unclebuck

Both, because, as I see it one leads directly to the other.

UB

paulr

I thought the issue was animal welfare?

gareth123

I don't give a ****.

I've had three businesses collapse on me, the first sold slave chains, the second asbestos roof tiles, and the third lead additives for petrol. Where's my sympathy?

Jye

Why dont we just kill all the foxes just like we killed all the wolves and bears? Then we can move on to any other 'vermin' that gives us 'problems', like ourselves for instance.

unclebuck

So did I, apparently not though. This is what it's really about....



The class struggle.

UB

ajm

Firstly, as hunting has become rarer, shooting has become more prevalent, there has been no sudden overnight change. Shooting is an effective method of controlling foxes and one that gives no incentive to maintain any sort of fox levels at all. To turn off hunting over night in favour of only shooting and expect there not to be a significant effect on numbers of foxes, and consequently prey and so on down the food chain is folly.

You are being flippant here, but I'll humour you... hunting is and always has been an effective way to keep fox numbers to a naturally balanced level, i.e. enough such that prey species stay stable and livestock predation is at an acceptable level.

gareth123

Do you mean Socttish people? Where do I sign up? Tally ho!

Jye

ajm, is that the same prey species we tried to wipe out with myxomatosis?

gsm1

I don't get it. How does chasing the fox and killing it make any difference from just shooting it and scrapping the chase?

Jye

Never heard of that species, have you shot any yet?

Jye

I think this is going to be one of 'those' threads

paulr

How about a few facts.

*The fox is a pest*
*Life and death is a fact in the animal kingdom*
*Fox hunting is NOT cruel*
*Tony Blair is the best Prime Minister in our lifetime*

ajm

It seemed a humane thing to do when activists relelased hundreds of mink from a mink farm. The result for the local wildlife was devastating and the mink had to be trapped or shot.


So your way of repaying the cruel old world is to support actions that will make others suffer in the same way. Bitter, as I thought.

Jye

Amen paul

unclebuck

I think the point is that hunting generally involves some natural selection. The weak, old or sick foxes are the ones culled, whereas shooting is indiscriminate an over time will weaken the fox poulation. Might be wrong though.

UB

gareth123

You give permits to shoot foxes. An expert makes a call as to what is the 'correct' number of foxes for the environment and issues permits accordingly. Same as they do here with deer.

Again, I no problem with foxes being killed. I have a problem with the method.

ajm

Because people want to maintain levels of foxes for the hunts, the tradition, the way of life etc. They like doing it. If that goes what reason will people have to maintain any foxes at all?

Jye

ajm would shoot everything but a fish I guess.

Crossbows over ajm's pond anyone

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Because Foxes are Protected whilst on 'Farmers land' because their agreement with the Hunt. Now the Farmer sees they are no longer needed, so will shoot them all.

Work it out

30 toffs 30 hounds yahhoooing it arround = 0-2 Foxes
3 farmers 2 Gun's and 2 spaniels around = 5-30 Foxes

Most City accountants will be able to work out the percentage difference

Your absoulutely correct the Fox is a preditor and require and that's my piont .............but in Farmers eyes only while fox Hunting exists.............after that, they just become vermin and soon extinct.

Jye

When to we start killing stoats and weasels, eh? And a damn hedgehog disturbed my sleep the other night, grubbing about my nice lawn for worms, nasty flea ridden critters, wheres the bloody hounds now I ask??????

Jye

253-to-0, the beauty of democracy

gareth123

I know. It was a moronic thing to do. I'm not going to excuse morons like that and I hope you don't excuse morons who dog fight or badger bait. Let's keep out of the moron ends of the spectrum.

Humour sunshine, humour.

Jye

Fox corner

Will be deemed tortuous in a court of law, the beauty of our legal system

gsm1

So all other wildlife is maintained because people like to hunt it? I think the pro-hunt argument is scraping the barrel.

ajm

Here it comes, you advocate replacing a proven self governing system with beaurocracy? Also, if you are going license foxes you will also have to do prey species such as rabbits because the two species are interdependant.

By the way, deer hunting is not licensed by numbers, if you have a firearm, a game licence (not needed on private land) and you have land on which you have permission to shoot then you can hunt deer.

ajm

The fact that I am having to explain this in so much detail only serves to prove my point - you people know nothing about the ecology of the countryside, and yet your opinions are affecting the way important decisions are being made.

No, of course not ALL wildlife is maintained by hunting. Hunting is a small but significant part of maintaining population levels, however in the case of the fox it is more significant because we, human beings, are the only predators it has.

Jye

And that is NOT beaurocracy?? Why do I need a licence? Why do I need permission? Barrel scrape bottom deffo..............

Jye

I wonder why......

wheeler_dealer

There will be a lot of ways around this anyway.
But I do think the Government should also ban the killing of animals by slashing the throat alive and draining the blood like they do for some religion. Can't think what that it is. Then all of the ******* would have to leave the European dumping ground and go to france or some where else !!

What about shooting the fox with a gun then letting the hounds eat it ?!?? Does that count because legally you haven't killed it with the hounds you have killed it with the gun!!

How will they police it ?? What is stopping the hunt just saying they are going for a ride and taking the dogs for a walk ?!?

Is a police man on horse back going to be with them to make sure they don't go after a fox ?
Just imaging how many permits the PIG will have to have to go across all the farmers fields. It will be hilarious !!!!

ajm

I didn't say I agree with the licencing, and besides, a game licence has nothing to do with controlling numbers of deer or shooters, it is like a TV licence, merely a revenue earner. You pop into the post office, pay and off you go.