Not another Vs thread!!!!
15 June 2004, 05:49 PM
#31
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Dumbartonshire
Posts: 5,896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont disbelieve you wez, I've had plenty of dices with both Scooby's and bike's against tackle that should have murdered me and didnt. Some bikers though are (a) big girls (b) sensible (c) relatively law abiding (d) not much use at wringing a bike out - must have too much mechanical sympathy (e) newbies 
btw two guys (bike V car) got jailed up here recently for racing on the road, so bear that in mind
btw two guys (bike V car) got jailed up here recently for racing on the road, so bear that in mind
15 June 2004, 06:24 PM
#32
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by wez_sti
a passenger must make a hell of a lot of difference to the bikes performance.
16 June 2004, 11:42 AM
#33
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A 750 not a superbike?? The latest gsxr 750, and even the 2000 onwards model, make more power and carries less weight than an early <98 Fireblade…in fact the latest model makes a (claimed ) 2 brake less than an early R1…..with the same 170+top end.
A recent 600 should waste any car with anything less than 350 brake..all the way up to flat out…..
Also agreed there are a lot of wobblers about on bikes, but those of us that have reached a certain level of aptitude/skill can make the most of a bikes chassis/tyres, and you wouldn’t catch a well rode bike for dust in a car
Bikes chassis are far more composed than the average modded saloon, especially on big fast sweepers
Agreed a tuned to hell with loads of money thrown at it viper/supra/skyline will reel in a superbike when underway, but it only takes a few K to take a bike up to silly levels of performance to match it.
Bikes are as mad as a hatter straight from the crate……
As for the pillion thing, yes, it does make a massive difference, the only way I can compare it like having 5 people in your car and then trying to wring its neck everywhere, it kills it basically.
Regards the torque thing, a 600cc bike has little to start with, and they do feel pretty gutless low down, especially with a passenger
A 1000cc+ plus bike however has stacks of torque, and summat like my busa or a GSXRthou will murder most cars with out using half the tacho……They start ripping your arms out of the socket at not much past tick over
A busa for instance makes a 100brake at the wheel at not much over 5thou revs, as much as a 600 makes at the redline…….
Will also run up to indicated 190and a bit mph with a pillion…….(sorry Neil…).
As for the racing on the road thing, it’s so hard not to isn’t it?.I wish I could grow up but there ya go
Anyone fancy a real life comparison on the road/Northants/Herts Beds /Bucks?? Ill bring the bikes, you bring the car……Be wicked to video it…….
A recent 600 should waste any car with anything less than 350 brake..all the way up to flat out…..
Also agreed there are a lot of wobblers about on bikes, but those of us that have reached a certain level of aptitude/skill can make the most of a bikes chassis/tyres, and you wouldn’t catch a well rode bike for dust in a car
Bikes chassis are far more composed than the average modded saloon, especially on big fast sweepers
Agreed a tuned to hell with loads of money thrown at it viper/supra/skyline will reel in a superbike when underway, but it only takes a few K to take a bike up to silly levels of performance to match it.
Bikes are as mad as a hatter straight from the crate……
As for the pillion thing, yes, it does make a massive difference, the only way I can compare it like having 5 people in your car and then trying to wring its neck everywhere, it kills it basically.
Regards the torque thing, a 600cc bike has little to start with, and they do feel pretty gutless low down, especially with a passenger
A 1000cc+ plus bike however has stacks of torque, and summat like my busa or a GSXRthou will murder most cars with out using half the tacho……They start ripping your arms out of the socket at not much past tick over
A busa for instance makes a 100brake at the wheel at not much over 5thou revs, as much as a 600 makes at the redline…….
Will also run up to indicated 190and a bit mph with a pillion…….(sorry Neil…).
As for the racing on the road thing, it’s so hard not to isn’t it?.I wish I could grow up but there ya go
Anyone fancy a real life comparison on the road/Northants/Herts Beds /Bucks?? Ill bring the bikes, you bring the car……Be wicked to video it…….
16 June 2004, 04:40 PM
#34
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: All over...so who needs a car!
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dont mind bringing my 95 Sti, i'm in essex so maybe meet halfway???
i'm fully expecting you to wipe the floor but as you say, will be very intresting and make a great vid....i need to grow up too!
any suitable roads?????
i'm fully expecting you to wipe the floor but as you say, will be very intresting and make a great vid....i need to grow up too!
any suitable roads?????
16 June 2004, 05:07 PM
#35
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My old Cosworth was running 370 bhp and I kept with a bike from 120 up until 160 when I backed off because we were heading towards traffic on the motorway (I was totally flat out and cant vouch for him.....but would imagine he was giving it quite a lot of stick to get up to those speeds but I cant be sure because I cant ride bikes)......not that much in it to be honest.....but the bike was an Suzuki Srad (so could be a 600 upwards). Four years ago I owned a 530 bhp 911 carrerra 2 and found that that was more than a match for most bikes top end........apart from a bloke down the road who had a 1200 cc bandit running a turbo from a rover 220.....that was stupid quick!!!!
17 June 2004, 11:19 AM
#38
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: All over...so who needs a car!
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by brybusa
Wez , getting new tyres and brakes fitted to the busa Saturday, weather permitting!
Will PM you when done and well talk about a location....
Top man!
Will PM you when done and well talk about a location....
Top man!
theres a quary near me with a v. long, straight, private road that many people use, rather get a slapped wrist for trespassing than doing double the speed limit on a public road....maybe???? dont mind if its too far...
17 June 2004, 11:37 AM
#39
I can push an R1 along from about 40 to 120 slugs/hour (almost ran into the back because i didn't expect it), shocked me as much as him!
but I have a few more tweaks than most!
Paul
but I have a few more tweaks than most!
Paul
17 June 2004, 12:02 PM
#40
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What ever mate.......can travel!
Got sum good roads beds way as well that would suit our purposes, and a mix of A,B road and dual carriageway, maybe mix the day in wiv a visit to the pod...?!
Bring your motor too pavlo.........!
Got sum good roads beds way as well that would suit our purposes, and a mix of A,B road and dual carriageway, maybe mix the day in wiv a visit to the pod...?!
Bring your motor too pavlo.........!
17 June 2004, 12:15 PM
#41
How is the power band on big bikes? I am can only assume matey on the bike thought he would drop me and didn't have it in best gear off r'about, I had to actually back off and brake. Then we both eased off anyway.
Compared to real 1/4 mile testing of bikes, my car wasn't far off with the previous engine. At North Weald a while ago many bikes were in 11.5 region, my car was a little down on that, but now probably very close. The difference is on my car I have a useable power band from about 4000 to 8000rpm, with 90% of peak power from 5000 to 8000 rpm.
I wonder how good/brave you have to be to get these best case times that are being claimed for the bikes?
Paul
Compared to real 1/4 mile testing of bikes, my car wasn't far off with the previous engine. At North Weald a while ago many bikes were in 11.5 region, my car was a little down on that, but now probably very close. The difference is on my car I have a useable power band from about 4000 to 8000rpm, with 90% of peak power from 5000 to 8000 rpm.
I wonder how good/brave you have to be to get these best case times that are being claimed for the bikes?
Paul
17 June 2004, 12:58 PM
#42
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: All over...so who needs a car!
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
must take a hell of alot of b@lls to wring the neck on a 150bhp+ with your front wheel getting lighter and lighter. nothing but respect for bikers.
anyone seen the clarkson vid with the porsche 911 Vs R1 (i think) on the track. quality viewing!
anyone seen the clarkson vid with the porsche 911 Vs R1 (i think) on the track. quality viewing!
17 June 2004, 01:10 PM
#43
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On a big bike there is no real power band, but some engines are more peaky than other by their nature(shorter stroke etc).The more you rev it, the faster the scenery goes by, no real step felt in the power
However, the ZX10 and lastest R1 are supposed to be a bit more revvy than the other litre bikes, not ridden either, so cant comment....
If you was on the back of the busa not holding on and I floored it at 30mph in top gear ,youd flip off the back.....
Yes,I saw the clarkson video, we all cursed Neil Mac for loosing to the porker!
Gotta say, its the only test/video ive seen with a proody car beating a bike, thought the most recent car vs bike test in Evo mag was a good comparison...Gotta admit the Radical is the real deal as far as track/street performance is concerned, at least Neil Mackenzie redeemed himself that time!
However, the ZX10 and lastest R1 are supposed to be a bit more revvy than the other litre bikes, not ridden either, so cant comment....
If you was on the back of the busa not holding on and I floored it at 30mph in top gear ,youd flip off the back.....
Yes,I saw the clarkson video, we all cursed Neil Mac for loosing to the porker!
Gotta say, its the only test/video ive seen with a proody car beating a bike, thought the most recent car vs bike test in Evo mag was a good comparison...Gotta admit the Radical is the real deal as far as track/street performance is concerned, at least Neil Mackenzie redeemed himself that time!
17 June 2004, 01:29 PM
#44
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: All over...so who needs a car!
Posts: 1,739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by brybusa
If you was on the back of the busa not holding on and I floored it at 30mph in top gear ,youd flip off the back.....
Can quite believe that, before my mate took me out on his 600 gsx r he kept telling me that i REALLY have to hold on, and i was like, yeah yeah, whatever, once he let fly though i could understand why, the G-forces try and rip you of the bike with alarming force! thats one of the reason i assumed he'd anialate (spelling?) me, be he didn't
lets not go there again though! i'm sure a busa will be a different story....
17 June 2004, 01:36 PM
#45
Re the power band,
I mean power, not torque. So from what your saying unless you are up near the redline you are going to be down on power. On a roll from 40mph I have have a lot of power available and headroom on the gears to make it to 75mph, a bike would have to work harder to maintain his power to weight to keep it the same as mine.
For reference my car has power to weight similar to a 125hp bike weighing 200kg with an 80kg rider. So it's not unrealistic to be keeping up with said bike, espeically if he's caught on the hop and only has 100hp on tap at the time.
However, cars and bikes are a bad mix at best of times, and I certainly wouldn't want to have a play on open road for risk of serious damage to one or other.
Paul
I mean power, not torque. So from what your saying unless you are up near the redline you are going to be down on power. On a roll from 40mph I have have a lot of power available and headroom on the gears to make it to 75mph, a bike would have to work harder to maintain his power to weight to keep it the same as mine.
For reference my car has power to weight similar to a 125hp bike weighing 200kg with an 80kg rider. So it's not unrealistic to be keeping up with said bike, espeically if he's caught on the hop and only has 100hp on tap at the time.
However, cars and bikes are a bad mix at best of times, and I certainly wouldn't want to have a play on open road for risk of serious damage to one or other.
Paul
Last edited by Pavlo; 17 June 2004 at 01:41 PM. Reason: p/w ratio worked out wrong now abut 435hp/ton
17 June 2004, 02:14 PM
#46
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fair comment Pavlo.........and a great power to weight ratio for a motor
I do mean torque and power...a big bike has stacks of both, and as I said you can make real progress using less than half the revs available....which is why big bikes eat back tyres, your constantly ripping them up, even on part throttle
be interesting to see how both go from a 40mph roll on(in top yes?), I know from when I had my scoob, the shove low down was its nicest feature, and that was only a lightly modded UK turbo
Respect your comment in reference to not racing on the road, but a lot of people do, and ill always nice to have a mutual thrashing with a like minded individual....I always nod or wave after the event
I do mean torque and power...a big bike has stacks of both, and as I said you can make real progress using less than half the revs available....which is why big bikes eat back tyres, your constantly ripping them up, even on part throttle
be interesting to see how both go from a 40mph roll on(in top yes?), I know from when I had my scoob, the shove low down was its nicest feature, and that was only a lightly modded UK turbo
Respect your comment in reference to not racing on the road, but a lot of people do, and ill always nice to have a mutual thrashing with a like minded individual....I always nod or wave after the event
17 June 2004, 03:26 PM
#47
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i think the thing people need to get there head round is what was percieved to have happend on a couple of occasions ive had some "fun" with bikers......... usually ending up with them overtaking in locations which cannot/could not ever be done by cars
ie between lines of traffic.......... near blind bends etc
on back roads i dont bother with bikes period..... no point if i know a road well and the biker doesn't he has got much of a chance..... same goes the other way
rolling starts have provided the best amusement and one memorable time when i was waived over into the next service station cos the biker couldnt believe id kept up
yes i know he wasnt trying, he had a flat, he never took it out of top blah blah blah
one thing is for sure Focus diesel will get 5 people from London to Edinburgh quicker than any bike............... when it boils down to it there really isnt much to compare between bikes and cars 2 totally different animals
All imho of course
Hawk
ie between lines of traffic.......... near blind bends etc
on back roads i dont bother with bikes period..... no point if i know a road well and the biker doesn't he has got much of a chance..... same goes the other way
rolling starts have provided the best amusement and one memorable time when i was waived over into the next service station cos the biker couldnt believe id kept up
yes i know he wasnt trying, he had a flat, he never took it out of top blah blah blah
one thing is for sure Focus diesel will get 5 people from London to Edinburgh quicker than any bike............... when it boils down to it there really isnt much to compare between bikes and cars 2 totally different animals
All imho of course
Hawk
at the prospect of Paul vs Brybusa
19 July 2004, 10:00 AM
#49
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Some say he has frost on his helmet...
Posts: 2,970
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Silvafox
Figures speak for themselves.............I have a mate with a GSX R600 and its HUGELY faster than a scooby and most other cars for that matter.
The Torque makes a big difference once rolling, and from 70 mph onward I've kept with several large bikes on the m-way upto- Silly... much to the supprise of mr biker, of which i had several... "claim to fame J41 m1 well past under the m62 on back wheel of 350LC
" against a 600 the car would be level or the bike just pulling away, but just...
Another story down the back roads roads though; to the local bike haunt, Sherburn; sorry mr bikers but if anyone on a bike thinks they can leave me down that road or any other slightly bumpy twisty B road, you are either mad or have never actualy had a run in with a handy driver in a fast car... regardless of the tackle thier on! I could ride a bike, well. but there's no way i could keep with the Sti down an average B road...
I've done it a few times, once against a old shape GSXR 750 from Harrogate to Wetherby & was all over the bike... you have to remember once rolling 70mph is 70mph on bike and car, so is 120, throw a few bends in and the performance advantage is almost nill!
As for vids, search on google for viper vs Busa vid, 900 horse Viper roll ons from 50 mph and the Viper is level and at points pulling away from tuned Bussas... and the the Bussa has nealy a 980 bhp per tonne!
19 July 2004, 10:04 AM
#50
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Some say he has frost on his helmet...
Posts: 2,970
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by wez_sti
must take a hell of alot of b@lls to wring the neck on a 150bhp+ with your front wheel getting lighter and lighter. nothing but respect for bikers.
anyone seen the clarkson vid with the porsche 911 Vs R1 (i think) on the track. quality viewing!
anyone seen the clarkson vid with the porsche 911 Vs R1 (i think) on the track. quality viewing!
19 July 2004, 11:44 AM
#52
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Some say he has frost on his helmet...
Posts: 2,970
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jjones
last years gsxr 1000 (which is now pedestrian) does 0-150 in near on 10 seconds.
what does your subaru do that in?
what does your subaru do that in?
19 July 2004, 11:53 PM
#56
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
STI 5 & ZX-10R .... both have their merits:
I push the car harder in the twisties as I don't have to worry so much about crap on roads and surface quality and I am definitely faster in the car on these roads ... when the road opens out however (not necessarily a 10 mile straight
) the bike does the business .... accelerating to the point at which I almost get the 'can't cope' with all this information tunnel vision feeling, the car hits hard but not that hard! In the car I have time to glance at the gauges and I daren't even look at the speedo on the bike Whatever, it 'feels' a hell of a lot faster on the bike!
I am well able to scare myself in both, but I usually get to 'the next corner' a lot quicker on the bike! I'd love a car that could accelerate as the bike does - must be awesome to be dry, warm & feel 'relatively' safe and get that 'Oh ****' feeling as one laughs out loud!
I push the car harder in the twisties as I don't have to worry so much about crap on roads and surface quality and I am definitely faster in the car on these roads ... when the road opens out however (not necessarily a 10 mile straight
) the bike does the business .... accelerating to the point at which I almost get the 'can't cope' with all this information tunnel vision feeling, the car hits hard but not that hard! In the car I have time to glance at the gauges and I daren't even look at the speedo on the bike Whatever, it 'feels' a hell of a lot faster on the bike!I am well able to scare myself in both, but I usually get to 'the next corner' a lot quicker on the bike! I'd love a car that could accelerate as the bike does - must be awesome to be dry, warm & feel 'relatively' safe and get that 'Oh ****' feeling as one laughs out loud!
20 July 2004, 04:25 AM
#57
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 872
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lemme tell you a story
I am on a Honda FireBlade, a 900cc, 167 mph, 135 rwhp road legal SuperBike. It is a sunny summers day and I am on my way back to London from Windy City (aka Portsmouth). The 'Blade is a very fast bike, in it's day, in fact on this very day in 1997, the ultimate sporting motorcycle. Cars are mobile chicanes, it does not occur to me to race against them. I despatch them unconsciously and as dismissively as I would pass a bollard.
I am hurtling along an unfamiliar road at speeds between 120 and 140 mph. Long drawn out sweeping bends along this strech of alternately single and dual carriageway unfold up and down and I am king of the road. It is windy today and I am buffeted around as I semi-tuck behind the screen of the tiny race fairing. I notice a big black car ahead and sit up slightly taking a 120 mph windblast on my chest and arms. He is fast and getting faster.
It takes a while to catch up and I make a conscious decision not to tuck back in behind the screen. It is a car for gawds sake and I am not going to look like I am trying. But I am. Sat up and buffeted severely by windblast I note the BMW badge and M-something sticker. We are up to and over 140 mph now and that-is-quick on a bike, on public roads, especially an A road. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Tough physically and tough mentally. Death lurks in the hedgerow, around the next bend, over the next rise. Every move is your last but one.
This is hard work, good grief. Hanging on is a real effort and a good workout but I have to try and make this look easy. The road bucks and weaves as I finally trickle past disappointingly slowly. My head is tossed around and pummeled by the wind as I nonchalently glance towards the driver, neck muscles straining against the pressure. A cursory glance just to show him I am not really trying, just to show that this is so easy for me I can afford to nod a casual hello.
He does not look at me. He is busy on the phone.
Screwd.
I am hurtling along an unfamiliar road at speeds between 120 and 140 mph. Long drawn out sweeping bends along this strech of alternately single and dual carriageway unfold up and down and I am king of the road. It is windy today and I am buffeted around as I semi-tuck behind the screen of the tiny race fairing. I notice a big black car ahead and sit up slightly taking a 120 mph windblast on my chest and arms. He is fast and getting faster.
It takes a while to catch up and I make a conscious decision not to tuck back in behind the screen. It is a car for gawds sake and I am not going to look like I am trying. But I am. Sat up and buffeted severely by windblast I note the BMW badge and M-something sticker. We are up to and over 140 mph now and that-is-quick on a bike, on public roads, especially an A road. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Tough physically and tough mentally. Death lurks in the hedgerow, around the next bend, over the next rise. Every move is your last but one.
This is hard work, good grief. Hanging on is a real effort and a good workout but I have to try and make this look easy. The road bucks and weaves as I finally trickle past disappointingly slowly. My head is tossed around and pummeled by the wind as I nonchalently glance towards the driver, neck muscles straining against the pressure. A cursory glance just to show him I am not really trying, just to show that this is so easy for me I can afford to nod a casual hello.
He does not look at me. He is busy on the phone.
Screwd.
