moses

i wont bother answering that coz i know were it will go
why dont u say sorry for hitler to the jews and all the blacks for the whites and say sorry for what your fella christian bush and tony did , ub sounds good to me and what they done to stephen lawrence pls stand up and be counted

unclebuck

Why say you won't bother answering, and then answer?

As for the content, what can I say? A big fat LOL springs to mind.

UB

(BTW - it's good to get some *fire* back into the debate)

moses

yeah the fire has been out of me for a few months but still sparks sometimes


yes what i said was true, i didnt do russia or nepal if i have to apologise why certain scum did evil so u should too for what the people of your faith and colour have done too.


as i said before, who runs the world nowadays its the christians and their policies what are f***ing around everything in the world not us , look at mark thatcher,whiteman cant stop stirring trouble in african countries for OIL OIL OIl so they can kill little black silly people and take over their oil.


i hope u understand where im getting at

sick people who took over the russian school, should be slaughtered for sure, and think how many of these chechens have lost little children as well, even putin admitted what the bad soldiers have been up to, their was a time the usa and britain used to critisize russia but when they wanted to go in the good books with putin over afghanistan and iraq, they turned a blind eye didnt they.

and also i hate the russians what their doing in chechnya but overall, i luv the russian people alot of them are good and always been good to muslim countries except afghanistan, thats a different story , both were at fault the traitors in afghanistan who let them in, its their fault too, but overall, russia has been good to the arabic countries if u look back.


and france, well i luv them always have, napoleon is my hero and always been a friend to muslims, yes i hate them banning religious symbols but its wrong to hijack those innocents, its not even their fault.

like they said its oppurtunism

unclebuck

Good. I value your input. The thing is, I can't be an apologist for all the wrongs done to ethnic peoples over the centuries. What difference could it make?.

However, I do think that Muslims could make a difference to the current state of affairs by being more vocal in their opposition to the dreadful stuff going on at the moment. That's it......

UB

steve<G>man

Who is this fruit cake?? You make Sun readers look intelligent
GSM try not to be so much of a snob now go get your daily telegraph and stick it up your fat ***

Aaquil

Yep that guy is certainly a sick fruit cake...let's just nuke everyone that will solve the problem...yeah right if you have nothing sensible to right don't bother.

ben44

Its a terrible thing to do. Kidnapping kids is not on..... But nor is stopping medical aid that should be going to children in Iraq because a certain country (yanks live there) wants to have all the oil. Politicians are greedy gits who do what suits them best. As soon as everyone wakes up and realises this, the better. And with regards to us living in a free country??????? You must be sh!ting me

dsmith

Religion removes the capacity for rational thought.

I think I've mentioned it before......

Deano

Aaquil

It is the same attitude with everything the 'civilised western world' and all its people are humans and everyone evertwhere else are sub humans. The slaughtering in Rwanda thousands of Africans slain women and children, thousands upon thousands of people raped, tortured and killed in Bosnia, Chechnya and Kosovo to name but a few.

Of course thousands of people Non-Muslims and Muslims killed in the twin towers, thousands of Jews were slaughtered by ***** in WW2, Innocent women and children killed in Israel etc. etc. but terrorism is terrorism state funded or not. Open your eyes and do not be fooled by the Media.

Evil extremist scum terrorists Muslims who are a minority yes a minority and only people who truly understand Islam hate them as they should be hated for the evil, injustice and harm they cause. Also, the greed and evilness of the states that invade and kill and destroy peoples lives as well (Be they Muslim or Non-Muslim). When Timothy Mcveigh blew carried out the Oklahoma bombing you know what picture the had in a British newpaper...it was a picture of a dead baby with the caption "In the name of Islaam"!!! Now when that happened did the American Christians get out on the street and demonstrated against Christian extremism? Do the people in Northern Ireland get out and demonstrate when bombing are carried out by the IRA they support, condeming it?!!! Do the Spanish supporters of ETA get out and demonstrate against the evil, killing when ETA bomb and kill people?!!! Did the supporters of the tribe in Rwanda that carried out all the murdering go out and demonstrate against that?!!! What about the treatment of Iraqi inmates in the prison in Iraq who were just criminals not terrorists did the Americans come out on the streets and demonstrate against the evil that those American soldiers had done to all those Iraqi inmates?!!!

The Twin towers bombing was an evil, awful, distgusting act which is totally intolerable. However, two minutes silence for 4000 people, human beings whose lives were sacred (no doubt) but what about 7000 odd Muslims who were slaughered by Serbs (Orthodox Christians) when their so called 'Safe Haven' was overrun. Where was their two minutes silence? What about the thousands of Christians killed in Rwanda in and around that church by their rival tribe? Where was the two minutes silence for them?

Please do not have double standards, please be just across the board with everyone...terrorism is everywhere everyone Muslim and Non Muslim should condenm it totally and utterly. Life is life, everyones life is sacred. One life does not hold more value over another.

What has happened in Russia is awful but let me tell you this you can only push a people so far...the Chechnyans have been persecuted by the Russians in a similar way to which the Jews were by the **** and they still are. They have become desperate people. There was even a documentary about the history about a week or so ago on the Television and before you jump I condemn what they are doing total it is evil and wrong but it is not fair to just label one side as terrorist, both sides are as evil as one another in this affair.

dsmith

Jason

Leslie

People are people the world over. All nations and denominations have their fair share of obsessive maniacs who will do anything to achieve their own selfish ends. The destruction of the twin towers was nothing to do with Iraq and it was illegal and wrong to attack that country and to kill so many innocent civilians, and destroy that country's infrastructure. Under those circumstances it is only to be expected that a faction will arise which is prepared to carry out the atrocities that we hear about in horror. Any unpopular occupying force can expect to have to cope with major attacks from local people and also others who use it as an excuse to join in.

Even the leader of the US has admitted now that the post war situation has been badly handled and was not foreseen either because they could not wait to attack.

No one can excuse the awful killings that have been carried out by the militant organisations, but we have to accept that it is a fact of life that this will happen as has always happened in the past.

Of course we are seriously threatened by terrorism now, but much more so since we joined in the war on Iraq.

There is no place for racism or anti religious denomination feelings here, we are dealing with obsessive individual leaders with their own ambitions in life who will use whatever situation is available to attack our way of life. Their hate of the USA is at the root of it all, and we are heavily associated because of our part in the war.

Les

gsm1

Sorry, I know shouldn't criticise people who make Osama bin Laden look moderate.
Daily Telegraph? No mate, I don't read the Telegraph and it's The Sun you're supposed to wipe your **** with, you might be getting things confused.
And my *** (****?) is very skinny. In fact I need to get some of those protein shakes and pad it out a bit.
You related to mart360, btw?

ajm

I would have had you down as more of a Mirror reader to be honest!

Brendan Hughes

Very nice post by Aaquil - The Christians' massacre of Moslems at Srebrenica was in the front of my mind also, at the 2 minute silence, though I didn't think of it in religious terms.

BTW, the head of Union Carbide sits happily in retirement in America and is not extradited for the possible manslaughter of up to 40 000 Indians at Bhopal. You don't see many Americans protesting about that injustice, do you?

As UB so accurately pointed out in another thread, perhaps it's to do with the colour of their skin?

Leslie

I shall have to be careful what I say here in case I get accused of being influenced by racist ideals as on another thread by the man who was not big enough to apologise when I demonstrated that he was quite wrong.

None of all this terrorist activity is advocated by the religious teachings apparently followed by the extremists who are taking part in all these atrocities. As has been said by several on this thread, they are being lead by evil people who prey on young people who have been brought up in that religion and are easily influenced to carry out their dreadful actions. Maybe there is some fear associated with that as well.

This is just not the fault of the religion involved.

Those who shout about how can a religion or a God allow this to happen are not being fair minded. In many cases it may be an easy way to blame religion generally because they personally don't wish to follow a religion or to believe in a God. It is everyone's right to believe in religion or not, but unfair to heap the world's troubles on the shoulders of the believers or their religion's teachings.

I admired the actions of the French Muslims who went out to try to influence the captors of the French journalists and agree that it is a pity that there is not more reaction against the terrorists by the rest of the Muslim community. I cannot think why this is so. Maybe that will change too. There is no justification however to "tar them all with the same brush"

I personally think it is wrong to forbid people to wear the clothes that their religious beliefs require. It is a contentious act and generates a lot of bad feeling as the French have found out. I remember all the fuss about Sikh's not wishing to wear crash hats instead of turbans. Very stupid attitude for the authorities to take at the time. By the way, don't say I am being PC, that is far from the truth, just trying to be fair.

I also think that it was very wrong to drop those weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The number of innocent civilians that were killed was dreadful as were the further effects which are still to be seen even today. The weapons could easily have been demostrated to the Japanese without all the slaughter. That is something that will always be to the shame of the USA. yes I know I used to be associated with carrying a "bucket of sunshine" about ready to throw at the Eastern Bloc, but only if they started it by doing it first! My job then was to help stop it ever happening.

We are living in ever more dangerous times, but so much of that has been brought upon us by the actions of other megalomaniacs, we have to fight to defend ourselves but the effort has to be directed at the root of the problem, not necessarily at those who follow that religion.

I think one of the really well balanced posts so far in this thread was by DBW, amongst some others.

Les

Pbr

I'm thinking Guardian....

tiggers

Les,

Much of your post is what I have been trying to put across, but I must say you have put far more succinctly than I?

As for being influenced by racist ideals if it's the thread I'm thinking about then irony is well and truly alive on Scoobynet

Regards,

tiggers.

unclebuck

As is sycophancy, clearly.

jimbob2

Another classic PR blunder for the Jihad. What a bad week they've had - killing a load of nepalese people in Iraq, abducting jounalists (!) from a country that openly critises Israel and its activities in the West Bank/Gaza, now shooting children.

It could be construed that ultimately the Jihad movement will implode as more moderate muslims take stock of what is happening. This can't happen soon enough in my opinion.

Part of me wants to say "keep the ****-ups coming" - Jihad will be out of business soon, and at the same time, we can get rid of public stonings, legal rape within marriage (sponsored by the Koran of course)

What concerns me is the attitudde of people in this country. It just cracks me up to see the "well you started it" or " its all about oil" routines - poor misguided fools. But keep it up, you are all helping to discredit the legitimacy of the so called Jihad.

jimbob2

Latest news is that half of the Chechyen fighters were in fact not from Chechnya - they were from various other Arab countries. This would appear to be an attack on children based on religious ideals, rather than any freedom for chechnya operation.

Some of the "freedom fighters" escaped, taking children with them to use a human shields/bargaining chips.

So they don't get to be martrys then seeing as they scarpered with small children. No meeting with Allah then in my understanding (limited) of Islam.

What sort of religion allows this. The rest of the muslim world knows who these people are, and can stop them, but won't.

Do they want an out and out war?

unclebuck

Yes. This appears to be not about Chechnya's independence but about a Muslim war on infidels. But, I still don't see any Muslim groups condemning these atrocities.

gsm1

Says who? Maybe you haven't been listening too well but Muslim countries have had to deal with these extremists for far longer than the West has.

And latest reports actually say the hostage takers were from other parts of Russia.

gsm1

Unclebuck, you can't tell the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim!

DocJock

Well said B2Z.

Petem95

Thats right gsm1, theyre from Chechnya - the Islamic bit, and 10 of those killed were from Arab countries.

moses

yeah majority where chechen , i read in the papers today before chechens war was a struggle against atrocity and occupation and then the al qaeda got involved and took them to the extreme, but they werent extreme before but believed in fighting the russians and military but everything changed when al qaida or the extreme arabs got involved and changed their ideology and not just that suiciding bombing was never ever in chechen islamic culture it only started when the arabs got involved.


bravo people who hijack a school with children in them, their fecking cowards and deserve to go to hell, i saw the pics in the papers today , yesterday i was off didnt see nothing till i saw this thread, could have been my baby girl, sick and cowardly thing to do, doing this to the lil ones

Leslie

I believe the Chechens have been repressed by the Russians for centuries and they are fighting for their independence. Al Quaeda have of course stepped in to take advantage of the situation, as in Iraq of course.

Much of modern terrorism has its roots in past shameful behaviour by what are far more tolerant countries in these times. Such suppression and exploitation always seems to lead to terrorism later.

The treatment of those children is truly awful and totally inexcusable of course.

Les

AsifScoob

There is some utter rubbish being posted on this and similar threads.

How silly of me? I forgot that I had a complete list of names and addresses of every 'Islamic' terrorist in Europe on my desk (like EVERY Muslim has)...now if only I could find an envelope and a stamp...does anyone have MI5's address?...ahhh perhaps tomorrow...can't be bothered right now, the suns out.

Folowing the logic of some people on here, we should have exterminated all Germans after WWI, as they are clearly trouble makers, definately should have done so after WWII, all the Japanese and Italians too etc, throw in the Russians (wouldn't have todays problem of course!), Koreans, Vietnamese, Iranians, Iraqi's, any citizen of any country with a left wing Govt. now Muslims of course etc etc. See a familliar pattern?

Anyway, as usual there is the old bigotry and prejudice coming out, like it does at every opportunity, and why let silly little things like facts get in the way?

Anyone committing suicide is NOT a Muslim, anyone killing innocents is NOT a Muslim. These acts are as anti islamic as eating pork and drinking alcohol. These people may think that they are good Muslims, they may even firmly believe that they are, but does not mean that is the case. And I am certainly not going to try to defend their 'religious' acts, because they weren't.

What happened is absolutely horrendous, what a nightmare? I for one firmly believed that it was going to end that way, how else could it have ended?

So what now? Send more troops into Chechnya? Kill more people? Even Sky News admitted that this was more about revenge than religion. Putin has been carrying out a very secret war (journalists not allowed) for the last five years, which has resulted in wide spread murder, rape, repression, and injustice.

If the Russians are now going to step this up, in response, what will the Chechens do next, in their response?

You have to ask yourself - what would YOU have to go through, to experience, to want to make you go out and murder other peoples children? The Chechens were not born into hostage taking and murder, as neither are Muslims.

Traditionally Islam was always known as a religion about Peace and Love, I think back to when I was a youngster, but over the last few decades it has become increasingly politicised, firstly in the eyes of the media and secondly it sees itself as increasingly under attack, which is probably why Al-Quaeda is probably welcomed. If the West sees injustice, it should step in BEFORE the likes of Al Quaeda get there, might explain why the US are so interested in Sudan, all of a sudden.

As far as I am concerned this is a political matter that needs to be resolved politically, see NI as an example, still not resolved fully but the killing has almost completely stopped. Killing people in revenge does not work, for ANYONE. Look at the Israeli's and Palestinians?

Governments need to be brave and seek a political solution to all of this.

Asif

gsm1

Good post, Asif.

What's even more deranged is the number of posters here horrified at what has happened in Russia and Iraq but are quite happy to 'nuke/waste/bomb' millions of men, women and children themselves. You call others sick and inhuman, go take a look in the mirror.