chiark

Any ideas how it installed itself? I guess it's an executable, or a browser download?

CrisPDuk

We had absolutely no idea where it came from It must have come through a backdoor whilst one of us was using the PC though, as we have the usual protections; firewall, ad blocker, spyware, etc:

mj

I think my neighbours came through as her son was looking at an adult site - he thought it was one of those dialoge boxes that appears asking if you want to continue - you click "NO" and it continues anyway

no AV, no FW, no popupstopper, no surprise really

chiark

Right, I know where you're coming from... I know this is off topic, but it might help someone so I thought it worth posting.

This is sorta bolting the door after the horse has long gone and is enjoying pastures new, but it might help?

There's been a few recommendations to install Firefox to get around the worst of the browser exploits, as this blocks popups, won't run activeX etc. People seem to associate Internet explorer = web, so change the Firefox shortcut icon to use the IE icon, and call it internet explorer too. Just tell 'em its a new, latest version and people will be happy. Tabbed browsing and integrated google search make it all worth while for me - plus it works! Download from http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

You may find that some sites say "we don't work with your browser" after doing this, so go to extensions in the tools menu of firefox, and download the user agent switcher - this allows the browser to tell the web server that it's actually IE, and works 99 times out of 100 if the site isn't completely cripped to work with IE only.

As AngryNorth says, some products are just fundamentally insecure and older versions of IE fall into that category in my view. The real pain in the, ah, neck is that IE is so embedded into the OS that even if you use another browser, to be safe from exploits you need to patch IE too. So I guess I'm agreeing with AN, Windows is fundamentally less secure

Turning on Windows Update (if available) is a good idea. If it's not available, then upgrading the OS is probably a good idea too

There's some free AV stuff out there which is quite good, and also free firewalls, or there's cheap and friendly stuff that works. A colleague uses McAfee Security Centre which does pretty much everything in one package, and hasn't had any problems. I use IPCop as my "master" firewall, ZoneAlarm on my PC and Norton Anti Virus on the PC too. And SpamBayes.

Sorry if this is volunteering you for more work. I had to upgrade my parents PC from Win95 recently as it was getting to be only a matter of time before it was compromised

As I say, I hope this helps somewhat.
Cheers,
Nick.

angrynorth

A truer word was never spoken

I second the FireFox installation. It may take a bit of getting used to for those of you who have only used IE, but if you want to cut down on the crap that the internet can bring, you need to switch to something like FireFox.

Not only that, FireFox is actually compliant with more web standards so you will start to see more sites as they were intended to be seen.


Failing that, and if you want a really easy life, get a Mac (sorry couldn't resist )

------

mj the citizens advice bureau sounds like a good bet, unless you actually know someone in SA

imlach

I use Safari on the Mac. Far better browser than IE, and quicker.

There's still a few non-compliant websites out there that seem to require IE, which is sometimes intersting (especially when it's a blue chip company website - how embarassing for them!).

Pop-up blocker by default on Safari. Works too!

chiark

AN, it does sound the easier option... A second hand imac would do, wouldn't it?

mj

Chiark - the work has already been done, by the time the dialler damage was done, the install of ME was so full of sh1te I just wiped it with W2k, and put on NAV, and the usual spyware stuff + popupstopper. Also a week later, they switched over to NTL broadband and disconnected the modem, so up to now they have been ok. Half the problem was that they bought the PC secondhand with no fresh install - most of the crap was probably already there.

I suppose the chances are any redress are non existent - you would have to employ your own legal people, and for £250 its not worth it. It's seems crazy that the ICSTIS can impose fines and conditions on the offending company, yet they clearly state that they will not chase up claims on your behalf.

What chance has some poor woman like my neighbour, that knows naff all about computers & scams etc have against some shark in Switzerland?

Sureley all the ICSTIS needs is a copy of the phone bill detailing the premium rate number - the ICSTIS have just fined the offender 100K - why not pay peoples monies back out of this, Fine the barstewards more if neccessary. I can't knock them, they have put these arseholes out of business for 2 years, it seems a shame they can't handle the claims.

angrynorth

Yup or an eMac, they are dirt cheap and are usually pretty good spec. Just not as pretty as the iMac.

chiark

Just to resurrect this from the dead (not to argue about technology, promise!)

Ofcom is to crack down on premium-rate phone thieves who rip off punters by conning them into racking up costly phone calls. The communications regulator's decision to beef up protection for consumers follows a surge in complaints from punters who've been tricked into connecting to dodgy premium-rate services.

See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08...m_rate_icstis/ for more information.

quick extract
Said Ofcom in a statement: "It is apparent to Ofcom, the DTI and ICSTIS that the internet dialler problem is the latest in a series of examples of unethical behaviour which have damaged consumer confidence in the premium rate industry. In order to strengthen consumer protection in the future, a more wide-ranging assessment of the regulation of premium rate services is therefore required."

It went on: "Where potentially criminal or unethical activity occurs, there will often be several companies or groups of individuals involved, some of whose roles will be unwitting. Applying sanctions against instigators can be difficult in practice. If there is a cross-border dimension, the situation is further complicated by overlapping responsibilities between different types of regulator across the EU and beyond.

"Ofcom will therefore seek to explore which additional measures may be appropriate to give consumers a greater degree of protection from misleading, fraudulent or inappropriate activity involving premium rate services."

mj

Cheers mate, I'll print the article and pass it on. I would have thought these things take eons to actually happen, so the chance of any payback without outside legal help is still pretty slim, though its probably worth her keeping all the correspondence and phone bills on the off chance that in 12 months when these powers are endorsed she can get something back, you never know ,£250 is £250.

angrynorth

That's good news then. About time they started to threaten these digital muggers properly.

So. chiark. About these PC's wh...

Only kidding.

SomeDude

I could follow suit and just say "yeah, all those developers will be glad to adopt Macs and change to ... " erm... what development platform ?

That IMHO is the biggest flaw. Try developing a serious in-house application on the Mac.

Don't get me wrong, I have been a Mac supporter since 1985, and am seriously impressed with OSX, but as a developer... what a ****ty platform

(sorry, OT again)

angrynorth

not going to veer off topic again so I will just post

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/xcode/

and see GaryK for more.

mj

angry - veer off at will mate , I think my original question has been answered - ie, no feckin chance

SomeDude

Cheers for the link, already looked at the page, will do some more digging (although Spy Sweeper alerted me for potential spyware LOL ) Will start a heated debate in Computer Related tomorrow.

mj, sorry about the OT stuff, the only thing I know that Switserland is a country with pretty strict rules and laws are taken *very* seriously there. But yeah, you would need a lawyer to get you through the red tape, and that will cost more etc...