john banks

If only there was a nice AWD (I need it as I am a ***** driver ) setup to put it in... if only I remotely had the skill to do it...

If only the RS6 was nimbler and lighter...

Maybe I need a 3.3 in my Subaru

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Dave

Okaydokey re Nos...... Hadnt thought about the implications when not using the NOS....... I need switchable maps!! - Gems/Motec.....considerations, considerations.......... but has to be one which doesnt stall constantly at junctions like my Link does!!

Fuzz

Isnt yours a GT32 with a p20 exhuast housing? - you could ask RClarke I guess or Turbo Dynamics?...........

nom

Whirling back to the original question
I'm very happy with my TMI-141S. Or something like that, anyway , which is a sort of TD05/06 but with a different wheel to the 20G, I think... doesn't seem laggy to me, & is good for 400+ at 1.4bar-ish (? Not 100% sure about the numbers as I like driving rather than sitting on rollers ). But Alan (G) got 420-odd at ~1.5bar, I think, when the fuelling was still a bit off... but right sort of ball-park anyway for the answer to the question .
Mark would know more. At least, I hope he does

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

Any idea on price for one of these TMI-141S jobbies either new or second hand.Im just trying to weigh up my options at the moment seeing whats out there

john banks

The TMI was more like 390 IIRC and the 20G 415, and there was also a high failure rate for the TMIs I believe?

nom

They now have a seriously overspecced, umm, centre spinning thingy which was the only possible thing that could have caused the problem...
Dunno about the bhp - you may be right - but I'm pretty convinced Alan got 420ish when it was part-mapped (he was convinced he could get more). But it was a while ago & I have a mind like a sieve

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

got jap performance mag here and alang got his 415bhp/352lbs on my errrrr his TD06 turbo

Andy.F

Alans 415bhp was indeed on one of my TD05/06-20G's (which Steve now owns )
IIRC, his Tmi-141 hybrid thingy fell apart long before it got near 400 bhp

Andy

nom

Na - that wouldn't have been it - this was before the 20G was 'stable' (had big surge issues which, I presume, have been sorted out now?).
Ah - found it! John was right - at somewhere under 1.4bar on a 'very, very hot day' (Alan's words - he's Scottish - so translate 'hot' how you see fit ) it got just short of 390, at the rollers when John was there, which is probably how he remembered!

Pavlo

I think it's rather unfair to suggest that the TMI version will just fall apart regardless, as they both have the same internals. In fact the only difference is the compressor wheel.

Andy.F

Yes nom and soon after it blew up in spectacular fashion and he got his money back. After trying seven different turbos with faults galore, Alan settled with a TD05/06-20G and lived happily ever after.

It sounds like a fairy tale but I can assure you Alan was not best chuffed !

Andy

Andy.F

Exactly Paul, the compressor wheel was overspeeding. Refer to the comp maps for the respective rpm ratings and flows for both compressors.

Andy

Pavlo

the compressor maps don't mean it was overspeeding, it just means the 20g gos slower. I heard (from Alan) that the bearings went, and that it was rebuilt with heavier duty items but not refitted as he had the 20g by then.

I personally don't like the surge on the 20g, and think it's less than idea, but something people live with because the other aspects of the turbo are so good. However I think the 18g might be a better unit for the 2.0 engine, as the turbo overall seems rather limited by the exhaust side.

paul

john banks

It's a nice idea to try to build something to stop the surge, but if the compressor map of the wheel used to do so has a tiny triangle where it won't surge where the original would, but then stops in the interesting midrange pressure ratios that you could run on the 20G after 4500 RPM, and has the uprated thrust bearing requirements and explosions to back up this missing area of the compressor map that is so much fun, then it might be worth trying a few other designs?

18G does sound good, wish Moray would tell us more of what he thinks of it, but he is a dark horse

David_Wallis

I've been out on track in pats car back when it was running the 18g and nothing passed us.. but seriously it was fooking cool.. just wish I could remember better..

Moray isnt a dark horse.. just ask him.. he's one of the most open people I know.. (no jokes) and I dont know him that well!!

David

AlanG

I had two failures on the TMI-141S. The first one was strange because the car was running really well at the time and there was nothing to suggest any problem with it. The problem didn't come to light until i took it off to change my std inlet inlet pipe to something a bit bigger, that i seen some scuff marks from the wheel on the cover. Talking of which {shameless plug! } Anyone want a 63mm bore inlet pipe as seen in the mag complete with the Samco hoses and air filter?

Mark swapped the turbo with a new one, but that lasted erm.... about.. erm....80 miles i think.....not many anyway. (Glasgow to Inverary, you work it out ) when it started to make a whine sound commensurate with a turbo spinning up, but didn't do it all the time.
Now i was concerned, cause this was the first run in the car and i hadn't even used much boost. It was a Sunday run for me and the missus, no yee ha round the countryside or anything like that, just a chilled day out enjoying the sunshine and a picnic.

I phoned Mark there and then at Inverary, and after discussing, it was decided that since there was a fault with it, try and drive home, take it off and send it back, which i did.

Mark, understandably (as was i) was gutted that i had had another failure.

The problem though was the distance to drive back. By the time i got home the unit had seized solid, so made diagnosis as to what the original fault was more difficult.

Either way, Mark sorted it out in jig time and a replacement was sent out with uprated bearings in the core which i believe had came about with Turbo Dynamics experience of this type of hybrid.

Because the car had spent quite some time off the road, Andy made up an 06 from an 05 i had and i fired that into the car to get me mobile again. When the replacement turbo arrived i thought it would be better to sell a turbo which hadn't been on a car, than one which had been used.
Understandably as well, despite the reassurances that it would be okay, i had had two failures, so didn't want to chance another one. I just couldn't convince my brain that it will be alright, i just wanted the car running now to get some use out of it.

I believe the new owner has had many happy miles with it, so the uprated bearings are the answer for that unit. Nom as well, who runs the same turbo feels the same?

I did like the TMI turbo though. It felt very good on the road. Kinda difficult to describe but felt very refind. It spooled up very smoothly, no surge or anything like that. Probably best to describe it in use as similar to a std turbo. No funny noises or quirks and quibbles.

When i ran it on that "hot day", it sounds corny, but the car didn't have the map finished to see what timing i could run with it. Only the fuelling had been looked at but even that was a bit rich and needed leaned out.

Don't know what to make of it, but if you look at the graph on that day, the car gave 387 at the flywheel and 282 at the wheels at 1.4 bar.
For comparison JB's car hit 394 at the flywheel and 277 at the wheels.
John's ran 1.6 bar. Difference between John's and mine was i ran aftermarket headers (Gruppe-S) and Optimax, John ran std ported headers with Optimax and NF (2 bottles per tank?, can't remember)

My (20G) 415 result at flywheel gave 291 at the wheels with same boost and fuel, so not much difference IMO, but torque was a lot better on the 20G, however, this was with an optimised map as well. It was also cooler than that previous run on the rollers.
Thinking about it, i don't reckon optimising the map on the TMI would have made a huge difference (we're splitting hairs here, i think) and both units *feel* similar on the road , but for some reason, the TMI felt the smoother unit. Who knows, it's only an opinion, not necessarily correct.

PICKLE

Alan, your right in that the TMI is running Ok on my car, but must admit I am a little worried about all that has just been said in this thread regarding the TMI's failures and in particular the failure of the turbo that is now fitted to my car!! I have No experience of the TD06 20G personally, but the TMI seems to be a good all round performer for a lightly modded car like mine.

AlanG

The turbo in your car was a replacement for my 2nd failed unit. It's not the same turbo!!

My 1st failure was unexplained and it was reckoned it could possibly have been an issue with the machining of the compressor cover for the compressor wheel.

On the 2nd turbo, the compressor wheels retaining nut had came loose and rattled about the compressor blades.

What Mark and Turbo Dynamics couldn't understand, was why i was unlucky enough to have 2 failures since other people had bought the TMI and were running them quite happily. It's not as if i was pushing the turbo harder than anyone else, i still only ran up to 1.4 bar.
Turbo Dynamics had seen on either one or possibly two occasions before, with similar problems to what i had and they had uprated the bearings in those cases which 100% cured it, so now all units are supplied with these bearings in them.

Both TD and Mark told me it was a 100% fix and so who am i to disagree and judging by the lack of posts on the likes of this BB with failures using the TMI, suggest they are right.

As for failures, it only seems to be me that has had a failure with the TMI which is hardly conclusive that they are bad turbo's. Andy has also had at least one failure with a customers turbo for example, but in % terms of turbos sold to failures i think these guys are doing pretty well. Thats what warranties are there for after all.

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

So based on the above information looks i will get a 20g when funds allow unless anyone knows someone thats selling one at a reasonable cost
worth a try

colin c

Alan out of interest what turbo are you running now on your Scooby ?

I can remember you saying now that you had acheived over 400 bhp with the TD05/06 the modding was going to stop If you have sold your 05/06 does this mean you are now de-tunning your Scooby.

I'm also using a TD05/06 but at the moment I'm unable to give an opinion due to a lack of mapping. All I can say is my RA gearing is way too short for it and when the turbo comes on boost ( 1.2 bar at the moment ) the car feels like it want's to take off.

Colin.

AlanG

Is Fangoria not selling his at the moment? or is it sold now?

The 20G is very good value for money in comparison to the cost to build the TMI, but the TMI requires the compressor cover machining and a very expensive Garrett wheel along with the uprated bearings.

For most people cost is the biggest consideration when it comes to aftermarket bits. Certainly quality will be secondary to cost if there is a comparable product available. A bit like buying an Audi or a Volkswagon. Which is perceived as being the better product?

I haven't got any turbo in the car just now Colin.
The mileage on the engine i've got is creeping up and am thinking that while the engine is in very good nick, it may be worthwhile selling it and using that money to put towards another one. Better that way than having a blown engine sitting about the garage worth nothing.

{Shameless plug #2} Anyone want an engine? Compressions fine, no blowby from piston rings or from heads...... {end of shameless plug}

Alan

Fangoria

iTrader: (1)

Alan

td05/06 went up for sale but I got the asking price (provisionally) within 24 hrs!!