davegtt

u think? didnt think trogs who deal drugs etc payed tax?

DISIPLINE and RESPECT thats the key words here people, if they aint drummed into a kid at a young age then they will think the world should respect them before its the other way around..... they need a good crack IMO, never did me any harm (well it did at the time but it taught me a lesson not to **** around again )

ajm

They should also raise the limit for abortions so they can be aborted any time up to the age of 12.... that'll learn them!

blip

Yeah same here. The thought of trying to raise well-behaved kids when they spend their lives surrounded by chav-brats at school and the resultant peer-pressure to behave the same way, not to mention absorbing the wrong messages from TV/radio/computer games/etc. has zero appeal for me.

Unfortunately my partner's bodyclock is now telling her we must have kids soon

TopBanana

Spot on.

Jo Peters

Just for info. my friend has twin boys - one of them screams and yells at the top of his voice, he throws a fit at the supermarket and sometimes lays on the floor kicking his legs and screaming at his mum. The other one is quiet as anything, doesn't say a word, won't even look up at you when you speak to him. Their problem ...... they are both autistic - at either end of the scale.

I know that this is rare and we probably can't put most of the cases of children's bad behaviour down to autism, but spare a thought for people like my friend - it is hard enough already, without those people judging her or her parenting skills on something they know nothing about

jasey

Fcukit - oops that's tourettes .

Most people can tell the difference between an Autistic child with their loving parents and a little tw@t with his trailer trash guidance councillors .

Markus

Have to agree with the "if they can't behave, the can't go out" rule.

Also agree with the chav and the mollycoddle thing.

I don't have kids, but one day (hopefully) I will. I know I'm going to be a right bastid of a father, simply as I will not tollerate misbehaviour. Some say "you've got to come to a comprimise with the kids" umm, sorry, no. If they think screaming will get them something, they are wrong, well, insofar it won't get them what they want, but it will get them a slap.

If they misbehave then they will be verbally warned and if that has no action, they will be smacked. I'm not talking about a fist in the face or anything like that, but a slap on the behind or the wrist.

My parents were somewhat strict and it's never caused me any problems, I know right from wrong, and that is something I will pass down to my kids, and hopefully they will to theirs.

The only problem with approaching parents and asking them to sort it out is that you'll either get told to **** off, or worse, a smack in the mouth from some chav.

Aaquil

MJM

I have to disagree with you. I know two coulples who have two right brats as boys both of them mollycoddled and said statements like 'I don't believe in hitting children.' We are not talking about hitting them black and blue.

I agree that as soon as they can communicate you should explain why they should not do a certain thing but if they persist, another nice request, a stern request, shouting request, you're gonna get a whack request, whack applied. It usually gets to a stern request at the worst of times with my son. These brats are nasty, rude, bully kids that just need someone to dscipline them properly. The mum of one of them is my wifes friend. They go to the same school my wife gets a lift with them. He (the brat) is one year older than my son (He is 5 and a half my son is just 4) there was a phase when he used to pick on my son and upset him they are meant to be friends (What's that all about?). One day the brat got up in the car as they were getting in and started hitting my son, my son got up and started giving as good as he got (hooray!!!) We took him to 'BIG W' after that so he could pick a toy and told him you never hit someone unless they start with you and if they do GIVE 'EM HELL TO PAY (I HATE BULLIES). Wierd the brat stopped after that...he screams, has tantrums and doesn't listen to his mum and dad half the time. Thank God my son is nothing like him.

Parents are to blame in 99% of cases. Some children are just well behaved by their character because they are quiet. If one of my sons (twins or not) was good and the other one was a pain...the one that was a pain would get it taken out of him by words or other means.

There is NO EXCUSE for badly behaved children.

Aaquil...Rant over.

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

aaquil

"There is NO EXCUSE for badly behaved children"..... errrrr !!! we all behave badly at times !!

I have two kids (8 and 6).......at times they behave badly, at one Scooby meet my boy thought that his sister had wiped a year's worth of Pokemon training from his Gameboy !! Major Tantrum.

Back in 1977 some ****** (pissed) drove into the back of my hand painted brown mini van MBT135F . The F reg mini van version with the windows that slid and the door opened with a bit of string. !! Major tantrum. I hit the silly tw@t

So what's the difference ?? He was 6 years old and I'm in charge of the healthcare need for a half a million people.l

Kids misbehave !!

TopBanana

If your children truly respect you, you will never have to resort to smacking.

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

but you have to have it in your armamenterium, if never used.

Aaquil

Midlife...

Are you going to continue to misunderstand my statements? I think it is quite clear I WROTE:

"There is NO EXCUSE for badly behaved children." Which means there is no excuse for general bad behaviour from children. "...badly behaved children." Are children that are badly behaved most of the time and for this there is no excuse. Isolated cases are fair enough as you stated but most of the time then I am sorry that is UNACCEPTABLE unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Aaquil.

Aaquil

TopBanana...my son respects and loves me and his mum but sometimes he does have to have a smack on the hand if he has gone too far with his misbehaviour without extenuating circumstances or excuse of course. It is however something that happens very, very infrequently and when it is needed it is very difficult to do.

Strangers and friends always comment on how well behaved and 'mature' (possibly not the correct phrase) he is for his age. He was 4 years old at the end of May.

Aaquil.

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Aaquil

.. Hmmm.

born in the 50's and spent my youth on bomb sites (still there), but before that I ran wild in a britain as a young kid.........

no plod in cars, crisps with a small blue packet, Honda 50's (the rich kids), Ben sherman shirts, sharpened aluminium combs, home made bangers, Aztec Bars, black and white telly, ............. There was absolutely no excuse for me to be badly behaved; but I did.

Just wait till he gets older...... LOL

scoobyangel

everyone parents in different ways, there are no "right" ways of parenting.

i became a mother 20months ago... my boy is a lively little soul, but he is also very well mannered and mostly well behaved, though, when he is over tired he is prone to a tantrum, though this has only happened once in public, and i delt with it by removing him from theplace we were, he had no treats, was not spoken to or had any eye contact or attention, he was simply removed and strapped in his car seat until he calmed down. he has not lost it in public since!

my partner was all for the "smacking" rules, until he saw the outcome of what he did.... my boy is very intelligent and needs to be shown something only once before he can do it himself... anyway, his father used to smack him for doing things he shouldnt of been doing, until i told him how our boy was then hitting other children, his fathers responce was "tell him off and give him a slap".... soooo.... now its ok for me to go round hitting, but not for him?? hmm... how confusing is that for an 16month old to understand??? if you hit a child all it does is reinforce that smacking is ok, and most likely your child will then go on to smack others as as far as he/she is concerned smacking is ok because mummy and daddy do it!
same with bitting, ALL toddlers bite at some stage... most people i have spoken to have said "bite him back"!!!!... no way was i going to bite my son, so i didnt, i gave no reaction to him when he bit me, no matter how hard it was... he did it just 3 time, and has never done it since, whereas my friends child bites regularly, and her mother bites her back.... reinforcing that bitting is ok again!

just give it some thought before you go shouting off that a smack never did me any harm, my kids will be smacked... etc etc....until you have children you will not know how you will bring them up, i was always saying slap them, a smack never did me any harm, til i sat down and actually thought about how i was a child, and spoke to my parents about it too, my recolection that it did me no harm was incorrect... i was a horrible child, bitting kicking screaming hitting......

jasey

No - But there are plenty of wrong ways .

scoobyangel

very true.... but what one person see's as "wrong" will not be in another's eyes!

this is a debate that will rage for all human lifetimes...

jasey

The evidence speaks for itself. With the exception of Genuine Illness any little bastid that clearly doesn't know how to conduct him/herself properly is that way because his/her parent(s) have failed him/her.

This is not a matter for debate - it is a matter of fact !

This doesn't cover tantrums - obviously they happen and have to be dealt with .

Jza

Brilliantly said mate..... i feel exactly the same way..... but get told im a ******* for saying it... i have a 3 year old nephew who screams/kicks/beats up other younger kids whos parents say "dont do that darling" as he carries on regardless. Makes my blood boil... will NEVER happen with my kids...

At the end of the day i believe the child isnt the problem - its the parents

Jza

Jza

Markus

I know what you mean Jza, I do feel like some kinda evil sadist, but I'm sorry, I don't want badly behaved children. I *know* they will kick up a fuss sometimes, that's normal.

Here's an example. When I was young (pre-school) I was a complete and utter ****. Smashed up ornaments, crockery, other things. Trashed the house. A total utter nightmare. I *think* there might have been some behaviourist involved at some point, but I can't be sure. Anyway, my parents did not mollycoddle me, I got my fair share of smacks, and was sent to my room, and no ammount of foot stamping and screaming would effect my parents (must be where I get it from ).
When I went to school, things changed. Guess I just needed some focus.

OK, so I've been mothered quite a bit, and did leave a fairly sheltered life, and could, if I had wanted, got away with a heck of a lot of stuff, and been a real bastid. But I wasn't. Why not? because my parents had parented me. Given me values and shown me right from wrong.

Just don't get me onto the "let's ban smacking" thing, simply as I'll smack the crap out of some fool who reckons they can bring up a child without any form of physical discipline. grrrrrrr

the moose

Sorry, but that's just paranoia.

You might like to think that this is possible, but show me an example of it, even one, and I'll start to listen. The reality is that kids get smacked; some oppose this - as some oppose abortion, housing benefits for the poor, and the use of animal testing - but they are in the minority, and the effect they have on the average Joe is marginal. We vote with our feet, and we don't want to ban smacking. Having said that, I have intervened when someone was smacking their kid in an OTT manner - beating children up and screaming at them is never justified.

Perhaps I live a charmed life in a lovely middle-class paradise, but it's just possible that we Brits like to moan about how repressive the state is, how awful life really is, and just how our freedoms are being eroded, whilst never once considering just how lucky we actually are, and examining the realitiy behing these so-called truths. Many are distortions and Chinese whispers, and indicate more that the British press love to have a chance to beat the government (any government) up than that we genuinely have an overly intrusive public sector.

And where do you draw the line? If you were a doctor and saw clear signs of abuse, why wouldn't you report it? Surely you'd want that child to have a better standard of living?

We're the same people who, totally irrationally, bemoan the fact that our kids can't play outside anymore "because of paedophiles" despite the fact that the number of child-related offences committed by strangers has remained at an astonishingly low (and static) level for 40 years.

We bitch about "the terrible PC culture", yet how many people have tried to put in claims for broken paving stones/whiplash/discrimination? These claims, and the fear of them, are what leads schools to (misguidedly, in my view) ban the playing of conkers unless safety goggles are worn, or stop kids climbing trees.

A little known fact, however, is that there's been a steady decline in the number of children killed/injured in non-motor accidents over the last 30-40 years. This is because children are discouraged from going off, say, swimming by themselves, or climbing big trees, as used to be considered absolutely normal. We have to ask whether the restrictions of freedom for kids/parents is worth it in terms of lives saved. Having seen the effect of a firework exploding in somone's face (a lad I was at school with), I'd have to say that in the main, they are. Some go too far, and should be challenged.

In summary, we seem to be all to easily guided by the bad news culture. Slow news day? Just post up something (goggles/conkers) and it then gives endless pundits a chance to whine on about "the good old days, I remember when you could blah blah, it's all the fault of Europe .....", and generally talk about how they'd do things better. It sells papers, and creates a climate of mistrust, but achieves little else, and certainly doesn't give a balanced view.

As usual, be guided by Billy Bragg

"When you wake up to the fact
That your paper is Tory
Just remember, there are two sides to every story"

Drunken Bungle Whore

At least you could leave the cafe - on an airoplane at 33,000 feet things are a little more tricky..... Any suggestions for that one...?

MJW

Imagine you're f***ing your missus, and someone comes up, taps you on the shoulder while you're in the vinegar strokes - 'Scuse me mate, you're doing it all wrong, you should f**k her like this ..' You'd be pretty pi**ed off wouldn't you, probably to the extent of telling the person to f**k off or battering them unconscious. I can imagine that's what it's like when Joe Public tells you you're not bringing your kids up correctly.

To the bystander, the 'odd tantrum' is often misconstrued as bad parenting, as the snap judgements posted in this thread show ! So how do you tell the difference ?
All kids, whether they're brought up by Daz and Shaz McChav, or by Dr. Christopher Green (author of 'Toddler Taming') can have a strop no matter how good your parenting skills.

I certainly don't condone bad behaviour in kids, no matter what age, and mine get a warning / denial of privileges and then a smack as a last resort but I think to judge parents' abilities based on seeing one act of bad behaviour on a shopping trip is wrong.

Hehe, when our youngest was 8 months old we flew from Gatwick to Singapore - it unfortunately happened to be the exact time her first teeth popped through. Not a pleasant experience, but sometimes there is *nothing* you can do about it (when they're too small for parachutes) !

scoobyangel

you are here saying that these kids are buggers all the time... what if those kids were normally really well behaved but through whatever reasons (boredom/tiredness/fright.. whatever) were acting in a way that you saw as unacceptable... i wouldnt take my child on a plane yet he is too young and i think i would frighten him and be boring, plus i cannot deal with people staring at me IF he did kick off because of that...
like i said my child has only ever once (so far) created a scene in public, and i had people looking at me and judging me and passing comment on my skills as a parent, obviously they thought he acted this way all the time... this put the fear of god up me about taking him ANYWHERE again because i didnt want to be made to feel that way again, it now takes me alot of courage to go to public places for a meal or whatever, even though he is good as gold.... all because of a few ignorant tossers who feel they can judge a child and its parents based on 5mins of bad behaviour.

i have no doubt in my mind that ALL kids play their parents up at some point, and often in public, as i am SURE we ALL did when we were kids.... dont tar everyone with the same brush when you see it happen, not everyone is a crap parent with a child that has no discapline or respect.

ajm

Yeah but the fact that some bloke is crap at ******** his missus isn't going to detract from anyone's enjoyment of a quiet pie and a pint in the local! There would be no reason to go and tell him he was a crap ****!

It is the fact that their child's behaviour is having a negative impact upon all us around them that gives us the right to have a word, and the parents should be in a position to appreciate that.

scoobyangel

if you think that is so then the next time you are picking your nose, talking on your mobile in public, dropping litter, belching, talking louder than needed, laughing too loudly when i am trying to have a quiet pint etc etc etc... you wont mind if i have a word with you about your social skills that are having a negative impact on my enjoyment???????

ajm

I would most likely be a bit defensive through embarrassment but if I was doing any of those obnoxious things that was annoying the people around me then why should I be surprised if someone had a word? Why would any reasonable person be surprised if they were annoying someone and that person complained as a result?

scoobyangel

cool...


stop posting, you are annoying me!



(joke btw)!!

ajm

LOL!

I never said I would stop.... just that I wouldn't be surprised!

Aaquil

Midlife...I am just trying to have a friendly discussion with you. I am not looking for a fight at all. If you want to just disagree with me for the sake of it I think I will leave this thread as it will be better all round.

I totally accept what you said about: "Just wait till he gets older...... LOL" I CAN'T WAIT...NOT.

Aaquil