sti monster

with that kind of money its def got to be the EVO, but pound for pound i'd say a pulsar gtir, all that power and grip for under 5 grand.

Mk2_heaven

the audi 4x4 estates(rs4????) they use for gt pace car duties are awesome in the wet, *remembers* Lister pit to car radio "can you tell the pace car to slow down i cant keep up" lol

Mick

iTrader: (1)

Olly are they that bad? Even the S has a 0-60 quoted as 7.2 sec top speed 150, cf Citroen Berlingo HDi at 13.4 sec and 99 mph top! - Is it due to worrying about bumping the Cayenne? or have your parents put a limiter on it with a secret override somewhere?

Cayenne Turbo is quoted at 450 bhp, 5.6 sec and 165 mph tops... That must be a contender surely? - apart from all the fuel stops

Mick

Dracoro

I've been taken round brands gp in a cayenne turbo. One fast car, completely defies it's size.

Diablo

A - someone elses

Or more specifically, someone elses that you happen to be driving.

What the mags don't take into account is that having shelled out £xxxx thousands for your nice 996 Turbo, there is not even the remotest chance you will drive it anything like as fast down that welsh B road, because its you, and not your corporate insurance/porsche GB that will have to pay the price when it all goes wrong.

The fastest car a to b in the real world, is one that goes quite quickly, handles well and doesn't really matter if you write it off. Something like that will destroy your individual in his Evaru996turbonutterlambopolishedweeklyprideandjoyw ithoutadingorscratchposemoreimpotant mobile who will go so hard and then cack himself if the going gets too hard.

automodellistagt

iposeandwashandpolishmystieveryweek and i drive it does get thrashed every so often

the chosen one

guess chavs will be arguing there point for the good old saxo's eh?

Diablo

LOL never thought about that

Olly

LOL It's not an outright performance thing. The Cayenne is like trying to drive a bungalow fast: its so BIG and heavy. The steering, brakes and ride are way over-sensitive and twitchy, the tiptronic is slow, and the feel and feedback is zero. It doesn't fit down the lanes, on B roads you are wary of the girth and drive accordingly, and the sheer size and unhelpful steering make it difficult to place.

Get the Bling rolling, and down the lanes and B roads you can fly: it actually drives a bit like a slow, soft 205 GTi. You have more road to play with, and can keep the power hard on knowing you will fit if something is coming. Handling is sweet and typically French (ie some playful lift-off oversteer), you can explore the limit easily. It inspires confidence, you are faster as a result. In Olly's "Real World" (which involves mainly driving on these type of roads) it is faster.

Thoughts of ball-ing Mummy's £58k Cayenne into snot tends to slow you a little as well.

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Simon
What do you think of the understeer v oversteer thing.
I have been trained in fast road driving, defensive, offensive and tac driving.
This is where I am comfortable, I have very limited track experince. So am not a good track driver
So for the road
My feelings are that for the road the key is how progressive is the grip is lost.
All this is broad generalisations I know
Many cars having large amounts of grip but letting go in an unprogressive way
Many cars having low levels of grip letting go in a progessive way.
Which is why I enjoy scoobs as they have huge amounts of grip but if driven correctly let go very progessively all be it at fairly high speeds in an understeery kind of way

So given that the progresive loss of grip is the key

Oversteer v Understeeer for the road
As you point out Oversteer does give you more more options and is certainly more involving therefore can see the appeal for the track. ('I drive a powerful RWD car, I can handle it, Ive got hairs on my chest etc - fair enough actually)

Back to real world of a wet drab A road Tuesday at 10.00 hours in Berkshire.

However on the road making swift but safe progess from A to B I don't want to play about I want to get there f**king quicky but safely. I have always felt that predictable understeer is better. You kind of need less space to sort it out. What do you think?

People knock understeer but can you see where I am coming from.
Subaru
Huge amount of grip - normally associated with RWD
Progressive loss of grip - normally associated with low powered stuff
When it losses grip - Understeer
PERFECT

Sorry about the ramblings - but always interested to find different points of view from experienced people. Please feel free to disagee

___________________________

I also feel drivers aids also get in the way - active yaw control - ABS are no gos for me.

In a nutshell Simon felt that the above made complete sense - but he personaly felt that oversteer gave one more options on the limit of grip.

How progressive the grip is lost is the key (oversteer or understeer perhaps a bit irrespective) and for me that makes a well set up Scoob the quickest thing A to B.

Long rambling answer I know
Best wishes
Steve

Jap2Scrap

jeremy

Steve, Well thought out post. I'm with you on this one. I really wish somebody would put these ideas to the test- as I wrote about in my eariler post.

"In a nutshell Simon felt that the above made complete sense - but he personaly felt that oversteer gave one more options on the limit of grip."

I'm not sure if Simon's right on that one, unless you do some very clever car control that can have you on limit shifting between under and oversteer on cue and within the limited road space available, not likely?? Left-foot braking maybe? It would seem that in a given corner an Impreza or any similarly able car can be set up to either have final over or understeer not both.