. It suggests that the Scottish National Party {SNP} places much hope in a future, independent Scotland having the riches of the North Sea, oil, at their disposal with which to give the Scots a much higher standard of living, enhancing the lives of all in Scotland. However, as Heffer points out there are two big question marks hovering around this question of 'Scottish oil':
In the event that Scotland declared independence from the UK and claimed the oil in the North Sea as her own, England would of course advise them that the English-Scottish border does not run horizontal; it stretches from south-west to north east, therefore, any line extending along this boundary axis into the North Sea would continue to run upwards towards Norway, therefore, as map shows England could make a claim for oil in her territorial waters; this problem could take years to settle in an international cour. We must also remember that most oil reserves lie closer to the Shetland Isles and it is no foregone conclusion that in the event Scotland decided upon independence the Shetlanders wouldn't want it for themselves; that is quite an inducement for them to follow Scotland's lead for it would make every islander a millionaires overnight and later billionaires. Because the Shetlands had been a Norwegian dependency for 594 years and only 530 years under the British Crown the islanders might opt to become tied to Norway, because as has been observed, "In the islands of Orkney and Shetlands there is a strong Norse {Norwegian} heritage, and technically they are still on loan to Scotland from the Scandinavian monarchy". And of course it would be ironic if the islanders opted to remain partners with Britain, even then each of them becoming as rich as Croessus.
Regarding the joining of the EU as a sovereign nation the Scots may consider European subsidies will make up for the £8 billion+ subsidy they will lose when leaving the Union. However, they might remember that the EU will undoubtedly be enlarged therefore, thirteen other countries will be chasing the largesse given to countries within the EU: Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Estonia, Slovenia, Malta, Latvia, Romania, Slovakia, Turkey, Lithuania, Bulgaria and Cyprus. To compound the problem we find that France has some objections to Poland joining because they see this as a potential drain on Common Agricultural Policy funds when largesse goes to Poland with its large, agricultural industry; the more members from 'poorer' countries joining the EU the less money for France. And if for a moment of fantasy we envisage Scotland receiving all oil revenues from North Sea oil, then as a 'richer' nation, like England, she will possibly have to, again like England, pay into the EU coffers more than she gets out.
Finally, if separation occurs between Scotland and Britain then what will be the share of the national debt that the Scots will rightfully have to pay?
The panel above contains some interesting information by Heffer which advises that Scotland does very well out of the union with England. Undoubtedly the picture given above is through necessity fundamental; the outcome of separation from Britain would leave the Scots with some difficult questions they must address. To sum up: would independance be financially worth that independance?; what price would they put on being a seperat entity within a new union where directives come from Brussels instead of London?
Whatever the outcome of the Scottish indepedence debate I do believe the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland should wish the Scots good luck in their venture into the unknown; they have been most worthy allies and friends through good times and bad; I truly hope that this last sentiment expressed is shared by the Scots regarding the rest of the folk of the UK.
Facts and Figures presented by Simon Heffer
1997: expenditure in Scotland in relation to rest of UK:
Health & Social services 22% higher in Scotland
Education 31%
Transport 31%
Housing 87%
Agriculture 123%
Scotland receives £8 billion subsidies; £8 billion more is received by the Scots than they raise in revenue.
Scotland receives 10.1% of British expenditure while raising just 8.8% of British revenue - a shortfall of 1.3%.
In 1994/5 £23.8 billion was raised in Scotland, of which only £1.7 billion came from oil.
If Scotland left the Union the English would benefit to the tune of a cut of 4p in the £ off tax.
58% of Scottish trade is with the EU, but, most of that is with England.
Now that Scotland has devolved and the Scots have a sort of parliament I wonder when the SNP will persuade them to go all the way and decide to withdraw from the Union with England first established way back in 1707? A survey in June 1998 revealed that 50% of Scots, 18-34 years old, wanted independence from England. I suppose to many Scots the thought of being 'free' from England warms the cockles of their hearts. It could be those Scots have visions of Scotland reaching its unfulfilled potential to become a much richer country by virtue of their inherent intellect, with membership of the European Union and all the income from North Sea oil pouring into their coffers instead of a Britain which by then will comprise: England, Northern Ireland and Wales; unless of course the Irish and Welsh follow Scots initiative and leave the United Kingdom to leave England standing invitingly alone.
Without doubt to those folk north of the border the vision of deciding their own destiny, probably within a European Union, coupled with the riches of the North Sea will be great; then can Scotland, the Greece of the north, look forward to a new age. However, will a shining future await the Scottish people if/when they throw off the shackles that have bound them to England since the Union in 1707?
A book by Simon Heffer, "Nor shall my sword" , published in 1999 gives some thought provoking answers to the scenario presented above. It suggests that the Scottish National Party {SNP} places much hope in a future, independent Scotland having the riches of the North Sea, oil, at their disposal with which to give the Scots a much higher standard of living, enhancing the lives of all in Scotland. However, as Heffer points out there are two big question marks hovering around this question of 'Scottish oil':
In the event that Scotland declared independence from the UK and claimed the oil in the North Sea as her own, England would of course advise them that the English-Scottish border does not run horizontal; it stretches from south-west to north east, therefore, any line extending along this boundary axis into the North Sea would continue to run upwards towards Norway, therefore, as map shows England could make a claim for oil in her territorial waters; this problem could take years to settle in an international cour. We must also remember that most oil reserves lie closer to the Shetland Isles and it is no foregone conclusion that in the event Scotland decided upon independence the Shetlanders wouldn't want it for themselves; that is quite an inducement for them to follow Scotland's lead for it would make every islander a millionaires overnight and later billionaires. Because the Shetlands had been a Norwegian dependency for 594 years and only 530 years under the British Crown the islanders might opt to become tied to Norway, because as has been observed, "In the islands of Orkney and Shetlands there is a strong Norse {Norwegian} heritage, and technically they are still on loan to Scotland from the Scandinavian monarchy". And of course it would be ironic if the islanders opted to remain partners with Britain, even then each of them becoming as rich as Croessus.
Regarding the joining of the EU as a sovereign nation the Scots may consider European subsidies will make up for the £8 billion+ subsidy they will lose when leaving the Union. However, they might remember that the EU will undoubtedly be enlarged therefore, thirteen other countries will be chasing the largesse given to countries within the EU: Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Estonia, Slovenia, Malta, Latvia, Romania, Slovakia, Turkey, Lithuania, Bulgaria and Cyprus. To compound the problem we find that France has some objections to Poland joining because they see this as a potential drain on Common Agricultural Policy funds when largesse goes to Poland with its large, agricultural industry; the more members from 'poorer' countries joining the EU the less money for France. And if for a moment of fantasy we envisage Scotland receiving all oil revenues from North Sea oil, then as a 'richer' nation, like England, she will possibly have to, again like England, pay into the EU coffers more than she gets out.
Finally, if separation occurs between Scotland and Britain then what will be the share of the national debt that the Scots will rightfully have to pay?
The panel above contains some interesting information by Heffer which advises that Scotland does very well out of the union with England. Undoubtedly the picture given above is through necessity fundamental; the outcome of separation from Britain would leave the Scots with some difficult questions they must address. To sum up: would independance be financially worth that independance?; what price would they put on being a seperat entity within a new union where directives come from Brussels instead of London?
Whatever the outcome of the Scottish indepedence debate I do believe the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland should wish the Scots good luck in their venture into the unknown; they have been most worthy allies and friends through good times and bad; I truly hope that this last sentiment expressed is shared by the Scots regarding the rest of the folk of the UK.
15 June 2004, 12:42 PM
#273
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Just had a read through this thread & at the start i was asking myself "were is imlach" and up he pops.
Brilliant thread, totally PMSL
And for the record i started a good few of those threads about the game & long live Zidane the magician
From Stephen the half croat, half swedish with a french father in law
nah seriously before i get slatted for being a racist & a bigot, My blood comes from every UK nation except welsh
SO U YE !
rofllmfao
Brilliant thread, totally PMSL
And for the record i started a good few of those threads about the game & long live Zidane the magician
From Stephen the half croat, half swedish with a french father in law
nah seriously before i get slatted for being a racist & a bigot, My blood comes from every UK nation except welsh
SO U YE !
rofllmfao
15 June 2004, 01:16 PM
#276
Originally Posted by Geezer
Oh yes, sheep have feelings too you know. You have to get them in the mood
Geezer
Geezer
We met in a secluded field, the sun nearly kissing the evening horizon.
The warm breeze was full of that earthy, musky scent that only those fortunate enough to live outside the urban rat race know, and a quiet whispering of leaves in the weeping willow overhead added the final touch to the most romantic scene.
We lay there, both naked. I knew I had to have her, and have her now.
Without a word being spoken, I moved to a position of dominance.
I could feel instantly that this was what she was waiting for as she frantically
thrust her pelvis at my approaching organ.
I moved slowly at first, inch by inch, until I was fully inside her. Then as the tension rose, we threw caution to the wind and abandoned ourselves to the moment.
Although inexperienced, she approached every change of position with enthusiasm, moaning with despair every time I withdrew to prevent myself ending it all too soon. As the sexual tension heightened towards the inevitable mind blowing climax, it was all I could do to hold out any longer.
Finally, the moment we had been building up to was upon us, and passed all too quickly.
Breathlessly we rolled together in the now damp grass. As the last deep orange glow of the long setting sun melted into the darkness of approaching night, we lay there still entwined in an amorous embrace.
I kissed her long and lovingly, and whispered reassuringly how good she had been.
She tenderly and sensuously licked my inner ear and whispered,
'Baaaaaaa' and rejoined the flock.
Shaun
15 June 2004, 01:22 PM
#277
Scooby Regular
Shaun
May I suggest that your joke (as old as it may be
) could of been alot funnier had the thread not of moved on to the subject of sheep already... as I feel your tale may of lost that element of 'surprise' that is generally deemed necessary to make said joke funny
May I suggest that your joke (as old as it may be
) could of been alot funnier had the thread not of moved on to the subject of sheep already... as I feel your tale may of lost that element of 'surprise' that is generally deemed necessary to make said joke funny
15 June 2004, 01:54 PM
#278
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Originally Posted by sti-04!!
From Stephen the half croat, half swedish with a french father in law
Unless of course you're trying to upset all the half English, half Bulgarian Football fans
15 June 2004, 02:30 PM
#279
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Originally Posted by Brendan Hughes
Wish I could be oppressed by having £8 billion thrown at me. Oh, how I'd complain 
15 June 2004, 03:28 PM
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Eh? No, no D, you're confusing me with someone else in Portugal at present...
http://www.abcdata.eclipse.co.uk/Large/AAA015H.jpg
http://www.abcdata.eclipse.co.uk/Large/AAA015H.jpg
15 June 2004, 04:09 PM
#282
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Wow what a thread, its a monster!
I have had many Scottish friends over the years and have always found them to be a very friendly bunch, either here or in Scotland itself. As an individual I remember being genuinely dissapointed when Holland scored that goal in 96 which knocked Scotland out. In the same way I was willing Wales to beat Russia not to recently, however I cannot ever remember a Scottish/Welsh/Irish person ever saying something similar!
Seeing some of the absolute bo!!ocks listed on here that can only be described as "English Baiting", ffs #Bannockburn# jesus christ whats going on in this world!
I think its a very sad reflection on our country as a whole that we can't support each other when the time is right, and have healthy rivalry when appropriate.
Home Rule for England
I have had many Scottish friends over the years and have always found them to be a very friendly bunch, either here or in Scotland itself. As an individual I remember being genuinely dissapointed when Holland scored that goal in 96 which knocked Scotland out. In the same way I was willing Wales to beat Russia not to recently, however I cannot ever remember a Scottish/Welsh/Irish person ever saying something similar!
Seeing some of the absolute bo!!ocks listed on here that can only be described as "English Baiting", ffs #Bannockburn# jesus christ whats going on in this world!
I think its a very sad reflection on our country as a whole that we can't support each other when the time is right, and have healthy rivalry when appropriate.
Home Rule for England
15 June 2004, 04:26 PM
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All 10 of them?
Ah, the Battle of Bannockburn, oft wheeled out by the Jocks about how they smashed the English. They fail to mention that they were fighting the totally militarily inept Edward II. Had his old man still been alive, the short period of independance they enjoyed may never have come about.
They rarely wish to bring up Culloden Moor, when not only did they take a beating from the English, but managed to kill each other in swathes too! Couldn't possibly mention the massacre of Scots by fellow Scots FOR the English.
Anyway, this is just about football isn't it?
Geezer
Ah, the Battle of Bannockburn, oft wheeled out by the Jocks about how they smashed the English. They fail to mention that they were fighting the totally militarily inept Edward II. Had his old man still been alive, the short period of independance they enjoyed may never have come about.
They rarely wish to bring up Culloden Moor, when not only did they take a beating from the English, but managed to kill each other in swathes too! Couldn't possibly mention the massacre of Scots by fellow Scots FOR the English.
Anyway, this is just about football isn't it?
Geezer
15 June 2004, 05:08 PM
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Another couple of days and every literate Scot will have posted on this thread FFS - don't get them started on Education - You Know the Scots have the best Education system in the World - but they're still ruled by their Idiotic useless neighbours
15 June 2004, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jasey
didn't realise that NACRO was in Portugal.
He's not. It's just overflowing with loud-mouthed, arrogant Brits in an unhinged state of mind who are spoiling for a fight while deluding themselves that they're the greatest and can take on the world and win.
Oh, hang on a sec...
15 June 2004, 05:31 PM
#290
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Originally Posted by jasey
Another couple of days and every literate Scot will have posted on this thread FFS - don't get them started on Education - You Know the Scots have the best Education system in the World - but they're still ruled by their Idiotic useless neighbours
Glad you can admit that the English are idiotic and useless
15 June 2004, 05:33 PM
#291
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Originally Posted by Brendan Hughes
He's not. It's just overflowing with loud-mouthed, arrogant Brits in an unhinged state of mind who are spoiling for a fight while deluding themselves that they're the greatest and can take on the world and win.
15 June 2004, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Diablo
Don't you mean loud-mouthed, arrogant English in an unhinged state of mind who are spoiling for a fight while deluding themselves that they're the greatest and can take on the world and win - aka England fans abroad
15 June 2004, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jasey
ps Moses - I'd rather be a Frenchman than a Tim - so stick that up your Kilt and fiddle with ya sporran
BTW I'm Scottish but I consider myself British first and foremost. What does that make me. Please don't say stupid
15 June 2004, 08:48 PM
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The reason a lot of Scots support whoever England are playing against is simply the press. Take the France match: half way through the second half the commentator makes a comment about the French manager being at Spurs next season and how he'll have to get used to hearing 1-0 every week. That sort of comment, of which there are always many - that just happened to be the stand out one, does not go down with fans of other teams.
To be fair we have the same problem up here; all the press are based in the Glasgow area, and it is absolutely ridiculous how old firm biased they are. For the same reason I hope they get gubbed every match they play - nothing to do with the fans themselves whether they be Celtic, Rangers or English. I have huge problems when the old firm play in Europe, while wanting them to do well for our national co-efficient I do take delight in them getting beaten, and could not support them in a final.
At the moment I should be watching them talk about the Germany Holland match, but instead they are going on about the England team. I am not English, so have no more interest in their team than any other in the tournament, the sooner they go out and I can enjoy a relatively even balanced coverage of the teams taking part the better.
I share an office with a Rangers fan - happy to see England do well, and a Celtic fan - no interest in Scotland and supports Ireland (would prefer to watch England play than Scotland). Leads to a wide range of opinions
To be fair we have the same problem up here; all the press are based in the Glasgow area, and it is absolutely ridiculous how old firm biased they are. For the same reason I hope they get gubbed every match they play - nothing to do with the fans themselves whether they be Celtic, Rangers or English. I have huge problems when the old firm play in Europe, while wanting them to do well for our national co-efficient I do take delight in them getting beaten, and could not support them in a final.
At the moment I should be watching them talk about the Germany Holland match, but instead they are going on about the England team. I am not English, so have no more interest in their team than any other in the tournament, the sooner they go out and I can enjoy a relatively even balanced coverage of the teams taking part the better.
I share an office with a Rangers fan - happy to see England do well, and a Celtic fan - no interest in Scotland and supports Ireland (would prefer to watch England play than Scotland). Leads to a wide range of opinions
15 June 2004, 09:22 PM
#299
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Your point caller?
Last edited by Jye; 15 June 2004 at 09:28 PM.
16 June 2004, 01:06 AM
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"""And then we have Euro 2004, and all the flags come out, and the strutting, and the posturing and the arrogance is back again. On the TV, on the Radio, in the newspapers….down our throats, whether we like it or not.
For these reasons, and predominantly the perceived arrogance, to fly the St George’s cross in Scotland (either from a car window or, as with my parents neighbours last night, to hang an England flag which fills the living room window) is almost seen as insulting to many Scots. It almost might as well say “F*ck you” """
it is quite different but in around about way the same, i live in N Ireland and everytime i see a Tri-colour being flown i feel the same way as u. i know i shouldnt but i do, part of me says they are nationists and they are supporting what they believe but another part of me says they are willing to take british jobs/british benifits/british education but they arent willing to be seen as british? if u dont wanna be british move!
but to make me sound less sectarian i feel the same annoyance when i see Paramilatary flags and murals. the only flags i dont mind seeing are the union jack and the st particks flag
For these reasons, and predominantly the perceived arrogance, to fly the St George’s cross in Scotland (either from a car window or, as with my parents neighbours last night, to hang an England flag which fills the living room window) is almost seen as insulting to many Scots. It almost might as well say “F*ck you” """
it is quite different but in around about way the same, i live in N Ireland and everytime i see a Tri-colour being flown i feel the same way as u. i know i shouldnt but i do, part of me says they are nationists and they are supporting what they believe but another part of me says they are willing to take british jobs/british benifits/british education but they arent willing to be seen as british? if u dont wanna be british move!
but to make me sound less sectarian i feel the same annoyance when i see Paramilatary flags and murals. the only flags i dont mind seeing are the union jack and the st particks flag