Windows

We are talking about juice fasting here.
For the first 2 days your body will use up the food remaining in your digestive tract from previous meals. For the next couple of days, your body will use the stored food reserves from your liver.
How long you fast is entirely up to you but it shouldn't end untill least 2 days after the sore heads or tiredness has gone.
Your body will survive fine on a week or 2 week juice fast, you are consuming a highly digestible food, You will NOT put more fat on during a juice fasting.
When the juice fast is finished you can eat as much raw food as you want as long as 75% of it is uncoocked.
When you are hungry, drink juice, it's hard to hurt yourself with vegetables.

Don't ask your doctor about fasting as it's not an illness so he will more than likely make up an opinion which will usualy be negative.

catalunya199again

there has been some excellent info on here as im a little over weight to 6'3 last time weighed i was 16 stone i was about 17.4 took about a month to lose it. but i just stopped eating and basically having 1 meal a day and that was tea which is usually chicken and veg. i think some are a bit dramatic like the juice diet for 1-2 weeks that must really hurt the body, just cut back what you eat and i havent had a drink in a month either doesnt really bother me either i would ideally like to be about 13.5 14 stone which when i start the gym again should come off quicker

milo

assuming you are a human, your body does NOT work like this. a human body does NOT have the capability to store amino acids in a way they can be used later. furthermore, your body in a fasting situation does NOT use up food reserves. instead it shuts down your metabolism and will store AS FAT anything that you consume less what little it requires to keep your organs functioning (and it is highly likely that it will severely harm the functioning of these). this is scientific fact.


your original post said only fruit juices. veggies aren't fruit. doing this with veggies is slightly less harmful - but is still harmful all the same. not recommended.


yeah - i wonder why... it's because ALL scientific evidence on the topic shows that this is a dangerous diet.

i would say do a full before/after body composition and blood tests including liver profile on this diet, as i guarantee you will not like the results... but id NEVER recommend anyone try this. you are totally abusing your body if you follow this.

milo

it will come off quicker if you don't put your body into starvation mode, which you have done with 1 meal a day. while what you were eating (chicken and veg) is a PERFECT choice... one meal a day = metabolism shut down.

with your dedication, 5 small portions of this spread over the day, you will have loads more energy and will shred the fat (without catabolising muscle.. which you have probably done a lot of with 1 meal a day).

Windows

My original post said juice fasting, anyone who knows what juice fasting is will know it is vegatables as well as fruit.
It is a scientific fact you will loose fat when juice fasting and not store it, I can also speak from personal experience along with the hundereds of other peeople I have spoke to who have juice fasted.
For the first 2 days your body will use up the food remaining in your digestive tract from previous meals. For the next couple of days, your body will use the stored food reserves from your liver, this is what happens.
You are not going into starvation mode when juice fasting, you are taking in highly digestable food in liquid form which will suport you body for the duration of the juice fast.
You are saying that being a vegitarian is a highly dangerous diet, when clearly it is not.

I think you are missing the point here, 18 stone at 18 years of age sounds almost like life threatening, and is definately hurting the body, and an extreemly dangerous diet.


It could be dangerous if you are pregnant or on medication but other wise the benifits of a juice fasting far outweighs the negatives, or slight side effects which can be slight headaches or tiredness.


As I said in my very first post it is an extreeme way, but effective, and will take the weight off you, but you have to maintain a health diet there on in , or it will be for nothing.

milo

you may lose some fat, you main gain fat (due to what i have stated with metabolic shut down). but you WILL lose muscle. thats scientific fact.

show me ONE scientific journal ANYWHERE that says absense of essential amino acids causes healthy fat loss without lean tissue loss. because you won't find one. in fact, since you're quoting scientific fact - show me a medical journal anywhere which backs up your claims.


pmsl... sorry bro but this is getting stupid - you are categorically wrong here. it is NOT scientific fact. show me ONE scientific journal that shows what you're saying is correct.

and z-list celebritys' detox diet books are NOT scientific journals.


that's NOT what i'm saying at all (dont put words into my mouth please), although that is a debatable point in itself. a vegetarian diet can include rice, oats, eggs, milk, all of which are healthy foods. if a vegetarian was only to eat veggies then yes - they would probably be unhealthy, because there's no way in hell they'd be able to take in enough calories to be healthy.

a healthy diet is one within 500 calories either side of maintenence (depending on your goals). you will NOT get close to this with a liquid only fruit/veg diet.


no, you are missing the point here. how is a dangerous "detox" diet going to help him? a healthy diet which he can maintain will help him.

he could also drop quite a few stone by hacking off his limbs - but you wouldn't suggest that.


lol... PLEASE stop posting this stuff - it is very unscientific and goes against all medical research. fasting in no way outweighs the negatives of it. it is dangerous and stupid and ANY properly qualified dietition or doctor that does not wish to get sued in court would NOT recommend any form of fasting diet. in fact, they would sorely advise AGAINST it.

btw, the "slight" side effect of headaches and tiredness is your body not able to provide your brain and other vital organs with sufficient nutrition to sustain life indefinitely. "slight side effect"?... i think not.

2000TLondon

a diet is not what you want or need, it's a change of lifestyle. short term diets offer no real benefit, it's hard to do, but if you can make excercise part of your day and be sensible it will become habit.

a very good book is Body for Life, by Bill Phillips, there is a website. He gets all these fat yanks onto a programme to win $1million by transforming their body in three months. A skinny mate of mine did it and bulked up with lots of muslce very impressively and quickly, easier to go up than down in size, though. You basically do 20 minutes a day three or four times a week, but they key is you hit your maximum each time, so after two or three weeks, your maximum work rate is higher each time, and therefore you push yourself to your limits. Hard work, but is good on time and you can see results quickly.

So why do you want/need to lose the weight so desperatley?

Windows

Wrong, the side effects are caused when the body purges the toxins that have been stored up in the cells over time.
When toxic residues enter the blood, they affect mind and body functions. Ketones, an intermediary metabolic product, may accumulate in the blood to high levels and cause ketoacidosis. Combined with high levels of urea, resulting from protein metabolism, this state can cause intense discomfort, headaches, back pain, dizziness, weakness and nausea.
Energy packets of glycogen are stored in the liver and muscles for use during bursts of physical activity.
The body utilizes glycogen from the liver and muscles for energy. This results in the familiar feeling of weakness. During a peak the body has an abundant supply of glucose, and glycogen replacement occurs at a rapid rate, creating abundant energy. There is also an intermediate state when glycogen is starting to be replaced. You will feel energetic but lack the endurance to match.
The body is overloaded with the work of removing toxins. Digestion will make matters worse.

Poor guy: I could go on here all day about the benifits of juice fasting, even for just 7 days then go onto a health raw food diet for the next 21 days.
Good luck with whatever you do.

Martin J Stirling

Hmmm, difficult one this Milo/Windows.

I am somewhere in the middle here. I understand the juicing diet and its advantages. Ultimately what it does is allow you to feed your body with far higher levels of nutrients and antioxidants, than you could ever hope to consume by eating foods whole. All juicing does is remove the fibrous pulp part of the plant and just leave you with the goodness. Juicing veg though I must say is pretty nasty, I've tried it. There are all sorts of supposedly wonderous veg and fruit juicing cocktails, which mostly taste rank.

Ultimately it's a about a healthy balance, so neither of you are right or wrong IMHO. Consuming just juice is rather OTT I'd say, and doesn't provide your body with much in the way of basic calories in the form of fat or carbohydrates. I agree that if selected carefully, a meat free diet can provide sufficient amounts of protein and amino acids - BUT, it is hard work and there are added benefits to eating some flesh foods which a veggy diet lacks.

At the same time, I think that eating meat regularly can be pretty bad for your body too. Apart from the obvious saturated fats, even if you choose lean meat, it still puts incredible strain on the digestive system. If you compare carnivores to herbivores, you see that both groups of animals have quite different digestive tracts. Meat eaters have short ones, and vegies long. Humans surprisingly have long tracts. This means that unlike plant foods, which are easily digested and are excreted in 8 hrs, meat can take over 72 hrs to pass through the body. It is estimated that the average Westerner has up to 5lbs of undigested meat wedged in their colon at any one time. Nice!
All this undigested meat that accumulates in there, not only prevents the proper absorbtion of nutrients into the body, but is also increasingly connected with certain cancers.

In the end I'd say, for a healhy compromise, eat a diet mainly consisting of a rich variety of fruit, vegetables and pulses, and try and subsitute your red meat with fish (preferably oily - mackerel, sardines, salmon etc) game and lean chicken.

I'm off to bed!

Mart.

milo

ketoacidosis is both dangerous and serious. this is NOT to be confused with ketosis.

ketoacidosis occurs in this form of starvation diet and is a sure-fire way to tell that your organs are not getting the nutrition they require (EXACTLY what you claim to be wrong.. even tho it isnt).

the difference between starvation ketoacidosis and ketosis is that in the latter, your vital organs end up getting fuelled by a difference fuel source than usual (i.e. fats instead of carbs). in starvation ketoacidosis, they don't get fuelled properly at all.

i cannot BELIEVE you are suggesting that people should intentionally get themselves into a starvation ketoacidosis state, even for a short period of time. your posts are among the most irresponsible posts ive read in a long time. ANY person in the medical field will tell you this.

milo

so wait - you're saying he's not wrong suggesting you should get your body into a state of starvation on purpose?

furthermore, what have i stated that ISNT a healthy balance?

wwp8

i suppose i am needing help too
still having prob losing 10lb
desired weight 12 stone

started diet at 1/1/04 .yes its a new year res.

and OMG i kept it yet.
peak weight ever was 16.2 stone
now around 12.10 stone
not losing a penny at the mo.
do 20 min of CV in morning and 30 min at night 7 days a week
doing the 1 min of 70 revs 20 secs at 100 revs then back again
eating steadily i suppose. lots of fruit and salad. an ok meal about 1 ish.
main changes are can do 40 pressups wide armed or 25 hands together
compared to 10 of W-A from last year
still got a big fat belly
just found out today i can fit in a 34 jeans from a 38 last year. the old 36s can just slide off
but the last month not lost a dime,
sigh
so don't know what to do.

milo

whats a typical days diet then exactly (and honestly!)?


this is a sign that you've lost muscle as well as fat (if you've still got a gut at 12ish stone). this is a diet problem. its also whats stopping u losing more fat. if u list up a typical days diet, i will tell you whats wrong and whats stopping u cutting up. and it wont involve any dangerous weight loss techniques such as chopping off an arm, or worse, eating a few calories a day in blended up fruit...

wwp8

average day,
not in any order or time but consists of
2-3 apples
salad in a bread roll
a grilled steak in a george foreman grill, with lots of boiled veg salad and half of tined beans.
also just started those meal replacement shakes
2-3 litres of water


some other days are just a pot noodle (instead of the steak meal)

milo

the time you're taking this food in is important (it needs to be spread evenly thoughout the day). you're also not taking in enough protein, nor are you taking in any good fats which are required to metabolise your existing fat.

mrp shakes are usually not great. i would say take a multivitamin, ditch the fruit (the simple sugars are not helping u right now) and bread roll and instead get a few more substantial meals in there consisting of fish, chicken and lots of veggies.

if you're around 12 stone u should be taking in 2000 clean calories a day just to stay the same weight. it sounds like you're currently taking in about 800-1000 and that's being generous. your metabolism is shot. SLOWLY up your calories each day spread over multiple small meals of around 400 calories each to let your metabolism get back up to a normal rate.

Martin J Stirling

I think you have to remember where you're coming from here Milo. As a bodybuilder/weightlifter, your protein consumption may be of high priority to you when devising your ideal diet, so I can understand how this couldn't possibly be a route for you.

Yet, I think for the average Joe, who lives a mostly sedentary lifestyle, their protein needs will be VERY modest, just enough to service the body in keeping bones, teeth, skin and skin etc in shape.

For a sedentary person, as long as they provide their body with a regular supply of calories and nutrieints via fresh fruit/veg juices, I cannot imagine it would have the severe consequences that you are predicting over a short period. I am sure in fact that any deficit in protein/amino acids, would be greatly offset by the benefits that the 'internal cleanse' and extra flood of nutrients would provide.

Nevertheless, as I said, I think it's rather an OTT solution, but I can see why someone could be tempted to have a go.

If meat protein were such an imperitive part of ones diet, with dire consequences if one went without, then why is it that in cultures where meat consumption is minimal, or non existant, there is are drastically fewer cases of 'Western diseases' such as cancer and osteoporosis?

Mart.

wwp8

ahh 12 stone 10 pounds should make it sound better,
strangely at mornings are 7 pounds though ???????
what are good and bad fats.
b4 i used to have cereal instead of other bits (ie salad butty and shakes)
then found out wheat bloats stomach up, then found out fructose glucose syrup is bad
i always thought less calories are better, ain't eating more calories gets weight up??

milo

i havent once mentioned high protein consumption in this set of posts. i have mentioned adequate essential amino acid consumption however. even those with a sedentary lifestyle have essential amino acid needs over and above what is in fruit.


this simply cannot be achieved realistically. a carrot has 40 calories approx. this 18 stone person needs around 2500 calories just for basic functionality (and that takes into account NOTHING about them moving around). thats 62.5 carrots in a day he'd need to take in - closer to 100 if he wants to expend any energy. and other veggies have LESS calories.


no - amino acids are the ONLY thing you need to survive, so no deficit can be offset. im not saying DONT take in extra nutrients - of course you should! but not INSTEAD of aminos. they are NOT mutually exclusive as you are making them out to be. furthermore, the "internal cleanse" can be achieved with a safe varied diet.


where did i say meat protein is essential? eggs, milk, chicken, fish are all viable ways to get protein. usually in the cultures you talk about - they have a high amount of protein and essential fats from oily fish which is rich in their diets.

also, it's about their entire lifestyle - they work less, have less stress, less pollution etc etc. there has been no link between eating meat and cancer.

milo

good fats are omega-3 fats, such as those found in oily fish.

bad fats are trans-fats (look for and avoid anything with vegetable fat or hydogenated fats) and saturated fats (although you do need SOME of these).


oats are a good bet for breakfast if u can handle them. they'll kickstart your metabolism and give u heaps of energy.

stick to whole foods, not processed foods.


no.. a daily deficit of about 500 calories from your maintenence level is the best to lose fat while maintaining lean mass. you DO need a calorie deficit - but you don't want to starve your body.

as you've probably found out - it's not much fun dieting to end up a smaller version of your old soft self - you want to diet in order to end up firm and defined (i.e. lose the fat, preserve the muscle). this can only be done by small, clean meals regularly.

Martin J Stirling

Ok, I cannot comment further on the Amino Acid thing, I don't have the specific knowledge to discuss it in such depth. Even so, I find it hard to believe that Amino Acids are more essential to sustain human life than the nutrients, vitamins, minerals and antioxidants derived from fruit and veg. I'd be interested to read more on that!

As for meat and Cancer, there is HUGE evidence that consuming red meat can cause some cancers, especially Colon and Prostate cancer. Any medical journal you care to cite will suggest that it is a big contributor. I have read on numerous occasions that an elimination of red meat from the diet can reduce the potential of Prostate Cancer by up to 90%. Hell, even the national health advisory board recommend that we keep our red meat consumption to no more than 3 times a week!

Mart.

milo

no... these studies have focused on saturated fats and chemicals produced during the cooking process. thiese are NOT studies linking meats to cancer as they have been mis-publicisied by some media as - they are studies linking cancer to saturated fats and chemicals produced while cooking. these are not the same thing. and not all meats or cooking processes result in a meat high in saturated fat.

the national cancer institute states that it is high FAT intake that contributes to colon cancer. according to them it is people who have high fat (for instance via eating high calorie fatty burgers that are at risk). NOT those who eat lean cuts of steak and beef. just because SOME red meats cooked in fat result in this higher risk - it doesn't mean all meats cause cancer.

please dont confuse these studies you've read to mean something different from what their findings state.

imlach

Is a good nights sleep not also essential to a healthy body?

In which case, why are some of you guys still up at 2.15am

milo

et tu

its not a good NIGHTS sleep thats essential. i sleep 10 hours a day. just not at 2:15am

wwp8

i found on a website ages ago, but ignored it due to because i didn't belive having 1800 cals. will actually make someone lose weight

maybe me i know $hit all really
i first though it don't look realistic.
seriously i thought the less the cals the better,. if i can i would eat 500 cals a day


ps what is amino acid and where are they from?

wwp8

oops g night need to get up at 9 tomorrow i mean today

milo

you're wrong.. honestly you are. you need calories to fuel your body and enable your metabolism. please do the research on this, as 500 cals a day is dangerously low and is sorely imparing your fat losses.


amino acids are the building blocks of life. they are found in proteins.

andrewdelvard

Got to give it to you Milo, you really know your stuff. Always really interesting to read your posts.

TelBoy

Are there awards for over-complication?

Honestly, this is so easy. Eat and drink less until you lose weight. Exercise more until you lose weight.

End of.

Poor Guy

i making soup for lunch
tinned tomatoes
peas
carrotts
onion
small amout of pasta
pepper
parsley

this shouldnt be too many calories but fill me up right?

TelBoy

Looks good. Fruit and vegetables in any quantity.