dharbige

Can the police really go to somebody's house and arrest them? Do they not have to have some kind of warrant? Or am I just showing my ignorance of the way things work in the UK?

tiggers

Cheers ub, it is appreciated. As I say I know exactly what you mean and if it were anyone else than this guy I'd be looking for some excuses.

hedgehog

The police can enter your house, using minimum necessary force, to make an arrest and don't need a warrant to do that. They can also search the house while they are there, again without a warrant. They only need a warrant if looking for evidence of a crime that they haven't yet nicked you for, if they are in your house nicking you then they can have a look around while they are there. In many cases they may get a warrant to cover their backs should the court case and evidence get complex but it is not necessary in terms of just getting access. Hence why they could also remove this chaps car without paperwork.

That is the bottom line as i understand it but there are a range of laws covering this area which are huge in their scope and beyond me to comprehend. Indeed the details are almost certainly not known to most police officers or general solicitors and this is why you can often escape on a "technical" matter that is discovered by a specialist in a given area of law. The police know little more about the law then you or i, to be honest.

chris's scooby

If nothing else the Copper was being stupid standing in the road, in the dark without any high-vis gear on.

Can there be a case, if your friend didn't hit him and the policeman didn't have to dive out of the way to avoid him, how can they prove that there was ever any intent?

A friend of mines dad did once hit a policeman who was standing in the road trying to stop him. He got 8 years for attempted murder.

tiggers

Well I'd like to agree with you, but how has it even got this far?

tiggers

Anyway further update for those of you still reading (thanks by the way). He has been told he now can't have his car back until Monday morning although it has been authorised for release then.

So in the end they will have impounded his car for a total of 60 hours and for what?

Regards,

tiggers.

hedgehog

Clearly his solicitor will need to ask questions about the impounding of the car, and the legality of so doing. To be honest I believe it was legal for them to do it as they may consider it material evidence. However, the only reason I can see for them considering it material evidence is if someone claimed that the car would hold evidence relating to the case. Now, as your friend didn't hit or touch anyone with the car, according to him, and if he openly admitted to being the driver there would be no need to retain the car as it just wouldn't show anything other than that it was a car. This would lead me to believe that either the police officer claimed that he came in contact with the car or that they claimed that they were trying to stop your friend to search the car because they believed that he was in possession of something illegal. They would have to keep a record of this stop and search and his solicitor should be able to get that to see if they had due cause.

While that may be worrying the positive side of the coin is that if the car was likely to be part of the evidence then it would seem highly unlikely that it would be released before any court case. If your friend didn't deny driving it then clearly they are not just finger printing it to prove that he had used it. I would also think it unlikely that they would release it if they found something illegal within the car, though can't be totally sure on that count.

So, my guess is that the car has come up clean. Perhaps they want to run a sniffer dog over it or something, perhaps there is an internal investigation going on into a particular officer or it's maybe just that in such cases where an officer claims an assault some senior bod who is off all weekend has to sign the final release documents.

Either way there are still a few things that don't quite add up in all of this. Were the officers who came to his door armed? If not then it is likely they didn't think he was carrying a weapon or likely to be a terrorist threat so that narrows the field a little. If your mate is telling the whole truth and nothing but (i.e. there are no little bits left out) and his car is coming back on Monday then I think he is probably in the clear. However, if they decide to fight it to save face then he could still have a battle on his hands.

drjsd

Just one point from reading this.

Can the plod just go into your house and arrest you in this case without a warrant?

Tiggs

if i rob a bank and make my getaway to my house....do you think they can come in after me? that may answer your question!

tiggers

hedgehog,

Thanks for the post. Like you say some things don't seem to add up with this and as I have said elsewhere on this thread if it was just about anyone else I know I'd say I wasn't being told the whole truth.

The police who came to his house were not armed and he didn't resist being arrested. The officer was definitely not struck by the car and he admitted immediately to being the driver of the vehicle.

My only hope is the car doesn't come back with any dents in the appropriate places if you see what I mean. That may sound far fetched, but the whole thing is a little surreal so I'm not expecting it to get any better.

I have had significant problems with the police on several occasions in my past and this has left me highly distrustful of their methods on occasion and I'm hoping and praying that this one turns out OK.

Regards,

tiggers.

hedgehog

drjsd - see my previous post on the rights of the police to enter your house and make an arrest. The bottom line is that they can enter and they can search while they are there.

Think of it in terms of them chasing a drug dealer. If they had to sit outside while they got permission to enter he'd spend his time disposing of the evidence, we'd be the first to complain. If they couldn't search when they entered then his housemates would spend the time after they left to get a warrant disposing of the evidence, again we'd complain about police being stupid. So, although it seems harsh when it's you on the receiving end there is some element of common sense.

Unfortunately I know what you mean tiggers, and my position is always that I wouldn't trust the police to sit the right way around on a toilet. They work as a team and they lie as a team. However, they are not all bad and in this case you have to be pretty hopeful that the problem will just mysteriously go away. In saying that I wouldn't let such a hope slow me down on my drive to the solicitors office on Monday morning.

tiggers

LOL - Too right - he'll probably get done for speeding on the way there (after he gets his car back of course )

Regards,

tiggers.

fatherpierre

Yes.

S17 PACE 1984

yoza

Ive been searching for a news article after reading this post, maybe someone with more than two brain cells can find it for me.

It was about a driver who ran a copper over.

The copper was holding a hand held radar gun, and the driver said in his defense...I thought it was a gun, so I drove at him.....

He got off with it...

drjsd

Fair enough, perhaps I've seen too much **** tv!

At least I'll know next time I rob a bank...

Jerome

I remember that case, but that it was a woman who ran the copper over.

tiggers

And the plot thickens.

OK my mate was told yesterday he could have his car back at 9am this morning. The desk sergeant at the police station he was taken to on Friday told him a fax had been sent authorising its release.

This morning he called the pound where it is located just to confirm he could come and get it and was told that they now wanted to perform a further investigation on it and that they would contact him later today.

This is beginning to sound rather dodgy to me or am I being too suspicious.

My mate is now off to see a solicitor.

Regards,

tiggers.

Iwan

Hopefully common sense will prevail.

A bloke i used to work with was being ejected from a nightclub once for being drunk/rowdy. The bouncers threw him out and a couple of coppers tried to calm him down outside and send hime off home. In the scuffle the bloke tripped over the kerb and fell onto one of the coppers and broke his arm (he weighed about 19st!!). He then spent the night in the cells and was told he'd be charged with assaulting a copper and causing ABH.

Next morning in the cold light of day, the copper with the broken arm had calmed down and accepted that it was just an accident and the guy hadn't meant to fall on him. He'd been drunk, it was dark and he'd simply tripped over the kerb. He got nothing more than a verbal telling off. Lucky for him the copper was an honest bloke, otherwise he'd have been right up the creek without a paddle. If they'd wanted to 'fit him up good and proper' it would have been easy.

tiggers

Iwan,

Yeah that's what I'd hoped for with this one. However, in the cold light of day (in fact three days) they've still go the car and are still 'investigating' hence I'm not sure common sense is going to prevail, not just yet anyway.

Regards,

tiggers.

yoza

Did he have illegally spaced, or slightly small characters on his number plate ?

This would explain it all.....

I think your mate will not be charged with any assault offence, but he will definitely find he has something wrong with his car.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

It never fails to amaze me ( ) just how many people there are in this country who don't trust the police.

I wonder why that is?

Let us know what the solicitor says, the fact that they are hanging onto the car, even after it was supposed to have been released, is very dodgy sounding:

Alcazar

tiggers

Cheers yoza, can always rely on you for a laugh Know what you mean about there being something wrong with the car though.

Alcazar, as soon as I know more I will post it up here and yes the retaining the vehicle for this long has me worried too.

tiggers.

r32

Tell your partner to get the best brief they can, these policemen will stitch him up like a kipper. No doubt without any witnesses (might be worth checking if there were others in the street that may have seen the incident) they will lie to get the conviction. Happened to me but I had a witness so was cleared ..........

r32

Get your Partner to put in an official complaint against the officer concerned about the way he was treated, and the jumping into the road without a high vis vest or some form of easily indentied police wear ...... might help.

G-STAR

Do we have a further update?

tiggers

Update - not much to report at the moment.

I haven't been able to speak to him properly yet to find out how it went with speaking to a solicitor, but will do today.

I do know the police STILL have his car. In the latest comment from them they said they would be finished with it Monday pm, but they weren't. He has now been told to wait for their call.

As I write they have now had the car 84 hours, a full 60 hours since Scenes of Crime finished with it.

I will let you know more when I have more,

tiggers.

P.S. It would be good to get some police officers' views on this. I know there are some on the board so any chance you could chip in with your thoughts?

Dazza01

i doubt very much they will,

all for and one for all if u know what i mean

i would deffo file a complaint against the officer/s involved and get the local press onto it, they love stories like this, might even get picked up by the national's ??

hope he gets it sorted soon tho

Spoon

They could well have been short on cars for the Forces track day over the weekend?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I think your friend might be well advised to ask to go and SEE his car.

Last time anyone I knew had a car not come back from somewhere it was supposed to, on time, it turned out it had been damaged and was away at a bodyshop being sectretly repaired:

Not that the police would stoop to that, but.......................
Alcazar

yoza

Yeah right, just as if.......



If it dropped off the back of the transporter, and bent in half, they would say.....

" It was like that when we picked it up. "

Then you would rant and rave....

And the coppers mate would say....." Hey, are they going to believe US, or YOU ?."

Been there, done that......