Another hostage in Iraq.....
#31
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It's not only American troops that are a problem, read this Times article about the private security firms hiring any old convict and muscle head from the West to play out their Rambo fantasies in Iraq.
I feel for the hostages, especially their families. No one deserves this but I do have more sympathy for workers from poor countries and aid workers on little money.
Moses, according to the US (and their puppets) all these hostage takers are led by Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi. This guy must really get around. It was also according to the US, much earlier on in the invasion, that it was only foreign fighters attacking coalition troops while Iraqis were showering them with flowers. Not much the US says turns out to be true.
Regardless, the idea that he is going to use these two women to aid a nuclear plot is certainly far fetched. You haven't been smoking any puff tonight, have ya?
I feel for the hostages, especially their families. No one deserves this but I do have more sympathy for workers from poor countries and aid workers on little money.
Moses, according to the US (and their puppets) all these hostage takers are led by Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi. This guy must really get around. It was also according to the US, much earlier on in the invasion, that it was only foreign fighters attacking coalition troops while Iraqis were showering them with flowers. Not much the US says turns out to be true.
Regardless, the idea that he is going to use these two women to aid a nuclear plot is certainly far fetched. You haven't been smoking any puff tonight, have ya?
#32
Moses
has it occured to you that people are pissed off with the events that happening in iraq and wish to see some action taken.
yes i thouroughly agree that the hostage taking is abhorrent and somthing should be done.
the point of my post was to highlight
a) why dont we start giving as good as we get.
b) the reason we dont, is due to the political pc namby pamby approach we adopt.
as i said prehaps its time to stand up and show them that we have had enough...
just to make thing clear...
my stance is this
i disagree with the situatuion in iraq, i think the hostage taking is bang out of order, and i think we ought to kick **** and do somthing about it.
its my viewpoint, and if poeple dont like it.. tough
i dont see you having a pop at pslewis, for his comments, so please leave me to have mine
mart
has it occured to you that people are pissed off with the events that happening in iraq and wish to see some action taken.
yes i thouroughly agree that the hostage taking is abhorrent and somthing should be done.
the point of my post was to highlight
a) why dont we start giving as good as we get.
b) the reason we dont, is due to the political pc namby pamby approach we adopt.
as i said prehaps its time to stand up and show them that we have had enough...
just to make thing clear...
my stance is this
i disagree with the situatuion in iraq, i think the hostage taking is bang out of order, and i think we ought to kick **** and do somthing about it.
its my viewpoint, and if poeple dont like it.. tough
i dont see you having a pop at pslewis, for his comments, so please leave me to have mine
mart
#33
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lol @ gsm haha no smoking baccie here my friend haha
but the thing is we dont know how much al qaida already knows about nuclear weapons, yes its far fetched but hey, they know alot of old russian scientists, retired ones supposedly
but these 2 ladies are very dangerous mate, no way they should be let out, can u imagine a chemical bomb in our own back yard, no way man, shouldnt even be given a chance.
and mart usa already gives the iraqis alot, iraqis say their giving it back mate, aint that true
but the thing is we dont know how much al qaida already knows about nuclear weapons, yes its far fetched but hey, they know alot of old russian scientists, retired ones supposedly
but these 2 ladies are very dangerous mate, no way they should be let out, can u imagine a chemical bomb in our own back yard, no way man, shouldnt even be given a chance.
and mart usa already gives the iraqis alot, iraqis say their giving it back mate, aint that true
#34
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In essence I agree with what Mart said. Unless we change tactics against these lunatics, how can we possibly hope to 'win' against them? How can you fight a 'war' against these animals who have no respect for any form of life, theirs or anyone elses?
IMHO, just as sickening are these legal ****** who are representing Iraqi people in their claims against British soldiers. I just hope that they understand the gravity of their actions.
IMHO, just as sickening are these legal ****** who are representing Iraqi people in their claims against British soldiers. I just hope that they understand the gravity of their actions.
#35
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Originally Posted by moses
why dont u go out their, u think your so tough, prove your worth sunshine
u are the one with the problem, acting all tough on the forum, u will pee in your pants if u just step in iraq
u are the one with the problem, acting all tough on the forum, u will pee in your pants if u just step in iraq
#36
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but these 2 ladies are very dangerous mate, no way they should be let out, can u imagine a chemical bomb in our own back yard, no way man, shouldnt even be given a chance.
The only people that have gone on about Al-Qaeda using chemical or biological weapons is Tony 'I talk sh*t' Blair and his mate Bush. The time Anthrax was sent in the mail in America it led back to a US government scientist who had also written a book about terrorists using biological and chemical weapons. These are the only people who have talked about it. Al-Qaeda have only ever used planes and explosives. Don't let the bullsh*tters mess your mind bruv!
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suppose your right gsm
and also bush did glamourise and gave them the silly names like miss anthrax, its so silly aint it and miss germ for the other one
taff dont those terrorists say same about the western forces that their animals and bomb and kill people merciless, just last week they killed 47 civilians didnt they
and also bush did glamourise and gave them the silly names like miss anthrax, its so silly aint it and miss germ for the other one
taff dont those terrorists say same about the western forces that their animals and bomb and kill people merciless, just last week they killed 47 civilians didnt they
#38
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Originally Posted by moses
taff dont those terrorists say same about the western forces that their animals and bomb and kill people merciless, just last week they killed 47 civilians didnt they
How can you fight a 'war' against these animals who have no respect for any form of life, theirs or anyone elses?
#39
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well said gsm, makes me sick when i read the posts they put up, they attack a country that did f*** all to us and we go and bomb them to hell and of course were gonna help fill their terrorist ranks for our greed and imperialism.
lots of these terrorists werent terrorists one time, they became terrorists afterwards coz they know the enemy wants to take over and control the land and i hear in the papers all the time, herald, independent and mirror, express and guardian etc that israeli army are teaching the marines about guerilla warfare and basically how to bomb civilians etc and bulldoze homes
lots of these terrorists werent terrorists one time, they became terrorists afterwards coz they know the enemy wants to take over and control the land and i hear in the papers all the time, herald, independent and mirror, express and guardian etc that israeli army are teaching the marines about guerilla warfare and basically how to bomb civilians etc and bulldoze homes
#40
Saw that video today, and I just can’t believe that one human can do that to another.
I say pull every last western man and woman out of the Middle East, let the animals kill each other. They don’t want us there they never have, they don’t want western style democracies, they don’t want help from outside so just leave them to it.
Just keep a firm eye on them and the minute they become a threat to the outside world fookin wipe them out every last man, woman and child. **** them!! Only an animal can put something to death in such a horrific and inhuman manner so treat them like animals, cull them.
As you can tell that video has had a profound affect on me. Yesterday I probably wouldn’t have wrote anything so strongly worded, but now I firmly believe we shouldn’t be there, we’re just stirring up a hornets nest that’s just waiting to spew out thousands evil butchers hell bent on murdering anyone loosely associated with anything western.
I say pull every last western man and woman out of the Middle East, let the animals kill each other. They don’t want us there they never have, they don’t want western style democracies, they don’t want help from outside so just leave them to it.
Just keep a firm eye on them and the minute they become a threat to the outside world fookin wipe them out every last man, woman and child. **** them!! Only an animal can put something to death in such a horrific and inhuman manner so treat them like animals, cull them.
As you can tell that video has had a profound affect on me. Yesterday I probably wouldn’t have wrote anything so strongly worded, but now I firmly believe we shouldn’t be there, we’re just stirring up a hornets nest that’s just waiting to spew out thousands evil butchers hell bent on murdering anyone loosely associated with anything western.
#41
A British Soldier goes where the goverment the public voted in tells him to go, He/she can not say I do not believe in this cause im not going, The Armed forces is not a democracy.
You can not comment about the behaviour of the British soldiers out there, im sure on the whole they are doing a valuable and professional job, for not too great pay. How do you know how you will react to a hidden enemy taking pot shots at you every day. Until you are out there living in the sh*t do comment on the behaviour of troops because you do not know how you, yourself would behave.
You can not comment about the behaviour of the British soldiers out there, im sure on the whole they are doing a valuable and professional job, for not too great pay. How do you know how you will react to a hidden enemy taking pot shots at you every day. Until you are out there living in the sh*t do comment on the behaviour of troops because you do not know how you, yourself would behave.
#42
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Time to end Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi's reign of terror. If they are so sure he is holed up in Fallujah and he is responsible for all the beheadings then time to do something about it. They tried taking Fallujah and failed miserably. As far as I understand Fallujah is nothing more than a pile of rubble holding a vast number of militants/extremists.
One simple solution, they blow the living **** out of the place from the air and flatten it. He is then finished and so are many of his supporters and one of the last pockets of resistance will be finished. Can be done with cruise missiles if they want precision or just in my opinion a far better option would be to carpet bomb it with B52's and level it to the ground.
Then there would be no more Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi!
One simple solution, they blow the living **** out of the place from the air and flatten it. He is then finished and so are many of his supporters and one of the last pockets of resistance will be finished. Can be done with cruise missiles if they want precision or just in my opinion a far better option would be to carpet bomb it with B52's and level it to the ground.
Then there would be no more Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi!
#43
Originally Posted by **************
One simple solution, they blow the living **** out of the place from the air and flatten it.
I blame the media partly, they print headlines like "another hostage killed" which totally sanitises and understates what's happening. They should show the uncut videos to let people know what a living human being having their head sawn off with a 10 inch carving knife actually looks and sounds like.
I've seen most of the recently released videos and am convinced that 99.9% of people (and i include the normal decent Iraqis here) would find them so horrible and shocking that the terrorists would pretty much lose all their support overnight.
#44
Originally Posted by gsm1
Don't bother, mate. This is a guy who goes into a country that never attacked him, thinks its okay for Brit troops to abuse Iraqis and then when some of them get pissed off and fight back he calls them 'terrorists' and 'animals'.
I think they have dealt with chemical and biological weapons, not nuclear.
Last edited by Pbr; 22 September 2004 at 09:38 AM. Reason: Typo.
#45
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I can't believe people still come out with this 'wipe them all out' or 'how can a human do this to another' ****!
Firstly, you cannot wipe them all out. Islamic fundamentalism relies heavily on martyrdom, and uses Jihad to persuade those likely to be sympathetic to their cause to join.
The more you kill, the more you create. It's a downward spiral that just results in more death and suffering, for both sides.
In the end, there has to be a dialogue. We did not wipe out the IRA, we came to the negotiating table with them. And now the bombing has stopped. OK, there is still activity from them, but only against each other, they are no longer killing UK security forces or civilians.
As for the second comment, well we've been here before on other threads. It is extremely unpleasant to see someone die this way, but then it is extremely unpleasant to watch anyone die anyway, unless they shot through the head or strapped to a large explosive device! (I don't mean it's pleasant to watch them that way, just that ending a human life requires a violent act that will result in alot of suffering for the victim).
The fact that we are able to see it so readily, that they advertise their brutality is what makes it so abhorrent to us. Make no mistake, Iraqis will have suffered equally gruesome deaths at the hands of coalition forces, but they cover it up. It makes it no less unpleasant.
Personally, I wouldn't go out there for all the tea in China, but some do, either for financial gain, or because they really want to help.
For the latter, they deserve some respect.
Geezer
Firstly, you cannot wipe them all out. Islamic fundamentalism relies heavily on martyrdom, and uses Jihad to persuade those likely to be sympathetic to their cause to join.
The more you kill, the more you create. It's a downward spiral that just results in more death and suffering, for both sides.
In the end, there has to be a dialogue. We did not wipe out the IRA, we came to the negotiating table with them. And now the bombing has stopped. OK, there is still activity from them, but only against each other, they are no longer killing UK security forces or civilians.
As for the second comment, well we've been here before on other threads. It is extremely unpleasant to see someone die this way, but then it is extremely unpleasant to watch anyone die anyway, unless they shot through the head or strapped to a large explosive device! (I don't mean it's pleasant to watch them that way, just that ending a human life requires a violent act that will result in alot of suffering for the victim).
The fact that we are able to see it so readily, that they advertise their brutality is what makes it so abhorrent to us. Make no mistake, Iraqis will have suffered equally gruesome deaths at the hands of coalition forces, but they cover it up. It makes it no less unpleasant.
Personally, I wouldn't go out there for all the tea in China, but some do, either for financial gain, or because they really want to help.
For the latter, they deserve some respect.
Geezer
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But it wouldn't, would it? You may kill whatever his name is in Fallujah, but someone will just take his place. Even if you nuked Fallujah and made it uninhabitable, they would just go somewhere else.
There is an endless supply of these people waiting to fill the gaps made by those who become 'martyrs'.
That's why the Yanks lost in Vietnam, and they will get a bloody nose in Iraq, they cannot fight on these terms.
Geezer
There is an endless supply of these people waiting to fill the gaps made by those who become 'martyrs'.
That's why the Yanks lost in Vietnam, and they will get a bloody nose in Iraq, they cannot fight on these terms.
Geezer
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But Fallujah is their stronghold. No where else in Iraq do they have such an area where they rule and the troops can't touch them. Hence flatten them while they are holed up there they can't go anywhere. Even if more pop up else where they wont haver a stronghold to establish themselves in. I understand fully what you are saying and agree generally but at the moment Fallujah is a massive problem, the Yanks have already tried taking it with troops and tanks and failed miserably, now its time to retaliate with something far stronger that will not be beaten off - carpet bombing! Fallujah has got to be resolved before progress can be made, talks will not resolve Fallujah, only brute force will, sadly.
#49
In the end, there has to be a dialogue. We did not wipe out the IRA, we came to the negotiating table with them.
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That is very true, but you do not necessarily have to negotiate with the likes of Al Qaeda. The underlying problem is Israel/Palestine and US support for them and general poor US foreign policy. If you address those issues, then the terrorists find it more difficult to justify their cause.
Problem is, the Yanks are as stubborn and stupid as the fundamentalists!
Geezer
Problem is, the Yanks are as stubborn and stupid as the fundamentalists!
Geezer
#51
Originally Posted by Geezer
Problem is, the Yanks are as stubborn and stupid as the fundamentalists!
#52
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And I suppose you would consider someone who sawed off an innocent mans head with a bowie knife to be a freedom fighter would you? You call that "fighting back?" Don't make me laugh.
That's allright then, as long as Al-Quada only has access to chemical and biological weapons and not nuclear, I'll sleep soundly at night. Your naivete is astounding.
Scott8629, that was in response to another post. Would you defend the actions of Iraqis the way you do British soldiers? After all they've seen some pretty horrific things as well, like their loved ones blown to pieces by coalition bombs and bullets. And they are in their own country.
And just to put things into perspective, these horrific executions are being carried out by a handful of people in a nation of millions. Yet, every Iraqi gets tarred with the same brush, but never the other way around.
You still miss the fact that Iraqis were never involved in all this before you attacked their country. You invade their country then wonder where all these terrorists have come from.
#53
I think when they when they talk about infidels Iwan, its a term to whip up the followers that they are going to use to carry out the terrorist actions. Rather like our leader now telling us that the first war in Iraq was to wipe out Saddam instead of what he actually told us, ie to stop the threat at that moment of WMDs. And that we are now in a second war to fight the terrorists. When did the first war stop and the second one begin I wonder. The fighting has never stopped, just escalated!
Its all a big bluster changing the reasoning to suit the happenings of the moment as their earlier statements are proved to be untrue and new things happen which were never considered in the first place. Just another example of the gross incompetence which surrounds this sorry lot at the top.
The fundamentalists are after world power, that is what drives them and the only way to win is to cut off the head of the snake. Trouble is, I think that our own leaders have got the same ambitions. That is when our problems will really start.
Les
Its all a big bluster changing the reasoning to suit the happenings of the moment as their earlier statements are proved to be untrue and new things happen which were never considered in the first place. Just another example of the gross incompetence which surrounds this sorry lot at the top.
The fundamentalists are after world power, that is what drives them and the only way to win is to cut off the head of the snake. Trouble is, I think that our own leaders have got the same ambitions. That is when our problems will really start.
Les
#54
Agree totally. I had no problem with Blair sending us into Iraq again. I just wish he'd been honest and stuck to the line that it was a continuation of the 1990/1 hostilities, and a consequence of Saddams numerous breaches of the ceasefire agreement that he signed.
Why he felt the need to whip up spurious scare stories about the imminent threat of WMD attacks on the UK i don't know. As far as i could see they had ample grounds for going in, legally in terms of existing UN resolutions, and morally for humanitarian reasons.
Personally i think we should totally pull out of the 'helping others' business and look after our own. Spending the money we would have spent on aid and military action on fortifying the UKs borders and stepping up our security and intelligence gathering in a big way.
I'm sure that would be better for us, and less offensive to the fundamentalists.
Why he felt the need to whip up spurious scare stories about the imminent threat of WMD attacks on the UK i don't know. As far as i could see they had ample grounds for going in, legally in terms of existing UN resolutions, and morally for humanitarian reasons.
Personally i think we should totally pull out of the 'helping others' business and look after our own. Spending the money we would have spent on aid and military action on fortifying the UKs borders and stepping up our security and intelligence gathering in a big way.
I'm sure that would be better for us, and less offensive to the fundamentalists.
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Ordinarily i'd agree, it workked with the IRA because a compromise was achievable. But the problem with the extreme moslem fundamentalists (and Al Qaida as a whole) is that their long term goal is to wipe out the infidels, full stop. Where do you start negotiating?
Fallujah is a Sunni stronghold and nothing to do with Islamic fundamentalism. These people don't want the USA in their land, it's that simple. Either they submit or we wipe them out, is that the solution here? The US has already dropped numerous bombs on Fallujah for months killing civilians and it has only got worse.
#56
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Fallujah is a Sunni stronghold and nothing to do with Islamic fundamentalism
#57
Originally Posted by gsm1
Did I say that? No, so don't put words in my mouth.
And I suppose you would consider someone who sawed off an innocent mans head with a bowie knife to be a freedom fighter would you?
Originally Posted by gsm1
Speaks the man of real world knowledge.
You're more likely to be run over by a bus than ever meet a terrorist let alone be killed by one
#58
prehaps the answer is to use what they fear most?
it,s evident that talking is not going to work, despite what some of the posts on here would believe.
it would appear that they follow there learned teachings to the letter and believe that all there killing is approved by there god, and all will be forgiven..
then prehaps we should adopt the same attitude,, we dont kill them, but expose them to there worst fears, and in doing so make them lepers within there own faction..
after all if there that contaminated!! they wont be acceptable to anyone
Mart
it,s evident that talking is not going to work, despite what some of the posts on here would believe.
it would appear that they follow there learned teachings to the letter and believe that all there killing is approved by there god, and all will be forgiven..
then prehaps we should adopt the same attitude,, we dont kill them, but expose them to there worst fears, and in doing so make them lepers within there own faction..
after all if there that contaminated!! they wont be acceptable to anyone
Mart
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Originally Posted by gsm1
You invade their country then wonder where all these terrorists have come from.