P1 vs 22B
16 July 2004, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by (R-6)
22b, Why? made in 1997, its took 6 plus years to better it : i.e. spec c, and how much better is it?
Originally Posted by (R-6)
More than happy to take on a spec c on the track (with the same power), think you will find that six years of development don’t mean that much in track terms.
Originally Posted by (R-6)
The 22 is the ultimate scoob, you don’t have to be the fastest to be the best, the spec looks like a! Well any other sti! what looks like a 22?
not reknown for its out and out ability on the road, you dont want to park it anywhere incase someone dents your wing and the fact you can no longer get wings for these cars from subaru makes life difficult, you have to also remember that this car is basically a version 4 type r with a 2.2ltr engine and wider track, thats about the only difference between the 2 cars.... its a very special limited edition scoob, but not the ultimate.
Originally Posted by (R-6)
How many 22B’s have you guy even seen, never mind been in?
the first one was back in 2000 when i was purchasing my first scoob 
definately the best looking classic out there
Originally Posted by (R-6)
The 22B was around £43’000 when new, if you could get one, sold out in 24 hours, 6’000 deposits taken on 423 cars.
The Exact price was 5 million yen for a JDM car.
Originally Posted by (R-6)
Nuff said.
Originally Posted by (R-6)
P1’s don’t carry that pedigree.
Originally Posted by (R-6)
Spec –c “You aint got no soul!! (al piciono)
Chris
Chris
(drive one, its a complete animal )Tony
Last edited by TonyBurns; 16 July 2004 at 10:26 AM.
16 July 2004, 10:34 AM
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Yup im happy
I love the 22B though, its a very special car but i enjoy driving my scoob, i couldnt do that in a 22B, id be paranoid of getting a dink in the door or scratching one of those 850 quid alloys now if i had 2 scoobs..... id probably have the one i have now and an MY05 JDM STi
Tony
I love the 22B though, its a very special car but i enjoy driving my scoob, i couldnt do that in a 22B, id be paranoid of getting a dink in the door
or scratching one of those 850 quid alloys now if i had 2 scoobs..... id probably have the one i have now and an MY05 JDM STi Tony
16 July 2004, 11:24 AM
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Interesting about a spec c. However, it's a car I have no desire at all to own along with any other 'new' Impreza. I've had 3 classics and will be getting a 22b from a P1 in the near future.
16 July 2004, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by scoobynutta555
Interesting about a spec c. However, it's a car I have no desire at all to own along with any other 'new' Impreza. I've had 3 classics and will be getting a 22b from a P1 in the near future.
www.just-sports.org as they have 3 22B's in (one being a 000 numbered car )Tony
PS, out of all the scoobs there, id have the 555 V Ltd
16 July 2004, 11:59 AM
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Called them a few days ago. The 000 Grist car has been sold. Of the 2 uk 22bs the high mileage one has apparently been looked at by quite a few people, some on 22b.com, and they haven't bought. The other one is a bit OTT price wise and theres no movement. Also, trade in price was 16k, which didn't appeal.
More on the higher mileage one:
I *think* its the same one being talked about before by somebody else on 22b.com. He says the car was up at £21k, had rust on it, and a 'hard life'. Might not be the same car, but a bit co-incidental that they have the exact same mileage and the rarity of the car.
Anyway, I'm looking at 2 imports now in a different garage.
More on the higher mileage one:
I *think* its the same one being talked about before by somebody else on 22b.com. He says the car was up at £21k, had rust on it, and a 'hard life'. Might not be the same car, but a bit co-incidental that they have the exact same mileage and the rarity of the car.
Anyway, I'm looking at 2 imports now in a different garage.
Last edited by scoobynutta555; 16 July 2004 at 12:04 PM.
16 July 2004, 12:57 PM
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more nonsense I see coming from this thread!
22B suspension is nothing like sti 4 apart from exterior appearance. It is differently sprung and valved and the ride quality on the road is significantly firmer. in my opinion, it isn't too pleasant.
Tony, as for the comment about being designed for the track, the 22B WAS designed for the track, thats why its suspension is the way it is. The wider tires and wider track count for a hell of a lot, and make a huge difference compared with other imprezas. On track you can simply drive round the outside of them.
as for individuality, well, your quick rack ratio is borrowed from the 22B which steering wise is totally unlike any other impreza due to its geometry. Understeer isn't eliminated, but a trip to powerstation for the bumpsteer mod, and it is.
It still has the dccd which is the biggest killer of understeer of any impreza mod.
As for it being a type r with a 2.2 engine
I am ashamed! What aboutt he twin plate racing clutch, the hand assembed body, the seem welded chassis, not to mention the one off suspension components, the one off front and rear hubs and hub carriers.
Then theres the 2.2 cdb engine. Peter stevens designed body work and adjustable rear wing! matt dhasboard which is not fitted to any other impreza.
Admittedly there are many cosmetic diffrences but it goes a bit further than that.
And yes you are right about it only costing 25k in japan, but I think you will find that your spec c only costs 13k in japan. Most of the price is shipping and taxation as well as agents fees, sva registration etc in this country.
But having said all this, ultimate needs to be defined. You are spot on about driving it in fear. I am guilty of that. I think i would enjoy a type r far more, but its too late for me, mine is modified to the hilt, despite my keeping all the original bits.
I think when most people say the ultimate they actually mean the most desirable not the most capable. With that in midn I would still put the 22B up there. if we were talking most capable, I think it would have to be a blobeye spec c based type 25 assuming we are talking out of the box cars.
22B suspension is nothing like sti 4 apart from exterior appearance. It is differently sprung and valved and the ride quality on the road is significantly firmer. in my opinion, it isn't too pleasant.
Tony, as for the comment about being designed for the track, the 22B WAS designed for the track, thats why its suspension is the way it is. The wider tires and wider track count for a hell of a lot, and make a huge difference compared with other imprezas. On track you can simply drive round the outside of them.
as for individuality, well, your quick rack ratio is borrowed from the 22B which steering wise is totally unlike any other impreza due to its geometry. Understeer isn't eliminated, but a trip to powerstation for the bumpsteer mod, and it is.
It still has the dccd which is the biggest killer of understeer of any impreza mod.
As for it being a type r with a 2.2 engine
I am ashamed! What aboutt he twin plate racing clutch, the hand assembed body, the seem welded chassis, not to mention the one off suspension components, the one off front and rear hubs and hub carriers.Then theres the 2.2 cdb engine. Peter stevens designed body work and adjustable rear wing! matt dhasboard which is not fitted to any other impreza.
Admittedly there are many cosmetic diffrences but it goes a bit further than that.
And yes you are right about it only costing 25k in japan, but I think you will find that your spec c only costs 13k in japan. Most of the price is shipping and taxation as well as agents fees, sva registration etc in this country.
But having said all this, ultimate needs to be defined. You are spot on about driving it in fear. I am guilty of that. I think i would enjoy a type r far more, but its too late for me, mine is modified to the hilt, despite my keeping all the original bits.
I think when most people say the ultimate they actually mean the most desirable not the most capable. With that in midn I would still put the 22B up there. if we were talking most capable, I think it would have to be a blobeye spec c based type 25 assuming we are talking out of the box cars.
16 July 2004, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam M
more nonsense I see coming from this thread!
22B suspension is nothing like sti 4 apart from exterior appearance. It is differently sprung and valved and the ride quality on the road is significantly firmer. in my opinion, it isn't too pleasant.
Tony, as for the comment about being designed for the track, the 22B WAS designed for the track, thats why its suspension is the way it is. The wider tires and wider track count for a hell of a lot, and make a huge difference compared with other imprezas. On track you can simply drive round the outside of them.
as for individuality, well, your quick rack ratio is borrowed from the 22B which steering wise is totally unlike any other impreza due to its geometry. Understeer isn't eliminated, but a trip to powerstation for the bumpsteer mod, and it is.
It still has the dccd which is the biggest killer of understeer of any impreza mod.
As for it being a type r with a 2.2 engine I am ashamed! What aboutt he twin plate racing clutch, the hand assembed body, the seem welded chassis, not to mention the one off suspension components, the one off front and rear hubs and hub carriers.
Then theres the 2.2 cdb engine. Peter stevens designed body work and adjustable rear wing! matt dhasboard which is not fitted to any other impreza.
Admittedly there are many cosmetic diffrences but it goes a bit further than that.
And yes you are right about it only costing 25k in japan, but I think you will find that your spec c only costs 13k in japan. Most of the price is shipping and taxation as well as agents fees, sva registration etc in this country.
But having said all this, ultimate needs to be defined. You are spot on about driving it in fear. I am guilty of that. I think i would enjoy a type r far more, but its too late for me, mine is modified to the hilt, despite my keeping all the original bits.
I think when most people say the ultimate they actually mean the most desirable not the most capable. With that in midn I would still put the 22B up there. if we were talking most capable, I think it would have to be a blobeye spec c based type 25 assuming we are talking out of the box cars.
22B suspension is nothing like sti 4 apart from exterior appearance. It is differently sprung and valved and the ride quality on the road is significantly firmer. in my opinion, it isn't too pleasant.
Tony, as for the comment about being designed for the track, the 22B WAS designed for the track, thats why its suspension is the way it is. The wider tires and wider track count for a hell of a lot, and make a huge difference compared with other imprezas. On track you can simply drive round the outside of them.
as for individuality, well, your quick rack ratio is borrowed from the 22B which steering wise is totally unlike any other impreza due to its geometry. Understeer isn't eliminated, but a trip to powerstation for the bumpsteer mod, and it is.
It still has the dccd which is the biggest killer of understeer of any impreza mod.
As for it being a type r with a 2.2 engine
I am ashamed! What aboutt he twin plate racing clutch, the hand assembed body, the seem welded chassis, not to mention the one off suspension components, the one off front and rear hubs and hub carriers.Then theres the 2.2 cdb engine. Peter stevens designed body work and adjustable rear wing! matt dhasboard which is not fitted to any other impreza.
Admittedly there are many cosmetic diffrences but it goes a bit further than that.
And yes you are right about it only costing 25k in japan, but I think you will find that your spec c only costs 13k in japan. Most of the price is shipping and taxation as well as agents fees, sva registration etc in this country.
But having said all this, ultimate needs to be defined. You are spot on about driving it in fear. I am guilty of that. I think i would enjoy a type r far more, but its too late for me, mine is modified to the hilt, despite my keeping all the original bits.
I think when most people say the ultimate they actually mean the most desirable not the most capable. With that in midn I would still put the 22B up there. if we were talking most capable, I think it would have to be a blobeye spec c based type 25 assuming we are talking out of the box cars.
(lol)
16 July 2004, 01:33 PM
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**** it, drive the things, make it beautiful again if you ever want to sell it. Mines paint is a dissaster these days with stone chips 'n all. Been thinking about having it sprayed for a year...but it'd just happen again so can't be bothered.
C
C
16 July 2004, 03:42 PM
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Hiya Adam,
There are a few things i hadnt mentioned there, the suspension for example, its different for both the JDM and UK 22B's, but the track was the biggest difference in all, but the 22B isnt capable of doing over 1g in corners, the spec C is capable of 1.1g, a little bit of a difference but that can equate to 5 mph quicker
Price wise, a spec C (17 inch) in japan goes for 3.5 million yen (approx 19k) which is quite cheap, then compare that with the GL, which with all the extras is cheaper still!!
The quick rack though has been around since the time of the first STi type RA's (as an option) back in 95, so not sourced just from the 22B
But as ive stated, the 22B is the most special impreza they have made for the public, but its not the ultimate impreza, that will be the latest model with the rolling developement work (even mine is outdated now 
)
Tony
There are a few things i hadnt mentioned there, the suspension for example, its different for both the JDM and UK 22B's, but the track was the biggest difference in all, but the 22B isnt capable of doing over 1g in corners, the spec C is capable of 1.1g, a little bit of a difference but that can equate to 5 mph quicker
Price wise, a spec C (17 inch) in japan goes for 3.5 million yen (approx 19k) which is quite cheap, then compare that with the GL, which with all the extras is cheaper still!!
The quick rack though has been around since the time of the first STi type RA's (as an option) back in 95, so not sourced just from the 22B
But as ive stated, the 22B is the most special impreza they have made for the public, but its not the ultimate impreza, that will be the latest model with the rolling developement work
(even mine is outdated now )Tony
16 July 2004, 03:51 PM
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lol. the lateral G will be a function of the coefficient of friction generated by the standard tires. Are you really going to compare Pirelli P-zero rosso (the worst dry weather tire I have ever driven!) with bridgestone RE070s, (the best dry weather tire I have ever driven!).
be serious here.
and where do you get the cornering G limts of a 22b from? i haven't seen those written down.
and with regard to the quick rack, the early RAs ran a 2.5 turn quick rack, the 22B is the only classic which came standard with the 2.25 turn rack.
With regard to pricing, you are still confusing exchange rates here. You can't compare exchange rate now with exchange rate then to suit your argument. That isn't cricket. If you want to make a comparison, then compare the japanese price for consistency, 3.5million versus 5 million, and it doesn't change the fact that all 400 were sold within half an hour!
Having written what I did above, I am really keen to see what my car can do with RE070s in 255 40 17 guise fitted all round.
I have already said that the most capable impreza is more likely to be a spec c based type 25, what more do you want me to say?
be serious here.
and where do you get the cornering G limts of a 22b from? i haven't seen those written down.
and with regard to the quick rack, the early RAs ran a 2.5 turn quick rack, the 22B is the only classic which came standard with the 2.25 turn rack.
With regard to pricing, you are still confusing exchange rates here. You can't compare exchange rate now with exchange rate then to suit your argument. That isn't cricket
. If you want to make a comparison, then compare the japanese price for consistency, 3.5million versus 5 million, and it doesn't change the fact that all 400 were sold within half an hour!Having written what I did above, I am really keen to see what my car can do with RE070s in 255 40 17 guise fitted all round.
I have already said that the most capable impreza is more likely to be a spec c based type 25, what more do you want me to say?
16 July 2004, 04:06 PM
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You should get that book Adam
The 22B pulled a .93G on the skidpan, which is pretty damn good really
It does also say about the 400 production cars and how subaru then built another 25 for export, of which the uk got 16 and australia got 5 (unfortunately i dont know what the exchange rate was at the time when the 22B was launched but id say it wasnt going to be much different than that of today)
Tony
PS, if you are looking to get some RE070's in (i know the new JDM STi has 235/45/17's but not sure if they do a 40 version of these?) let me know who you get them from as ill be after some more for my scoob
The 22B pulled a .93G on the skidpan, which is pretty damn good really
It does also say about the 400 production cars and how subaru then built another 25 for export, of which the uk got 16 and australia got 5 (unfortunately i dont know what the exchange rate was at the time when the 22B was launched but id say it wasnt going to be much different than that of today
)Tony
PS, if you are looking to get some RE070's in (i know the new JDM STi has 235/45/17's but not sure if they do a 40 version of these?) let me know who you get them from as ill be after some more for my scoob
16 July 2004, 04:30 PM
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Re: the suspension being too hard, I was lucky enough to drive my friends 22B the other week, (he posts on here as 666). This car is the cleanest and most looked after car I've ever seen. It only has around 5k on the clock, rarely comes out and is so clean you could eat your dinner off the inside of the wheels. When I drove it the suspension didn't feel much harder than my car (a UK running prodrive suspension and 300+bhp).
The only slight problem I had with the car was the gearing felt a bit short, with the amount of torque it has it could have done with longer gearing (it's a JDM car btw, I believe the UK cars had longer gearing). I drove it quite hard aswell, and it just felt really special. Can't put my finger on it, but it just felt so 'alive'.
The only slight problem I had with the car was the gearing felt a bit short, with the amount of torque it has it could have done with longer gearing (it's a JDM car btw, I believe the UK cars had longer gearing). I drove it quite hard aswell, and it just felt really special. Can't put my finger on it, but it just felt so 'alive'.
Last edited by DreXeL; 16 July 2004 at 04:43 PM.
16 July 2004, 04:37 PM
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Tony, that books sounds great. I still say its the tires!
RE070s can be had in 255/40/17 as that is standard on the rear of the NSX type r. Just have to ask powerstation to get them for me.
comparing the prices in japan is the only way to take the exchange rate out of the picture.
and it comes out at 1 and 3/7 the price of the spec c! so its almost 50% more money. Certainly not worth that but a fact none the less.
RE070s can be had in 255/40/17 as that is standard on the rear of the NSX type r. Just have to ask powerstation to get them for me.
comparing the prices in japan is the only way to take the exchange rate out of the picture.
and it comes out at 1 and 3/7 the price of the spec c! so its almost 50% more money. Certainly not worth that but a fact none the less.
16 July 2004, 08:41 PM
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i aint sure about all this debating, if you were to go on to a "mitsi" forum do they bikker about who' s got the best and what is the "ultimate" mitsi
scoobs- STAND TOGETHER!
spec c driver (the ultimate)
p.s tony burnes you put up a great argument just wished i could be bothered to type in all the facts you have! good on ya.
scoobs- STAND TOGETHER!
spec c driver (the ultimate)
p.s tony burnes you put up a great argument just wished i could be bothered to type in all the facts you have! good on ya.
17 July 2004, 12:52 AM
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i currently own a sti 5 type r v-limited and the only other scoob i would sell it for would be a 22b i wouldnt sell my car 4 any of the newer shape scoobs as for the p1 its probably the ultimate classic shape uk car apart from the 16 22b but its a type r with out all the good toys so how can ne1 say it is the ultimate scooby when it aint as good as a type r
17 July 2004, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam M
more nonsense I see coming from this thread!
22B suspension is nothing like sti 4 apart from exterior appearance. It is differently sprung and valved and the ride quality on the road is significantly firmer. in my opinion, it isn't too pleasant.
Tony, as for the comment about being designed for the track, the 22B WAS designed for the track, thats why its suspension is the way it is. The wider tires and wider track count for a hell of a lot, and make a huge difference compared with other imprezas. On track you can simply drive round the outside of them.
as for individuality, well, your quick rack ratio is borrowed from the 22B which steering wise is totally unlike any other impreza due to its geometry. Understeer isn't eliminated, but a trip to powerstation for the bumpsteer mod, and it is.
It still has the dccd which is the biggest killer of understeer of any impreza mod.
As for it being a type r with a 2.2 engine I am ashamed! What aboutt he twin plate racing clutch, the hand assembed body, the seem welded chassis, not to mention the one off suspension components, the one off front and rear hubs and hub carriers.
Then theres the 2.2 cdb engine. Peter stevens designed body work and adjustable rear wing! matt dhasboard which is not fitted to any other impreza.
Admittedly there are many cosmetic diffrences but it goes a bit further than that.
And yes you are right about it only costing 25k in japan, but I think you will find that your spec c only costs 13k in japan. Most of the price is shipping and taxation as well as agents fees, sva registration etc in this country.
But having said all this, ultimate needs to be defined. You are spot on about driving it in fear. I am guilty of that. I think i would enjoy a type r far more, but its too late for me, mine is modified to the hilt, despite my keeping all the original bits.
I think when most people say the ultimate they actually mean the most desirable not the most capable. With that in midn I would still put the 22B up there. if we were talking most capable, I think it would have to be a blobeye spec c based type 25 assuming we are talking out of the box cars.
22B suspension is nothing like sti 4 apart from exterior appearance. It is differently sprung and valved and the ride quality on the road is significantly firmer. in my opinion, it isn't too pleasant.
Tony, as for the comment about being designed for the track, the 22B WAS designed for the track, thats why its suspension is the way it is. The wider tires and wider track count for a hell of a lot, and make a huge difference compared with other imprezas. On track you can simply drive round the outside of them.
as for individuality, well, your quick rack ratio is borrowed from the 22B which steering wise is totally unlike any other impreza due to its geometry. Understeer isn't eliminated, but a trip to powerstation for the bumpsteer mod, and it is.
It still has the dccd which is the biggest killer of understeer of any impreza mod.
As for it being a type r with a 2.2 engine
I am ashamed! What aboutt he twin plate racing clutch, the hand assembed body, the seem welded chassis, not to mention the one off suspension components, the one off front and rear hubs and hub carriers.Then theres the 2.2 cdb engine. Peter stevens designed body work and adjustable rear wing! matt dhasboard which is not fitted to any other impreza.
Admittedly there are many cosmetic diffrences but it goes a bit further than that.
And yes you are right about it only costing 25k in japan, but I think you will find that your spec c only costs 13k in japan. Most of the price is shipping and taxation as well as agents fees, sva registration etc in this country.
But having said all this, ultimate needs to be defined. You are spot on about driving it in fear. I am guilty of that. I think i would enjoy a type r far more, but its too late for me, mine is modified to the hilt, despite my keeping all the original bits.
I think when most people say the ultimate they actually mean the most desirable not the most capable. With that in midn I would still put the 22B up there. if we were talking most capable, I think it would have to be a blobeye spec c based type 25 assuming we are talking out of the box cars.
But yes the 22B is the kingpin of all subies and is the icon
19 July 2004, 10:41 AM
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Ej20T man,
good points, but if you look at what I was saying about quick racks, I said 2.25 ratio was new, not quick racks in general. Prior to that they were 2.5 turns lock to lock.
A valid point about understeer, its the geometry that improves that aspect, and is something where the spec c sets the standards.
Enginewise I am not sure what is wrong with a closed deck 2.2 short stroke engine. There is no reason why it is any weaker than the 2.0, in fact it should be stronger as the block has greater support for the liners. The design is slightly less ideal as it is further from square geometry but that doesn't make it weaker. You can't quesion that greater gas volume spools the turbo quicker either. There isn't much to choose between the engines but if push came to shove I would take a 2.2 over a 2.0 due to it having lower specific power output for the same power.
You forgot to mention the seem welded chassis.
Anyway, as I said before, none of this is relevant, there is no argument here! You ahve to love the spec c for what it can do - it IS probably the most capable impreza. But you have to love the 22b for what it is.
good points, but if you look at what I was saying about quick racks, I said 2.25 ratio was new, not quick racks in general. Prior to that they were 2.5 turns lock to lock.
A valid point about understeer, its the geometry that improves that aspect, and is something where the spec c sets the standards.
Enginewise I am not sure what is wrong with a closed deck 2.2 short stroke engine. There is no reason why it is any weaker than the 2.0, in fact it should be stronger as the block has greater support for the liners. The design is slightly less ideal as it is further from square geometry but that doesn't make it weaker. You can't quesion that greater gas volume spools the turbo quicker either. There isn't much to choose between the engines but if push came to shove I would take a 2.2 over a 2.0 due to it having lower specific power output for the same power.
You forgot to mention the seem welded chassis.
Anyway, as I said before, none of this is relevant, there is no argument here! You ahve to love the spec c for what it can do - it IS probably the most capable impreza. But you have to love the 22b for what it is.
Last edited by Adam M; 23 July 2004 at 10:09 PM.
23 July 2004, 08:57 PM
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Each to their own, but I think the 22B has the best front of all scoobs, its pretty much a WRC front bumper / fog covers etc...
MB
MB
24 July 2004, 10:02 AM
#90
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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Originally Posted by Dark Blue Mark
STi8 Spec C isnt a bug eye... Regardless, were talking performance I think, and things have changed massively since the classic (<MY00) days. Twin scroll turbos, DCCD, suretrac etc etc...
Goalposts have moved....
MB
Goalposts have moved....
MB
BM
